BASE3 WIFI QUESTION ON THE Rev/Fwd Button????

When you say you "program an engine in" do mean you've FULLY programmed it into the Base3 roster, or do you mean you've entered an ID and selected an engine as you wouldve on a Cab1 or 1L?  Reason i ask is because i ran into erratic running issues doing the latter. True the Base3/Cab3 would recognize a pre-programmed engine but until i entered in the correct info into the engine roster (i.e. the control system, sound system, and engine type (steam, etc)), my control buttons were not functioning as expected. And beware if you enter in the wrong control system, some buttons (like steam blowdown) can have way different responses (like i sent my engine full throttle down a dead end track and almost off the benchwork).

@Farmall-Joe posted:

When you say you "program an engine in" do mean you've FULLY programmed it into the Base3 roster, or do you mean you've entered an ID and selected an engine as you wouldve on a Cab1 or 1L?  Reason i ask is because i ran into erratic running issues doing the latter. True the Base3/Cab3 would recognize a pre-programmed engine but until i entered in the correct info into the engine roster (i.e. the control system, sound system, and engine type (steam, etc)), my control buttons were not functioning as expected. And beware if you enter in the wrong control system, some buttons (like steam blowdown) can have way different responses (like i sent my engine full throttle down a dead end track and almost off the benchwork).

NOT my Question!!!   I'm talking about just running the Engine in a Forwartd Direction and you want to "REVERSE "it!!!

Thanks

FREDSTRAINS

Sorry FRED!!!!!!!  But it may be your question.  The reason i stated is in my reply. I.e. if you dont enter the engine info correctly into the engine roster, when you select that engine (which you can select an engine ID with no roster info present), you wont necessarily get the expected control button responses.  It happened to me. Yes, it happened with my direction button.  If this is not your case, well, then it isnt your case. Maybe someone else can help.

@Farmall-Joe posted:

Sorry FRED!!!!!!!  But it may be your question.  The reason i stated is in my reply. I.e. if you dont enter the engine info correctly into the engine roster, when you select that engine (which you can select an engine ID with no roster info present), you wont necessarily get the expected control button responses.  It happened to me. Yes, it happened with my direction button.  If this is not your case, well, then it isnt your case. Maybe someone else can help.

Its pretty straight Forward.................

I'm going forward, but want to REVERSE the Direction.  I push the Fwd/Rev BUTTON!!!   The Color changes, to Green, but the Engine does not stop!!!  Ifv I increase the Throttle a little, then back to "0" , then it stops and goes into REVERSE!!!

Is this normal!!!,...... Or it doesn't make any differencewhat speed I'm going, it stops, goes down to "0" and goes in the other direction!!!

Fredstrains

I dont believe it is normal.  When i have an engine moving and hit the direction button, the engine stops, throttle moves to 0 on its own.  Then i move the throttle and the engine goes the other direction. This of course, after i corrected the info in the engine roster...

@Farmall-Joe posted:

I dont believe it is normal.  When i have an engine moving and hit the direction button, the engine stops, throttle moves to 0 on its own.  Then i move the throttle and the engine goes the other direction. This of course, after i corrected the info in the engine roster.

What info is that???  What do I have to change & where ?!

Fred

@Fredstrains posted:

You might have a very Valid Point!  I will check another Engine tomorrow & see if it does the same thing !!’

Thanks ,

Fredstrains

@Fredstrains posted:

Fred Go here https://control.lionel.com/docs/eng-selection/ and look for the following headings. Follow directions under each if you havent done so yet..

Choosing Engine Settings, Road Name & Number, Motive Type, Control Type , Sound Type

@Farmall-Joe posted:

Fred Go here https://control.lionel.com/docs/eng-selection/ and look for the following headings. Follow directions under each if you havent done so yet..

Choosing Engine Settings, Road Name & Number, Motive Type, Control Type , Sound Type

Joe,

Thanks, will do !!

@Fredstrains posted:

Did some Testing last nite on "THREE" LEGACY  Engines Using BASE 3/  WIFI CAB3 App. They ALL responded the Same!!  If I am going in the FORWARD Directiom and the "DIRECTION" Button is "BLUE", I Push the "DiRECTION" Button, the Button turns RED, but the Engine stays the same speed and does not REVERSE.  NOW, If I change the Speed Slider to "0" and then push the "DIRECTION" Button, the Button turns Red and the Engine Reverses when i piush the Slider.

DON't Get it!!!   Is this normal ? \

HELP,

FREDSTRAINS   

Fred, I had a run session tonight with BASE3, CAB3, CAB2 & CAB1L. We were able to run Legacy & TMCC engines with the CAB3 but did not have the trouble with the Direction button as you did.  We were running Android devices only so I can't speak if you issue is only with Apple devices.  The CAB2 seemed to run everything without any problems either.

Our issue is with the CAB1L and it's interaction with the CAB2 & CAB3 or the lack thereof. The CAB2 & 3 communicate with each other, so if you adjust speed on one device, that change is reflected on the other. Now when the CAB1L issued a speed command the engine will slow to speed step one and the CAB2/3 is non the wiser as to what just happened.  If you go back to the CAB2 or 3 to adjust the speed, the engine will jump back to the speed previously indicated by the CAB2 & 3.

@H1000 posted:

Fred, I had a run session tonight with BASE3, CAB3, CAB2 & CAB1L. We were able to run Legacy & TMCC engines with the CAB3 but did not have the trouble with the Direction button as you did.  We were running Android devices only so I can't speak if you issue is only with Apple devices.  The CAB2 seemed to run everything without any problems either.

Our issue is with the CAB1L and it's interaction with the CAB2 & CAB3 or the lack thereof. The CAB2 & 3 communicate with each other, so if you adjust speed on one device, that change is reflected on the other. Now when the CAB1L issued a speed command the engine will slow to speed step one and the CAB2/3 is non the wiser as to what just happened.  If you go back to the CAB2 or 3 to adjust the speed, the engine will jump back to the speed previously indicated by the CAB2 & 3.

My direction control has been fine as well.

As far as using a Cab1L and the Cab2 and Cab3 together,  even Lionel suggested when Legacy came out that you do not mix controls to run engines.  The Cab1L does not receive any speed information back from the Base3 as it is one way communication.  It has no idea what the speed is if you change it on the Cab2 or Cab3.

@MartyE posted:

My direction control has been fine as well.

As far as using a Cab1L and the Cab2 and Cab3 together,  even Lionel suggested when Legacy came out that you do not mix controls to run engines.  The Cab1L does not receive any speed information back from the Base3 as it is one way communication.  It has no idea what the speed is if you change it on the Cab2 or Cab3.

Sorry guys but Fred is correct, there is an issue with the direction button.   It is not consistent, and I have seen the same thing where the color of the button showing the direction does not match what the engine is doing.  Then when you press it back and forth it goes back in sync (or move slider). 

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Sorry guys but Fred is correct, there is an issue with the direction button.   It is not consistent, and I have seen the same thing where the color of the button showing the direction does not match what the engine is doing.  Then when you press it back and forth it goes back in sync (or move slider).

OK thanks.  I wasn't sure what he was getting at.  I'll have to play with it some more and read closer.  Now I see what the issue is.  I think I might have experienced that but it's pretty random at least for me.

@MartyE posted:

OK thanks.  I wasn't sure what he was getting at.  I'll have to play with it some more and read closer.  Now I see what the issue is.  I think I might have experienced that but it's pretty random at least for me.

Yeah, it is random, and you just tap it back and forth again and it will go back in sync and move the engine the correct direction. 

I had an engine (it was actually in the sensor track part of my video).  Where it was going forward, and I tapped the button and it stopped engine and showed it switched to reverse on the app but when I moved the slider it kept going forward.  Then I tapped it again back and forth and it was back in sync and the engine moved in the correct direction.

Something funky going on with the direction button.   It is random when it does it.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Yeah, it is random, and you just tap it back and forth again and it will go back in sync and move the engine the correct direction.

I had an engine (it was actually in the sensor track part of my video).  Where it was going forward, and I tapped the button and it stopped engine and showed it switched to reverse on the app but when I moved the slider it kept going forward.  Then I tapped it again back and forth and it was back in sync and the engine moved in the correct direction.

Something funky going on with the direction button.   It is random when it does it.

Now I have the same thing with Legacy if the engine did not stop for a "click" before I throttled up again.  Maybe Base3 is exaggerating that.  Good to know.  I'll keep an eye out for it.

@MartyE posted:

Now I have the same thing with Legacy if the engine did not stop for a "click" before I throttled up again.  Maybe Base3 is exaggerating that.  Good to know.  I'll keep an eye out for it.

Yes, come to think of it that is true, even with the Cab2, that has happened with the Direction.  And I do the same thing and cycle it again.  But now we are looking at the buttons and seeing colors and text for each direction.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Yes, come to think of it that is true, even with the Cab2, that has happened with the Direction.  And I do the same thing and cycle it again.  But now we are looking at the buttons and seeing colors and text for each direction.

Yes we are a visual species and the indicator says "Go Forward" so it should indeed go forward. 

@MartyE posted:

My direction control has been fine as well.

As far as using a Cab1L and the Cab2 and Cab3 together,  even Lionel suggested when Legacy came out that you do not mix controls to run engines.  The Cab1L does not receive any speed information back from the Base3 as it is one way communication.  It has no idea what the speed is if you change it on the Cab2 or Cab3.

Thanks for the explanation Marty.

We were hoping that as the BASE3 is tracking speed and relaying that info back to the CAB2 & 3, it would be smart enough to restructure the CAB1L track command to the engine to reflect what is known between the CAB2 & 3 and also update the CAB2 & 3 displays.

@MartyE posted:

OK thanks.  I wasn't sure what he was getting at.  I'll have to play with it some more and read closer.  Now I see what the issue is.  I think I might have experienced that but it's pretty random at least for me.

Hey Marty,

This condition on the Reverse Button is "NOT" Rndom on my BASE3.  I checked the Same 3 Engines with CAB1L and CAB2 this morning and they are 100%.  No failures , but when using the BAS3, it fails every time!!!  You have to push the Velocity Lever part way up and then back to "0"!   Then the Direction button works???

FREDSTRAINS

@Fredstrains posted:

Hey Marty,

This condition on the Reverse Button is "NOT" Rndom on my BASE3.  I checked the Same 3 Engines with CAB1L and CAB2 this morning and they are 100%.  No failures , but when using the BAS3, it fails every time!!!  You have to push the Velocity Lever part way up and then back to "0"!   Then the Direction button works???

FREDSTRAINS

Mine is random.

I can also replicate this with Base3/Cab3 (iPhone SE) - thought it was user error at first

@Fredstrains posted:

MARTY (Again),

When I program an Engine in and move it Forward Direction with the Fwd/Rev Button on the BASE3 WIFI and want to rev the Direction, I push the Fwd/Rev Button twds "Rev, it turns RED, But Engine still goes Forward  does not stop or everse Direction !!.  The only way I can Reverse the Direction is push the Speed Lever up part way and back to "0".  "THEN" it goes in Reverse.  What am I missing???

Fredstrains

Hey Marty & "GANG" (And DAVE)

Here is some more info on that REVERSE Button to Control Engines in the BASE3 / CAB3 Program:

I just received a NEW Engine (That was Manufactored within the last 2 years) that I put in my BASE3 Data Base by  running over a  Sensor TRACK.  EVERYTHING operates like it s supposed to USING the CAB3!!  When the Engine is in MOTION Forward and I Push the REV Button, the Engine stops,  Throtle Lever on CAB3 goes Down to ZERO, Lights Reverse and when I start it up again, it goes in REV. Direction!!!  And the same thing happens when I push it again, except in the FORWARD DIrection!!!

Now I compared that with the other Engines in my Roster that were input into my BASE3 Data Base MANUALY with a CAB2, they operate like I originally stated above!!!

NOW theres "FOOD" for thought!!

FREDSTRAINS

Some diagnostics to help explain why the forward/reverse state and speed is not tracked between instances of the Cab3 and Cab2.

I have the LCS WiFi AND the Base3 joined to my home network.  I bring up two instances of the LCS WiFi Monitor program - one connected to the LCS WiFi, and the other to the Base3.

The LCS WiFi interface echoes all commands sent by the base.  Here's a sequence of FWD/REV button press followed by a Roll (speed step=1) press on the Cab2.

   TMCC data: F84300 - ENG 33 Forward Direction
   TMCC data: F84201 - ENG 33 Absolute speed 1
   TMCC data: F843F6 - ENG 33 RS trig: 0x1F6 - Brake Sounds
   TMCC data: F84201 - ENG 33 Absolute speed 1
   TMCC data: F84303 - ENG 33 Reverse Direction

Here's what was captured from the Base3 interface - the direction commands are NOT echoed by the Base3!

   TMCC data: F84201 - ENG 33 Absolute speed 1
   TMCC data: F84201 - ENG 33 Absolute speed 1

Note that any passive instances of the Cab3 will not get the direction commands needed to maintain the direction button state.

On the Cab2 (at speed step 4), a direction change generates these commands

   TMCC data: F84204 - ENG 33 Absolute speed 4
...

   TMCC data: F84300 - ENG 33 Forward Direction
   TMCC data: F842FB - ENG 33 Stop Immediate
   TMCC data: F84300 - ENG 33 Forward Direction

The Stop Immediate command is not echoed by the Base3 so the Cab3 instances will show the previous speed step 4.

The Cab1 (and Cab1L, I presume, as I don't have one available) send the TMCC1 protocol's Toggle Direction and Relative Speed commands.  The Base3 does not echo these.

   TMCC data: FE1081 - (S) FE1081 ENG  33 Toggle Dir
   TMCC data: FE10C6 - (S) FE10C6 ENG  33 Relative speed  1

If the Cab3 is controlling a TMCC loco (roster settings), it will also transmit Relative Speed commands

Dave Olson told me that the Base3 WiFi interface filters commands that it echos for performance reasons.  Observe quilling whistle session commands spewed out on the LCS WiFi interface, multiply those by multiple operators in a club setting, and you'll understand why.  The Base3 echos commands that are needed for Cab3s and other software (i.e. the LCS App) to track engine speed, sensor track info, and switch state.  The current Base3 command filter is too strict and the absence of forward/reverse command, stop immediate, relative speed, and (TBD) other motion-related command echos is an omission.  Lionel needs to correct that.

While we wait for updates to Base3 firmware and the Cab3 App, use a single controller per engine and be patient about some features not working as expected.  (This is a target-rich environment for bug hunting ... just found a new one).

@Fredstrains posted:

Hey Marty & "GANG" (And DAVE)

Here is some more info on that REVERSE Button to Control Engines in the BASE3 / CAB3 Program:

I just received a NEW Engine (That was Manufactored within the last 2 years) that I put in my BASE3 Data Base by  running over a  Sensor TRACK.  EVERYTHING operates like it s supposed to USING the CAB3!!  When the Engine is in MOTION Forward and I Push the REV Button, the Engine stops,  Throtle Lever on CAB3 goes Down to ZERO, Lights Reverse and when I start it up again, it goes in REV. Direction!!!  And the same thing happens when I push it again, except in the FORWARD DIrection!!!

Now I compared that with the other Engines in my Roster that were input into my BASE3 Data Base MANUALY with a CAB2, they operate like I originally stated above!!!

NOW theres "FOOD" for thought!!

FREDSTRAINS

Some "MORE" info.:    I took that Engine above (That will not reverse Direction when you push the DIR Button) on the CAB3.  I removef it from the "ROSTER" on my BASE3.  Then ran it over the SENSOR TRACK to reinput it in My BASE3 Roster!!  Just like the "Lower" one stated above.  NO CHANGE !!  When you pust the DIRECTION BUTTON, it reas the same;  Lights reverse , Direction Button changes color, HOWEVER . it DOES NOT ReverseI,  It reacts the same way as it did before!!!  The only way to reverse it is to pull Speed Lever Down to 0.  Push the Direction Button, and then it reverses

More FOOD for thught!!!

FREDSTRAINS

UPDATE your CAB3 App., and this "PROBLEM" will go away !!

GOOD JOB Lionel,  Marty  &  Dave\

FREDSTRAINS