That actually looks pretty good to me. I've seen much worse than that.
Train Nut posted:That actually looks pretty good to me. I've seen much worse than that.
I agree. It's obviously used but not scorched in the way MTH rope wicking gets because it is threaded up between the twin resistors in their smoke units. In that kind of arrangement it probably does not matter what smoke fluid you use, the wicking will need replacement on a regular basis.
jim sutter posted:I have always felt that the original American Flyer cedar scent was the best.
I do too and back in there day American Flyer had the best smoke units.
I ordered 2 bottles of the Lionel premium pine scent smoke and it really does make the Lionel locomotives smoke 100% better. The pine does smell ok also. I will do like some others posted and use Lionel in my Lionel and MTH in my MTH locomotives.
Even though our train "smoke" is a vapor, and not true smoke, it is mostly a suspension of lipid particles (mineral oil) in a vapor and any solvents, such as petroleum distillates, used to formulate the product, also vaporize as well. Inhaling strong concentrations of such vapor in an unventilated room over a period of time could have some deleterious effects on the lungs, especially on seniors with COPD, emphysema or other forms of pulmonary insufficiency. Might be something to consider!
Tinplate Art posted:Even though our train "smoke" is a vapor, and not true smoke, it is mostly a suspension of lipid particles (mineral oil) in a vapor and any solvents, such as petroleum distillates, used to formulate the product, also vaporize as well. Inhaling strong concentrations of such vapor in an unventilated room over a period of time could have some deleterious effects on the lungs, especially on seniors with COPD, emphysema or other forms of pulmonary insufficiency. Might be something to consider!
They usually bring thier own air 
(just kidding...but not)
Finally, a tempered comment against smoke I can easily like and agree with 
That's why off switches were invented.... company.
I still say the drive over did as much or more harm, and occasional train smoke is a highly unlikely source for contracting these issues, but I know where the off switch is too 
Another point though. When my physical ability ability prevents others from enjoying life normally (and it does) I bow out gracefully or don't stay long And when young, it would have meant you got rid of Felix and Spot long before the smoke... even real smoke. Otherwise I was only good for about ten minutes tops. Too this day, cologne in public makes me flee because I "nose better" . No issues with train smoke though...though I'm sure now one of the "stink pretty" scents will get me back for this post 
Adriatic posted:Tinplate Art posted:Even though our train "smoke" is a vapor, and not true smoke, it is mostly a suspension of lipid particles (mineral oil) in a vapor and any solvents, such as petroleum distillates, used to formulate the product, also vaporize as well. Inhaling strong concentrations of such vapor in an unventilated room over a period of time could have some deleterious effects on the lungs, especially on seniors with COPD, emphysema or other forms of pulmonary insufficiency. Might be something to consider!
They usually bring thier own air
Finally, a tempered comment against smoke I can easily like and agree with
That's why off switches were invented.... company.
I still say the drive over did as much or more harm, and occasional train smoke is a highly unlikely source for contracting these issues, but I know where the off switch is too
Another point though. When my physical ability ability prevents others from enjoying life normally (and it does) I bow out gracefully or don't stay long
On my MTH engines I keep the smoke on low which is more than Lionel locomotives put out. I did install a bathroom exhaust fan in the train room which does pull the smoke out. I quit smoking 10 years ago and that probably did more harm than train smoke.
whats mikes website i thought he left lionel
As I started running a Lionel S3, I thought I would try the Lionel Premium smoke fluid (I have run Megasteam for years with no issues).
This is completely non-scientific...
The only locomotive so far, that I have gotten better smoke volume with the Lionel Premium is the S3-it smokes noticeably better and for a slightly longer period of time vs. Megasteam.
On post-war pellet type smoke units, I get more smoke volume from Megasteam.
On the old Lionel 3751 (with the smoke unit modified by removing the fiberglass sleeve and using MTH batting) I get better smoke volume with Megasteam.
I still have to test the Lionel on MTH locomotives-I will post again after I have done so.
Again, this is non-scientific and the smoke volume is gauged by simply observing the train in operation over a period of a couple of weeks with frequent operation.
Mth smoke units are only ones I use jt in cause the mth units can handle anything, lionel units, I use lionel smoke cause they're more finiky
Dmaxdeere87 posted:Mth smoke units are only ones I use jt in cause the mth units can handle anything, lionel units, I use lionel smoke cause they're more finiky
This is what I do too.
My experience (this month) with MegaSteam
After my train hobby fell dormant for a bunch of years, for various reasons, this Christmas season I got out my trains and set up a Christmas tree oval. I can’t dignify it by calling it a layout as it’s only a rectangular oval with a couple of figures scattered about, but it gets the job done.
I did not have any smoke fluid, so I began shopping. (Previously, I was using MTH ProtoSmoke, but it got lost in the shuffle somewhere.)
Mega-Smoke came highly recommended, but after I ordered a couple of bottles I had an issue. I purchased Pine and Smoke Pellet, and away I went, ……. that was until I tried the product. I started with the Pine scented fluid, and never got to even try the Smoke Pellet. The Pine fluid has no discernable “Pine” scent, but instead smells like something all its own. I thought maybe it would take a few refill cycles of running the train till it no longer smokes and then refilling, to flush out any remnants of the previous fluid. I ran no less than 4-5 cycles with no joy, so I called the folks at MegaSteam.
This is when it really got frustrating.
I asked if it might be possible that I got a bad batch of fluid as there was no pine scent at all, and what could be done. Immediately, (and quite defensively) I was told it’s not possible that there could be a bad batch of fluid, because everything is tested. I was then told that by running repeated cycles of refilling the smoke unit that should do it. I mentioned that I had already run 4-5 cycles before calling, so now the fellow I spoke to asked if the bottle of fluid smelled like pine. I checked, and it just barely does, so I said yes, but it’s quite weak. He said that’s as it should be and then immediately recommended their “Eliminator” product as the answer.
What got me upset was actually a few things.
- The information on their web site does not point you in the “Eliminator” direction when shopping for smoke fluid. Here is what their site says about it, but that’s only when you go specifically to this product:
New Product: Eliminator
- Special Treatment for smoke units to eliminate bad smells.
- Safe in all smoke units and compatible with all JT's Mega-Steam scents.
- Use like smoke fluid. Add 15-20 drops to smoke unit to cleanse the unit.
- Results are usually achieved in 3-4 filling cycles.
- Use as needed to keep your locomotive's smoke unit smelling clean.
- Nowhere – when you shop for Smoke Fluids as I did, is this Eliminator product mentioned.
- The JT’s Megasteam individual I spoke to (I don’t remember his name, but I think he identified himself as the owner.) immediately said, “We have this new Eliminator product that will solve your problem, …. yadda, yadda, yadda, and if you want to order some I’ll make sure when I see your order come in, I’ll get it out right away.” Period, end of story!
- So now, I would have to spend another $10 for eliminator plus $6.00 for shipping!
- The web site lists their smoke fluid as follows: Notice the price: $5.00 per 2oz dropper bottle. HOWEVER, when I actually ordered the fluid in the shopping cart it was $6.00/bottle, and the shipping charges are a bit much, as well.
- So, in addition to the Eliminator debacle, I felt like they were being dishonest about their pricing. The pic says $5, but it jumps to $6 in the shopping cart. Yea, it’s only a buck, but is just feels slimy!
This whole situation infuriated me, mostly because of the matter-of-fact attitude I faced when I called. My call was an opportunity for the folks at MegaSteam to correct a situation for an unhappy customer, and earn his/her loyalty.
My smoke unit didn’t have a “Bad” smell, it just didn’t have a pine scent, which is what I paid for and, why I bought the MegaSteam product in the first place.
At this point I’m not sure I’ll ever do business with them again, nor can I recommend them or their products.
What I think would be a smart business solution, is to package “Eliminator” in a small blister pack (something like what is pictured below, which would be enough to “flush” one or two smoke units for a scent changeover).
Additionally, a statement at the smoke fluid main selection page something like this is appropriate, that is if a company really cares about their customers and repurchase loyalty:
Note: Regardless of the smoke fluid type/brand/scent used, when changing from one to another, especially in the case of scented fluids, the need to clean all remnants of the previous fluid is necessary in order for the currently desired scent to work as desired. Left over constituents from a previous fluid can cause various odors which may not reflect the desired outcome of changing to a different fluid/scent, and may in fact be objectionable.
We have developed XYZ product specifically for the purposes of cleaning smoke units of the undesirable constituents which adversely affect the ability to obtain the scent you desire. Failure to properly clean your smoke unit(s) in this fashion may cause you to be unhappy with the scent produced by any given fluid, leading you to believe it is the fault of the fluid itself, when it is not. Our cleaner neutralizes the undesirable scents, allowing the new fluid to produce the scent you paid for and desire.
Some claim that multiple fill cycles with the new fluid will eventually flush out the smoke unit to the point where it will produce the desired scent of the new fluid, and while that may work, it is wasteful and during the multi-cycle changeover process, may produce objectionable scents. Our XYZ product solves that problem, and is a more economical approach. (end of text)
So, to sum things up, had the MegaSteam folks said something like this: Hey we’re sorry you are having this problem, but here is what we think may be a workable solution. We have this product called XYZ. It is specifically designed for situations like this. We have it listed on our web site, and it normally comes in X ounce bottles, for $X.XX. What we can do is send you out a free sample pack which should have enough XYZ product to clean and change over one or two typical smoke units. Once you give it a try I’m sure you’ll want more, so I’ll include a coupon with your sample pack for $1.00 off your subsequent purchase of ZYZ product. Does that sound fair?
As a customer, that’s what I’d expect from a company that cares, and quite honestly if that was done, I’d be a customer for life and there would be no question who I’d recommend whenever the subject comes up. Right now, instead, this is the story I tell, and forums like this are a great place to do it.
Regards,
GT
Good grief...
Mark in Oregon
Possible cause here, I have my layout outdoors in a temporary location this year. The heater I have doesn't regulate the temp properly and one morning I noticed it was 30 degrees, ouch. Anyways, I had 4 bottles of smoke on the shelf, two from JT and 2 from MTH. BOTH the JT bottles froze to a gel like substance, MTH was still in liquid form. I mostly use the JT at the moment and can voice for a lack of smell. Perhaps its because the product has been stored below freeze temps, as in my case. Just an observation...
@Mega-Steam posted:......As with all smoke fluids, viscosity (thickness) is another factor that needs to be mentioned. Our standard mid-range viscosity is such that our fluid is safe in all scales and all manufacturer's models. From a chemistry viewpoint, the thicker the viscosity, the slower vaporization and the more droplets will be thrown out on the track and buildings as the flashpoint is higher; the thinner the viscosity, the faster vaporization with occur and the flashpoint or ignition factor goes lower which could possibly ignite. It is important to us and our customers that our viscosity is safe. We will not sacrifice safety.
I have been running a number of my locos which have not had a lot of recent use and was worried about getting the smoke units in shape. In this process, I have been performing due diligence by adding the 40 + (up to 120 per laidoffsick?) drops to get the batting soaked. As many can verify, it can be a PITA to get rid of bubbles, clogs, etc. and get the fluid into the smoke unit batting. In the famous Mike Regan Lionel video (start at about 9 minutes), he calls this issue the film or meniscus effect. In further researching this issue, I looked over this thread and I read this quote above from Mega steam referencing an unappreciated characteristic of smoke fluids- viscosity. This has to also be a big factor on the issues Mike R. notes and related to my recent experience. If the fluid does not get to the reservoir, there is not much debate about which fluid smokes or lasts longer.
As I was running my locos and getting the smoke units primed, I thought I noticed differences in the fluids I used and Mega- steam seemed to reduce this filming or meniscus effect. At the risk of starting another fire storm, I thought a simple experiment was worth documenting for our collective consideration on the erudite topic of smoke fluid. There are a ton of details not covered in my simple test so don't beat me up for those details which I could not measure. Plus, there is another motivation, I have not won the Nobel prize yet so this might make the difference.
The bottom line is I was curious if what I was observing on simply getting fluid into the smoke unit was related to viscosity. Since I have no way to measure that at home, I cooked up a simple experiment to test the ability of the fluid to flow and to penetrate the batting. I had on hand Lionel, MTH, Mega, P&P, and also figured I would try some mineral oil too since it was around the house.
Basically, I used a Lionel plastic pipette and put one drop of fluid on a standard piece of 20 lb. copy paper (kudos to the video by laid off sick where he does something similar). I observed how the fluid migrated and how long it took to be absorbed into the paper. Here are some pictures.
This is within the first minute, you can see that Mega and mineral oil are penetrating the paper quickly.
Here is a close up after five minutes. You can see the pooling of the fluid. Mega is totally absorbed and mineral oil is very close. Lionel, P&P, and MTH still have a liquid drop visible
45 minutes later, Lionel and MTH still had a slight fluid dot that had not been absorbed. Here is the final picture of the paper penetration, held up in the light without the white table background so the size of the drop dispersion is clear.
Assuming this simple test has some relationship to viscosity, there are obvious differences in these smoke fluid products. Mega and mineral oil have similar characteristics as far as being absorbed into paper and dissipating widely. Could this explain why I thought I did not see as much of the filming or meniscus effect with Mega? Lionel, P&P, and MTH are also very similar in that they appear to be thicker and are slower to dissipate and be absorbed into paper. Lionel took the longest time (almost 45 minutes) for the drop not to be visible on top of the paper. Of course, higher viscosity may relate to the longer smoke puffing some have noted (assuming you can get the stuff into the smoke unit) but that is beyond my pay grade.
Where does this all lead? For my two cents, here is the hypothesis: if you are trying to wet a smoke unit and there is only indirect access to the batting, lower viscosity smoke fluid is your friend. Of the ones I tested, Mega steam appeared to work better (or mineral oil) to get the fluid to the batting and avoid filming for locos with complex smoke systems. Use what you want or like after that. As the expression goes, YMMV.
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Interesting test. 
Hokie, Your the Man!!!!!!!!!! Love reading your posts!!! This was a very interesting test and I am sure is providing many others with some different ways of looking at smoke fluid.
You have definitely helped me!!!
All the best to you my friend and hopefully see you in October!!
