I have been using Megasteam exclusively in my Legacy,MTH,even Williams engines for years and have had absolutely no problems with Megasteam.
I have been using Mega-Steam in all my engines for years and have had no issues with my smoke units. As others have said moderation of quantity of fluid use is key. I also think that Lionel needs to put this policy in writing if they plan on not warranting smoke unit issues if someone uses fluid other than their own.
I have always used JT Megasteam fluid and have not experienced any problems. I cannot say that it produces the most smoke or lasts the longest but it certainly hasn't damaged anything. The only thing that I have found is that you must be careful to not over saturate the smoking caboose units as, too much fluid will take a long time to burn off, and it stops the production of smoke in the process. I don't believe that the caboose units were ever perfected.
CSX Al posted:I also think that Lionel needs to put this policy in writing if they plan on not warranting smoke unit issues if someone uses fluid other than their own.
I agree with that 100%. It needs to be in writing and not mentioned at the time of RMA.
JT's Mega-Steam is alive and well. Mega-Steam is safe to use in all manufacturer's smoke units and all scales...PERIOD. We test and re-test our fluids on our large layout so that the product you purchase is of the very best quality...that is our pledge. We are proud of our 15 years of service to the hobby. Mega-Steam is consistent. Our product is the same product yesterday, today, and tomorrow. We are transparent in that what you see is what you get...PERIOD. We are transparent. You know who makes and sells our product and that product is proudly made here in the U.S.A. Our customer service is built on putting the customer first and our reputation is SOLID. Certainly, this is a threat to the larger manufacturers and they would have you believe that our smoke fluid will hurt your unit or void any warrantee. They would like nothing better than to have Mega-Steam's reputation destroyed. Why? It is pure GREED!
Our hobby offers lots of choices from model trains, power controls, accessories, and even smoke fluids. Hobbists are free to use whatever product they deem to work best in their systems. It is a personal thing and very subjective. We, at JT's Mega-Steam provide our services and products so that everyone can enjoy the hobby in whatever manner they choose. PERIOD.
If customers have questions or concerns, they can always contact us for explanations and help. That is our pledge to all of our customers, for without customers, we don't have a business...PERIOD!
Jeb & Nancy Kriigel,
JT's Mega-Steam "World's Finest Smoke Fluid!"
Well said Jeb!
I have be a Mega-Steam user and supporter since they first started. They are a first class company. And if you have an issue or concern, they are available to discuss it with you.
Hi Jeb and Nancy, I admire your entrepreneurship! I do have a question regarding MegaSteam: is it a conductor?
You mean a conductor of electricity?
Actually, I would like a list of ingredients like you get food products. I would like to know what I am breathing when I run it. I do like the Cedar Megasteam scent, by the way. I can only hope it's not any worse than vapor in a cedar paneled closet 
RickM46 posted:Hi Jeb and Nancy, I admire your entrepreneurship! I do have a question regarding MegaSteam: is it a conductor?
Megasteam can answer for themselves but as I researched this issue a while back the answer is that smoke fluid generally for 3rail smoke units is NOT a conductor of electricity. And no one, including Lionel, has ever suggested it is. The residue can gum up things (including track surfaces and indeed the painted surfaces of rolling stock) but it doesn't cause electrical shorting.
There was some issue during the first months of the Big Boy engine where smoke fluid was blamed for ruining expensive circuit boards. I wonder why a soaked board couldn't just be washed clean of the smoke fluid oil and returned to service.
I use baby oil (AKA mineral oil) bought from my local pharmacy which I cut 50% by volume using a scented train smoke. I have been doing this since 2009 without any deleterious effects to the 30+ MTH steam engines on my railroad smoke units.
cjack posted:There was some issue during the first months of the Big Boy engine where smoke fluid was blamed for ruining expensive circuit boards. I wonder why a soaked board couldn't just be washed clean of the smoke fluid oil and returned to service.
The only reasonble explanation I can think of is expected results from temperature monitoring and modification of the circuit using that data wouldn't match the intended end result.
It is possible some logic circuit saw a natural ground by some dialectic effect or something I suppose. Layer saturation on top of it? Layer saturation creating ??? Capacitance charges beween layers?? etc.
CJACK,
As with most smoke fluids, Mega-Steam is non-conductive. Flooding locomotives with fluid will make a mess and possibly have some reaction with the sensitive electronics. Regarding the ingredients question: All of our ingredients are as pure as possible, quality controlled to avoid contamination, and are eco-earth friendly and non-flammable when used as directed. Mega-Steam started with 2 basic scents...Vanilla and Original Cedar. This idea was to create smoke fluid that would be pleasant to the home environment. Back then most of the fluid had a peculiar odor and was not pleasant to spouses and/or significant others. From that time forward we have worked meticulousy to create light pleasant scents that are indeed pleasing to most people. It is very subjective and personal. Each of our scents has its own proprietary formula that took several years to experiment with and develop. Unfortunately, we cannot provide those individual ingredients for obvious reasons.
As with all smoke fluids, visicosity (thickness) is another factor that needs to be mentioned. Our standard mid-range viscosity is such that our fluid is safe in all scales and all manufacturer's models. From a chemistry viewpoint, the thicker the viscosity, the slower vaporization and the more droplets will be thrown out on the track and buildings as the flashpoint is higher; the thinner the viscosity, the faster vaporization with occur and the flashpoint or ignition factor goes lower which could possibly ignite. It is important to us and our customers that our viscosity is safe. We will not sacrifice safety.
Above all, common sense is important no matter which smoke fluid is used. Following directions and not underfilling or overfilling are key factors when using smoke fluids. Care has to be taken to achieve the desired results. As mentioned earlier in this thread, smoke fluid is vaporized, not burned. No carbon is produced.
It is hoped that these notes will help answer the questions posed. Further questions and individual concerns can be posed directly to us.
Jeb
Is the ELIMINATOR a different product? Produced differently?
If it will eliminate bad smells, is it some sort of cleaning agent?
Thanks
Wow. Just wow. My friend said that this guy told him that another guy told him brand A doesn't gunk resistors, turns into implicit accusations that brand M causes gunk. No only with no facts, but without anybody even stepping up to actually make the assertion. This is pretty crappy.
I use both these brands and like them both, but I am not going to be scared away from megasteam by histrionics.
pennsy484 posted:Wow. Just wow. My friend said that this guy told him that another guy told him brand A doesn't gunk resistors, turns into implicit accusations that brand M causes gunk. No only with no facts, but without anybody even stepping up to actually make the assertion. This is pretty crappy.
Crappy indeed but it wasn’t just gossip/implicit accusations but an actual manufacturer comment. If their later model smoke units are not designed to use the most popular fluids so be it but earlier models and probably the vast majority of other smoke units out there demonstrably can. So I’m scared off brand M for what I know it works well with.
I was thinking that any fluid would produce a little coating after awhile and the eliminator would eliminate it. Sounds like a good thing...
This discussion could go on forever, since the original question was asking about the "BEST" smoke fluid.
Like most things, I guess, one's definition of "best" is based on one's own experiences...
Mark in Oregon
Hancock52 posted: Crappy indeed but it wasn’t just gossip/implicit accusations but an actual manufacturer comment.
Well, idk, was it? I don't see any comment here by Lionel. Nor do I even see a comment by any ex-employee of Lionel's. It's someone saying someone told them that an ex employee said Lionel brand doesn't cause gunk. That is not Lionel saying Megasteam causes gunk. That's all I am saying Seems crappy to be throwing a long time favorite maker under the bus based on flimsy conjecture. I am not entirely sure this whole thread isn't a bit of trolling with a seeming innocent but loaded question. Like I said I use bith, but there seems to be something mob like and unfair going on here. Opinion.
I think JT said it all. The viscosity probably has to do with if it leaves a little residue or not, but more importantly, the viscosity has to do with safe vaporization. If it is too thin, it can be less safe as to flame. So it's a call by the manufacturers for the range of their intended application. I would think it's better to stay on the safe side even though you may not have had any issues with a thinner product. And, the testimonials by respected repair guys and the general users is varied, but also satisfying in that it means that your choice of brand of smoke fluid is mostly up to you. For the brands mentioned here, I think that there is no bad choice. I personally like the Mega-Steam Cedar for some uses and the Premium Lionel for others or at other times.
cjack posted:I was thinking that any fluid would produce a little coating after awhile and the eliminator would eliminate it. Sounds like a good thing...
I like the smell of Eliminator too and sometimes use it just for the scent. However, I think it costs more than the regular smoke fluid?
pennsy484 posted:Hancock52 posted: Crappy indeed but it wasn’t just gossip/implicit accusations but an actual manufacturer comment.Well, idk, was it? I don't see any comment here by Lionel. Nor do I even see a comment by any ex-employee of Lionel's. It's someone saying someone told them that an ex employee said Lionel brand doesn't cause gunk. That is not Lionel saying Megasteam causes gunk. That's all I am saying Seems crappy to be throwing a long time favorite maker under the bus based on flimsy conjecture. I am not entirely sure this whole thread isn't a bit of trolling with a seeming innocent but loaded question. Like I said I use bith, but there seems to be something mob like and unfair going on here. Opinion.
Well put Jeff. I agree 100%.
O.K. Here it is folks,no trolling, no heresay, no rumor.
From the first page of this 1 year old thread: Smoke fluid issues
"You know, when I left the Big L I thought I would never have to revisit this topic! I guess not."
"Okay, here is what my experience has been. JT Mega Steam fluid leaves a tacky residue inside the smoke unit (and all parts the smoke fluid touches; stack, funnel, shell, etc). Te carrier fluid that JT uses leaves a tacky hydrocarbon deposit on the batting and all throughout the smoke system. Does it smoke well? Yes. Does it smoke long? In modern Lionel equipment my experience has been that prematurely wears on the system, causing more frequent repairs to the smoke system."
"For anyone wanting to perform this test themselves, it is very easy. Take an AA set (modern Legacy with a track IR LED) and put Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid in the powered A unit and JT in the non powered smoke unit (or vice versa). Then just let them run, you will see which unit degrades faster. Then, when you take them apart and compare the two units you will discover this tacky residue I referred to all the time. "
"When I was at Lionel we tested and built our products using Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid (which was the old unscented TAS smoke fluid). This fluid is not as heavy as the JT fluid and leaves no residue behind, sans the hydrocarbon on the batting (that dark brown/black "charring" that prevents fluid from making it to the element). If you remember all the videos I did, where I talk about a needle applicator bottle, that allows you to get the fluid down in the smoke unit (in the batting) and not all over the inside of the funnel/stack. Anywhere you have liquid fluid the smoke vapor likes to cling to, a clean stack will produce more smoke! "
"Anyway, that is where I am coming from. Never wanted to start a brand war, just wanted folks to be able to enjoy their trains, without having to get inside them. "
Thanks,
Mike
Thank you,
Mike Reagan
TW Trainworx
I have been using lamp oil in my LGB smoke units and have started using it in my Lionel smoke units. It works rather well, putting out a good amount of smoke. I have not had any ill effects using it in the LGB and USA Trains fan driven smoke units. I've been doing it for several years.
RickO posted:O.K. Here it is folks,no trolling, no heresay, no rumor.
Scroll down to the 24th post on the first page of this 1 year old thread: Smoke fluid issues
Thanks for pointing that out. The most recent thread on the smoke fluid controversy, which I think gave rise to the OP's question starting this thread, was actually on the VL Niagara and started in earnest here: https://ogrforum.com/...gara-arriving?page=3
So no, no trolling. Read the first post in this thread. 
Whelp, not going to argue with Mike Reagan. That's a shame. I like the idea of the independent smoke guy. I hope this doesn't hurt him too much or we'll have just Lionel and MTH for smoke fluid too. 😔
I'll need to check for gunk.
I think folks will decide whether they want a warranty to cover their engine or use the smoke fluid of their choice. If this is Lionel's stance, although without it being explicitly written in any literature seems suspect to me to enforce, then folks may find it difficult to get warranty repair on a smoke related issue. That's going to have to be an individual choice.
As many of the forum's repair folks have reported they have had zero issues so that is certainly encouraging. And Jeb and his team stand behind their products as well.
For me personally I'll continue to use the Lionel Premium until my warranty runs out and possibly beyond. Perhaps making sure at minimal it is used in the AUX units where plastic tubing and narrow openings are the norm.
I would say this to Lionel, if that's your policy to deny warranty repair based on smoke fluid type then you need to make that part of the instruction manual. There is a difference in a recommendation to use your fluid and a requirement for warranty repair. If not for being a member of this forum I suspect many of us wouldn't have a clue until we needed a RMA.
Lionel smokes better so regardless, given what Mike R said why take a chance?
"Okay, here is what my experience has been. JT Mega Steam fluid leaves a tacky residue inside the smoke unit (and all parts the smoke fluid touches; stack, funnel, shell, etc). Te carrier fluid that JT uses leaves a tacky hydrocarbon deposit on the batting and all throughout the smoke system. Does it smoke well? Yes. Does it smoke long? In modern Lionel equipment my experience has been that prematurely wears on the system, causing more frequent repairs to the smoke system."
OK. Since Mega-Steam is specificallly mentioned in the older post, and referenced here again, it is appropriate that in all fairness, some questions should be posed:
1.) Which JT's Mega-Steam smoke fluid was used to draw these conclusions? Was a particular scent the culprit or just all Mega-Steam fluid in general? In our thorough testing, we have never found any of the above mentioned "tacky hydrocarbon deposits" or any signs of causing "premature wear on the system causing more frequent repairs to the smoke system." Those are pretty strong conclusions about our product and could certainly be interpreted as "bashing our product!"
2.) Why does it appear that JT's Mega-Steam smoke fluid is targeted? Were other manufacturer's brands tested as well, or was Mega-Steam just singled out for this testing? When a manufacturer's employee conducts a test on a competitor's product is there any question as to which product will be concluded as superior?
3.) The Ex-Lionel employee who is well known and respected by many in the hobby promotes and personally sells the Lionel Premium smoke fluid and benefits from the sale thereof. Does that have any baring on the above conclusions? What is the connection? Is there any conflict of interest? Why is it necessary to attack a competitor and bash his product?
We, at JT's Mega-Steam stand behind our product and our customers. We appreciate comments and suggestions from customers and competitors. We are transparent and we take pride in our honest approach to what we do. Yes, everyone can make their personal choice. Which smoke fluid is the best? It is totally up to the individual. All that we ask is that the information about any manufacturer or product be handled in an honest and fair manner.
Jeb & Nancy Kriigel
JT's Mega-Steam
Mega-Steam posted:Yes, everyone can make their personal choice. Which smoke fluid is the best? It is totally up to the individual.
Jeb & Nancy Kriigel
JT's Mega-Steam
...I think that's basically what I said in my previous post...it might be time to end this before it goes further...
What's the lyric to that song? "To Each His Own"...
Mark in Oregon
This sounds like a conspiracy to me. No offensive to anyone, but Jeb is right. Without knowing specifically what was given the issues messing things up, you really can't pin things down. The other issue which is something that could also be a problem, operator error maybe filling to much? Maybe something else could be a problem, both smoke fluids not mixing well causing the issue(if there is anything left of one when adding another). That's all I can think of after looking at this and the prior thread(last year or so) saying the same sort of thing.
Well if there is a positive side to all this information (from which one can make their intelligent choices), I have been reminded to reorder come Mega-Steam Original Cedar to set beside my reorder of Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid Unscented.
My last word(s):
1. Totally fair points raised by Jeb and Nancy. I know Megasteam works in engines I have had for years and I'll with stick with it for those, which are the majority of my little fleet.
2. I have serviced and researched later model Lionel smoke units and have reached the conclusion that the amount of features and different hardware Lionel has introduced into them make them a lot more finicky/susceptible to failure than older units. Plus Lionel Premium fluid definitely evaporates/dissipates in the container to an extent I have never seen with other products so its formulation must be pretty different. On testing it I have found it works with Lionel's later units (including the VL Niagara) so I will carry on using it for those.
Just wanted to know which smokes better.
Sigh . . . . .
I’ve found much more variation between the engines than in the smoke fluid. I think we’ve all seen really dense smoke vapor with different brands.
Scrapiron Scher posted:Just wanted to know which smokes better.
Sigh . . . . .
That's like asking what baseball team is best, what is better, steam or diesel? There is going to be so many different answers to the question. Best option, try whatever you like, take close friends/clubs points into consideration(especially for the warranty disclaimer that should be stated in big bold letter from you know who), and lastly, have fun running your engines whatever you decide to run.
Scrapiron Scher posted:Just wanted to know which smokes better.
Sigh . . . . .
This is a loaded question and most people who have been in the hobby don’t need to ask! If people want to believe Lionel and MTH smoke fluid works best in there own products so be it. That’s what they want you to believe! Why? Beacause they want you to buy there product and who ever works for them or have worked for them in the past is obligated to push the product they get there paycheck from!
Use what you want to use. There will be pleanty of more posts on how toys over $1000 dollars have to go back to the factory multiple times to get fixed for non smoke issues. Enjoy your trains.
Scrapiron Scher posted:Just wanted to know which smokes better.
Sigh . . . . .
I feel your frustration: perhaps if you had titled this thread with the word "better" instead of "best"...(?)
Mark in Oregon
I dont know why MTH/ protosmoke is never included. I think its good too!
