Lionel Visionline Niagara Arriving

Norton 

After reading that Megastream is not recommended...

Pete

 

Omg.  My 6013 arrives today.  Can you please elaborate?  I need no smell smoke fluid...  so i use NADA by megasteam.  

Why cant i use megasteam?

Super O Bob posted:

Norton 

After reading that Megastream is not recommended...

Pete

 

Omg.  My 6013 arrives today.  Can you please elaborate?  I need no smell smoke fluid...  so i use NADA by megasteam.  

Why cant i use megasteam?

Lionel recommends, not surprisingly, to use their premium smoke fluid.  They say it is non conductive and their smoke unit optimized for their fluid if you want to believe that. 

They also in many case will not repair units under warranty if you use other smoke fluids.  I use Lionel until the warranty passes.  Then I use whatever but have typically remained with the Lionel fluid.  They do make an unscented.

You can read Mike Reagan's thoughts on this here.

Thanks very much Marty...

I will see if my dealer has Lionel and i will use that...

There will be many that will disagree with Lionel's recommendation but if the warranty will be in question then I'll use what they suggest until I'll have to pay to repair anyways.  The Lionel fluid has worked well for me.  I do use JTs in some of my older engines.

Mike Reagan which almost everyone agrees knows his stuff,  and is a former employee of Lionel said himself - "Do not use Mega steam in Lionel engines"!

I've had issues myself,  but I won't get into them.

Do what you want.

I'd stick with Lionel smoke fluid in Lionel engines..

Super O Bob posted:

Norton 

After reading that Megastream is not recommended...

Pete

 

Omg.  My 6013 arrives today.  Can you please elaborate?  I need no smell smoke fluid...  so i use NADA by megasteam.  

Why cant i use megasteam?

A forum member here already reported that one of his smoke units quit working correctly. Lionel service told him that Megasteam coats the resistors and if he continued to use it they would not repair it again.

Sounds like a cop out to me but to avoid that situation I have decided to just get some Lionel fluid.

Despite picking up this engine for its smoke effects I am not a fan of smoke anyways. My main interest is its an NYC engine with unique features.

Pete

Anyone have any recs on where to buy a large size of Lionel non-scented smoke fluid for a good price?  

Norton posted:

 Also straightened the drawbar which was hanging too low to the center rail. 

 Pete

D&H 65 posted:

Norton: I also had to straighten my tender drawbar from the "as manufactured" configuration. Mine was so low, the locomotive drawbar tip would just clear the center rail moving forward and would short to the center rail at times in a backing movement.

 

I don't have this engine but I've seen that drawbar issue before. Some of my engines have it hanging so low that it often hits the center rail on my layout (tabletop fastrack not screwed down). To resolve that in my case I've attach a small piece of Kapton Tape to the drawbar to correct the issue. If I have another part of an engine that touches the center rail and the tape is not able to stay attached very well (like on a cowcatcher I have with that issue) I use a small dab of Liquid Electrical Tape.

I have removed a lot of Lionel drawbars to shorten them. They were much wider and stiffer than the one used on the Niagara. It took little effort to straighten this one with my finger. I appears it may have gotten bent when it was placed in the box. Not something to worry about though as its easily rectified.

Pete

Just so all the cards are on the table, I returned my Niagara this past Monday to Lionel to have the stack-smoke unit looked at. It worked flawlessly for the first 30 minutes and then it had what I call a "step-change" in operation. before my issue, I had all three levels of smoke production; after that initial 30 minutes, mine would only produce an amount of smoke I liken to "LOW' being selected on my Cab-2.

My other issue for return was the "tender pressure relief" smoke system would not trigger the smoke function reliably; the "sound" portion always works, but smoke production was random at best. WHEN it worked, it would smoke like all the videos on here show; mine either smoked or didn't smoke even though the sound ALWAYS worked, so I have to say the "Command" was received by the tender smoke control board. I'm waiting to see what Lionel finds out.

And yes, I id use JT's Mega-Steam fluid initially as that's what I had. "Katie" @Lionel Service was the individual who passed on Lionel's policy of not warranting smoke units with JT's in them; they did make an exception this one time.

D&H 65 posted:

Just so all the cards are on the table, I returned my Niagara this past Monday to Lionel to have the stack-smoke unit looked at. It worked flawlessly for the first 30 minutes and then it had what I call a "step-change" in operation. before my issue, I had all three levels of smoke production; after that initial 30 minutes, mine would only produce an amount of smoke I liken to "LOW' being selected on my Cab-2.

My other issue for return was the "tender pressure relief" smoke system would not trigger the smoke function reliably; the "sound" portion always works, but smoke production was random at best. WHEN it worked, it would smoke like all the videos on here show; mine either smoked or didn't smoke even though the sound ALWAYS worked, so I have to say the "Command" was received by the tender smoke control board. I'm waiting to see what Lionel finds out.

And yes, I id use JT's Mega-Steam fluid initially as that's what I had. "Katie" @Lionel Service was the individual who passed on Lionel's policy of not warranting smoke units with JT's in them; they did make an exception this one time.

Several years ago I asked about the warranty question directly to "Talk to Us" and the reply was the same as Katie told you.

Train Nut posted:

Mike Reagan which almost everyone agrees knows his stuff,  and is a former employee of Lionel said himself - "Do not use Mega steam in Lionel engines"!

I've had issues myself,  but I won't get into them.

Do what you want.

I'd stick with Lionel smoke fluid in Lionel engines..

 

So is Mega-Steam bad or was Lionel's product designed not to work with it? We've never ever had issues with it in MTH engines.

Both Williams and MTH engines come with a bottle of the smoke fluid they recommend. I haven't read anywhere in the Lionel owners manual to use Lionel Smoke fluid. You would think they would at least include a 1 oz bottle for you to try along with a warning against other brands?

Pete

Anyone get the pilot niagara? If so please post pics & a video. 

So my Niagara arrived.  AND I said a little prayer to the train-fairy before I opened the box. 

However, sometimes your prayers go unanswered or the answer is no. 

I found a small piece of black plastic that looks like it broke off from somewhere in the wrappings AND a small, about 3 inches, length of  the handrail on one side looks like someone at the factory repainted by hand but poorly as it is lumpy black.

I will start it up this weekend and re-pray.

Norton posted:

Both Williams and MTH engines come with a bottle of the smoke fluid they recommend. I haven't read anywhere in the Lionel owners manual to use Lionel Smoke fluid. You would think they would at least include a 1 oz bottle for you to try along with a warning against other brands?

Pete

While not warning against using others, my VL GG1 manual tells me for best results use Lionel premium smoke fluid and not use fluid from starter sets. If I were not covering issues under warranty I'd sure be putting a small bottle and a strongly worded warning. 

I stand corrected. The Niagara manual says the same thing. 

Pete

I received my 6013 Niagara yesterday.  Everything looks ok but I did NOT receive the owners manual.  Called Lionel and they e mailed me a copy, and told me to call in a few weeks to get a manual sent to me.  Another QC issue.  Going to run it tonite, fingers crossed.

Ordered my Vision Line last Saturday night from TrainWorld and it showed up today by FedEx.  I asked TW to double box it and they did including a lot of packing - cudos to those people, they know how to ship trains; you can see the attached pictures.  No damage to the boxes.  Hats off to TW.

Out of the box, there were no issues with the finish or mechanics or electronics - everything works using the CAB2 remote.  Including the orange memory module was a nice touch.  On this unit, Lionel got everything right.  Since I am running it with a CW80 transformer, I only run one smoke unit at a time - don't want to do anything to mess up a smoke unit - you all know I am the destroyer of smoke units.  For now, I only have an 8 foot test track so no long runs.

Some additional observations: The vertical connector on the drawbar is about 1/8 inch above the center rail; will keep an eye on it.  The sand dome cover comes off easy to get at the switches, no screwdriver necessary.  On the locomotive, there is a switch for run/pgm, stack, whistle, pop off and one on the tender for smoke.  The pop off cover comes off easily by gently picking the gold valves.  The smoke fill tool box for the tender is not so easy to take off - needed the small blade of  screwdriver.  The locomotive cannot be pushed manually to move it, the wheels will not turn, you can gently lift it and then move it.  You have to use the included funnel to add fluid to the pop off and tender unless you have a mighty fine dropper.  The coal in the tender is firmly stuck in place.  One last thing, I thought I saw somewhere that it comes with 4 spare tires - only 2 in my box - no worries.

Happy Camper

Trainworld doesn't mess around when you ask them to double box it.

Headin off to perdition.

Regarding the drawbar. I placed the engine on its side and placed a pencil between the drawbar and frame as close to the wires connected to it as possible. Then just pushed up at the end. For the tender I just lifted it slightly so the optical devices lined up. They both bend easily. With the drawbars connected they are virtually horizontal, level with the track, not drooping down.

Pete

MartyE posted:

D&H 65 posted:

Just so all the cards are on the table, I returned my Niagara this past Monday to Lionel to have the stack-smoke unit looked at. It worked flawlessly for the first 30 minutes and then it had what I call a "step-change" in operation. before my issue, I had all three levels of smoke production; after that initial 30 minutes, mine would only produce an amount of smoke I liken to "LOW' being selected on my Cab-2.

My other issue for return was the "tender pressure relief" smoke system would not trigger the smoke function reliably; the "sound" portion always works, but smoke production was random at best. WHEN it worked, it would smoke like all the videos on here show; mine either smoked or didn't smoke even though the sound ALWAYS worked, so I have to say the "Command" was received by the tender smoke control board. I'm waiting to see what Lionel finds out.

And yes, I id use JT's Mega-Steam fluid initially as that's what I had. "Katie" @Lionel Service was the individual who passed on Lionel's policy of not warranting smoke units with JT's in them; they did make an exception this one time.

Several years ago I asked about the warranty question directly to "Talk to Us" and the reply was the same as Katie told you.

Thats like Ford saying they won't warranty your motor because you didn't use Motorcraft oil and filters for your oil changes. Total BS

Just a scape goat to get out of paying to fix their own crappy product.

PJB posted:

Anyone have any recs on where to buy a large size of Lionel non-scented smoke fluid for a good price?  

Mike Reagan sells unscented for $60 a quart. It sounds high, but thats a much better deal ( nearly half price) than the $7 or so for Lionels 2oz bottles.

You can email Mike at Trainworx: mreagan@twtrainworx.com

Can the smoke deflectors be removed on these?

Lionel 6-37841 premium smoke fluid  CAN NOT BE PURCHASED on Lionel's website

I am impressed by the financial success of all you folks that can afford a locomotive that costs approximately $2,000. 

The most I ever paid was $750 for my Postwar Lionel Brunswick Green 5 stripe GG1 that I love. After I bought it, I said to myself, "OMG, I just spent $750 for a toy!" LOL, Arnold 

jeremy ferrell posted:

Can the smoke deflectors be removed on these?

In my world there’s a cold Sam Adams winter lager & a vision niagara for everyone. I like your signature. I had to modify it for me... an east coast guy! 

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

Can the smoke deflectors be removed on these?

In my world there’s a cold Sam Adams winter lager & a vision niagara for everyone. I like your signature. I had to modify it for me... an east coast guy! 

AlanRail posted:

So my Niagara arrived.  AND I said a little prayer to the train-fairy before I opened the box. 

However, sometimes your prayers go unanswered or the answer is no. 

I found a small piece of black plastic that looks like it broke off from somewhere in the wrappings AND a small, about 3 inches, length of  the handrail on one side looks like someone at the factory repainted by hand but poorly as it is lumpy black.

I will start it up this weekend and re-pray.

Could the broken off piece be what looks like a car exhaust pipe on the left bottom side of the cab extending rearward past the cab?  See my pic.  Didn't notice it till my fingers brushed it while handling the loco. 

jeremy ferrell posted:

Can the smoke deflectors be removed on these?

Yes, It shares most of the parts with the Century Club version so you can go to Lionel's parts site and get an idea whats what. The Vision version hasn't been posted yet.

Pete

AlanRail posted:

So my Niagara arrived.  AND I said a little prayer to the train-fairy before I opened the box. 

However, sometimes your prayers go unanswered or the answer is no. 

I found a small piece of black plastic that looks like it broke off from somewhere in the wrappings AND a small, about 3 inches, length of  the handrail on one side looks like someone at the factory repainted by hand but poorly as it is lumpy black.

I will start it up this weekend and re-pray.

In my world, I quit praying to the train fairy because he/she/it hasn’t answered the phone in years. Probably gone over to the dark side (HO). Better just to have a drink.

I do however feel “blessed” that my #6001 arrived with no cosmetic or operating issues. But it was my turn to be lucky or I was overdue for a bout of luck. 

It does give me pause that a bodged factory repaint job is evident in your case. Sheesh, when is this kind of stuff going to stop?

The traction tire on my Niagara #6013 was off when I received the sealed engine.  After bending the brake shoe away from the driver wheel, I was able to install the traction tire.  It ran less than two hours and slammed my Niagara to a stop.  The engine would not move.

Having few options because of its location in a far corner of the layout, I tried to rock the engine forward and backward.  After three minutes the engine began to jerk down the track.  I backed the engine up and the Niagara dropped the cut traction tire on the track roadbed. 

I am glad the new "Wiha" screw drivers arrived so I can remove the Phillips screws holding the drive rods.  I will replace the traction tire, but not every two hours I hope.  I will have to check with Lionel Service about this.  They still have my two Vision Line GG1s that have gear problems.  Evidently one VL GG1 that never worked correctly cannot be repaired (for the third time), so I have been offered a replacement from a choice of similarly priced engines.  My CSX F40PH just returned mid week and I will check the smoke fan this afternoon. 

Lionel also informed me that the Allegheny #1604 they did not fix the first time, is now out-of-warranty and they will not bring it in for service.  My other Allegheny #1608 arrived with damage linkage rods and my money was refunded by the dealer a year-and-a-half ago.

Model Railroading is fun.

Sincerely,  John Rowlen

RickM46 posted:

Ordered my Vision Line last Saturday night from TrainWorld and it showed up today by FedEx.  I asked TW to double box it and they did including a lot of packing - cudos to those people, they know how to ship trains; you can see the attached pictures.  No damage to the boxes.  Hats off to TW.

Out of the box, there were no issues with the finish or mechanics or electronics - everything works using the CAB2 remote.  Including the orange memory module was a nice touch.  On this unit, Lionel got everything right.  Since I am running it with a CW80 transformer, I only run one smoke unit at a time - don't want to do anything to mess up a smoke unit - you all know I am the destroyer of smoke units.  For now, I only have an 8 foot test track so no long runs.

Some additional observations: The vertical connector on the drawbar is about 1/8 inch above the center rail; will keep an eye on it.  The sand dome cover comes off easy to get at the switches, no screwdriver necessary.  On the locomotive, there is a switch for run/pgm, stack, whistle, pop off and one on the tender for smoke.  The pop off cover comes off easily by gently picking the gold valves.  The smoke fill tool box for the tender is not so easy to take off - needed the small blade of  screwdriver.  The locomotive cannot be pushed manually to move it, the wheels will not turn, you can gently lift it and then move it.  You have to use the included funnel to add fluid to the pop off and tender unless you have a mighty fine dropper.  The coal in the tender is firmly stuck in place.  One last thing, I thought I saw somewhere that it comes with 4 spare tires - only 2 in my box - no worries.

Happy Camper

Trainworld doesn't mess around when you ask them to double box it.

Headin off to perdition.

Wait wow Lionel sent a orange engine Memory Module?! I thought they discontinued those! 

Norton posted:

Regarding the drawbar. I placed the engine on its side and placed a pencil between the drawbar and frame as close to the wires connected to it as possible. Then just pushed up at the end. For the tender I just lifted it slightly so the optical devices lined up. They both bend easily. With the drawbars connected they are virtually horizontal, level with the track, not drooping down.

Pete

Norton, can you show a pic on the placement of the pencil?  Did you then push up on the end of the pencil?  Thanks.

zhubl posted:

Including the orange memory module was a nice touch. 

 

Wait wow Lionel sent a orange engine Memory Module?! I thought they discontinued those! 

Maybe you have to join the VL crowd to get it or maybe???

RickM46 posted:

zhubl posted:

Including the orange memory module was a nice touch.

Wait wow Lionel sent a orange engine Memory Module?! I thought they discontinued those! 

Maybe you have to join the VL crowd to get it or maybe???

I can't remember whether at one stage Lionel said that the orange module would only be included with VL engines. But in this case, the code to access the various smoke features and especially the water pickup (a.k.a. the "booster rockets" as they are called in my house) might be different from other engines. However I always thought that the module didn't have any function that you could not duplicate by entering info in the CAB2 remote yourself and the Niagara's manual suggests that is still the case. 

So go figure . . .

Hancock52 posted:

RickM46 posted:

zhubl posted:

Including the orange memory module was a nice touch.

Wait wow Lionel sent a orange engine Memory Module?! I thought they discontinued those! 

Maybe you have to join the VL crowd to get it or maybe???

I can't remember whether at one stage Lionel said that the orange module would only be included with VL engines. But in this case, the code to access the various smoke features and especially the water pickup (a.k.a. the "booster rockets" as they are called in my house) might be different from other engines. However I always thought that the module didn't have any function that you could not duplicate by entering info in the CAB2 remote yourself and the Niagara's manual suggests that is still the case. 

So go figure . . .

Interesting. I’ve used the sensor track that came with the VL Big Boy for a couple of things. I guess we’ll have to wait and see when the new challenger comes out. 

Decided to lubricate the locomotive and tender.  All axles and running gear were dry.  Also, took off the gear case cover and saw that the drive gear was dry - no lube at all.  I used Red and Tacky to lube it.  There are no grease ports on this model.  The owner's manual makes no reference to adding grease to the drive gear; but, I greased it anyway. Did a test run, no issues; no worries.

Great to hear the box came in good shape Rick!

I have heard the same issue about smoke fluid on G scale manufacturers as well. 

Were putting together a video for the Niagara so hear are some clips.  I must say this has to be the coolest engine ever.  The water scoop effect is amazing. 

Norton posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

Can the smoke deflectors be removed on these?

Yes, It shares most of the parts with the Century Club version so you can go to Lionel's parts site and get an idea whats what. The Vision version hasn't been posted yet.

Pete

Found this page at Lionel parts on the Century Club version:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...55-8273-459eba514c2a

KenJrTW posted:

Great to hear the box came in good shape Rick!

I have heard the same issue about smoke fluid on G scale manufacturers as well. 

Were putting together a video for the Niagara so hear are some clips.  I must say this has to be the coolest engine ever.  The water scoop effect is amazing. 

 

Ken, as I said in my post above, you guys do good work, thanks a bunch!!