Brushing up on DCS

Why not run each of the two loops whatever size they are using separate TIU channels?

You do realize you can also run conventional stuff on those loops by using the variable channels, right?

3rd (final) edition of Barry's book is still available on Amazon for about $31. 

While searching, some crazy prices for other versions showed up from other vendors, so shop carefully.

"Why not run each of the two loops whatever size they are using separate TIU channels?"

John, just before I started to pull up track to create blocks, I thought why not try DCS on the loop? The PS1 using a Z1000 and a controller navigate the loops (though I had to run some gnds to some dead rails, a lot switches there) and it is 18' long. The track plan/layout appears here:-  

FINALLY...... I think. What do you think? -  in the Plan and Layout Design section.

As bad as my memory is, I thought I remembered Barry preaching that is was better to have a couple of blocks (maybe something about feedback of the DCS signal on itself?) but what do I know? If a big loop runs on a rug, a little bigger one should run on a board. Difference might be the breaks where the turnouts are. ( and yes, I used to run some of my post war on a loop back in the day, just for fun.)

So, I am going back out and try a run, or maybe tomorrow.....with the TIU and 2 Z1000 bricks. I am sure I will have to run some alternate gnds, but that is easy.

AND.........................................

"3rd (final) edition of Barry's book is still available on Amazon for about $31. "

Thank you, I know. But I am betting about the time I order it, or it arrives, that will be about when I find my copy and my notes. New users don't know how much in "thanks" they owe to Barry. For now, I will try to muddle along...shouting out for help every once in awhile, if you guys don't mind.

Thanks to you both for reading and taking the time to reply, always appreciated. Greg

You can actually parallel two channel inputs on one Z1000 brick.  One thing to remember, you can't really have too much DCS track signal.   For a couple short loops, one channel will likely work.  I was thinking two loops, one on each of the variable channels.  That way you can run command or conventional on those loops, all handled by the hand held controller.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can actually parallel two channel inputs on one Z1000 brick.  One thing to remember, you can't really have too much DCS track signal.   For a couple short loops, one channel will likely work.  I was thinking two loops, one on each of the variable channels.  That way you can run command or conventional on those loops, all handled by the hand he controller.

John, the overall length of the outer loop is about 30', the inner is just under that for the main loop, (board is roughly 18' X 8' overall)  then it has sidings/spurs,  and I plan on running 2 PS2 engines at a time on each loop ( i could be brave enough to have 3 travel on the outer at the same time, plus some trains will be MU'd) so I thought conservatively that each loop deserved a Z1000. Turnouts will be an aux transformer ( have no shortage of transformers....they will power lighted houses, accessories, etc. Track power will be track power - just for trains.) I have no short loops on this board - unless I decide to add an upper level over the existing board in the back, left corner.

While I may stick on a post war conventional for grins sometime, it will be mainly MTH Ps2 engines on this.

Does that change anything you suggested? I will know more tomorrow, I am going to hook up the DCS. I was going to do it earlier, but I pulled out 2- Z750 items by mistake.

One of them with a factory plug on it...is out of phase!! (I usually check anything before I hook it up) Nothing surprises me anymore. The 750 would probably work as well as the Z1000 for only 2 engines, with smoke etc. Thoughts? Thanks again for your time. Greg

I don't understand the reluctance to use more than one channel.  It costs you nothing since the TIU has four channels.  It can only give you a better signal on all the track, and there's no downside that I can see, but there is certainly a potential upside.

I rest my case, I don't think I have any more than I can say about it.

John, I agreed with.

@cngw posted:

I will know more tomorrow, I am going to hook up the DCS. I was going to do it earlier, but I pulled out 2- Z750 items by mistake.

John, I agreed with you, that is why I said I was going to do what you suggested (which when I did it, is how I hooked it up years ago) I ran the outer loop on the fixed 1 with a Z1000 input, and the inner loop with Fixed 2 with another z1000. I have 10's and 9's all over, but for 2 sections of track I have to replace.

IF there is some disadvantage to doing it like this, or some advantage to having both inner and outer loop on one channel and 1 Z1000 - I will gladly put the hot rails back together uniting the two loops. If you think that the 1 Z1000 should handle the 4 to 6 engines that will be on those tracks, I am happy to do it.

Advise me your thoughts when you get time, much appreciated. I am going out back now, Greg

Actually, if you have multiple TIU channels, my choice is to use one channel on each loop.  You can use separate power supplies, clearly for multiple engines on each track, that would make the most sense.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, if you have multiple TIU channels, my choice is to use one channel on each loop.  You can use separate power supplies, clearly for multiple engines on each track, that would make the most sense.

Yep, we are on the same page, Fxd ch 1 w' Z1000 for outer loop, Fxd ch 2 w' Z1000 for inner loop....and I find all track sections read 9-10 (after I sanded some of that "pesky" black factory coating off of the middle rail of some the Realtrax track and turnouts. I never understood their thoughts for that unless they were thinking 2 rail use.)

I do have another question if you have time.   I have a couple of Z 750 units. One has a none polarized, 2 prong factory plug, I determined the neutral, filled a notch on each side of that prong and marked the body, so all is good. This is not different than what I have to do with my post war Lionel transformers.

I have another one, WITH factory, 2 prong, polarized plug...that is wrong - someone was asleep at the factory that day.

A few choices would be to 1) file down edges on that prong, notch it and mark the side body. 2) cut the wire a foot from the plug, strip and reverse the wires, solder, and cover with heat shrink and tape up.   3) cut the plug off and replace it with one I purchase...but that will probably be a plug with a gnded prong. I have not bought a replacement plug in 15 years! No idea what is out there now.

To me, the easiest thing would be option 1....especially since I may not even use that PS and this is a Christmas layout. But I like #2 due to it retaining the original, wide prong.  I am just thinking ahead to any future use and anyone who would grab it an NOT pay attention to filed notches.

I am leaning toward doing #2 in the next few days. Thoughts on how you might attack it?

Thanks for your time, Greg

Option C is to open up the transformer case and swap the 110V leads inside to fix it.  No mods to the cord and you retain the original molded plug.   If it's easier, you can also swap the secondary output coils, I don't recall which would be easier for that transformer.

FWIW, various transformers over the years have had production runs with reverse polarity from both Lionel and MTH.  I believe both the Lionel PH135 and PH180 had a run with reverse polarity, and the MTH Z750 I remember as well.

John, I thought of that first...flipped the brick over, saw the 4 screws, the circuit breaker - and thought, "Do I really want to go into this?" I was hoping you would not suggest that. If I get time, I guess i know what should ideally be done. Thanks for the reply, Greg (I am lazy, I still might cut the cord!)