Are there significant differences between the two eras? (besides price!)
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MPC Budd cars had plastic gears in the power truck instead of metal, no horn, and rubber tires instead of Magne-Traction.
I dont know who made the ones I ran as a kid. I didnt have much interest in them. They were both cast AND extruded aluminum sheet metal locos though.(Auburn on the sheet metal?). Cast had lionel power for sure, and a dummy I think, but if lionel, basically highly modified anyhow. Kinda pulled like a powered B unit though, lol.
If early lionel bud is plastic, it was on a shelf....and I paid it no mind.
But the early "unit motor" types of pulmore are the best imo. Built with maximum overkill and "military machining tolerances" (There are 2 types of motors people call pulmor it comes down to the type 1 with seperate motor and truck assemblies is a more heavy duty and precision unit.)
Id have to guess the mpc is plastic and comparable to anything its size by mpc.
Marx had a plastic one, maybe Kusan too?..seems there was one more too; Sakai? Rivarossi?
I dont know who made the ones I ran as a kid. I didnt have much interest in them. They were both cast AND extruded aluminum sheet metal locos though.(Auburn on the sheet metal?). Cast had lionel power for sure, and a dummy I think, but if lionel, basically highly modified anyhow. Kinda pulled like a powered B unit though, lol
AMT Budd cars are made of plastic. I have several.
As GregR wrote:
MPC Budd cars have ZAMAC wheels and tire traction.
The MPC Budd cars do not have a horn.
Interesting to see if someone can compare the Lionel Postwar to mpc to Williams to MTH RailKing.
I've got the 400, 2559, and 2550 set. Also the 1977 SSS. Differences on the SSS include slightly modified fuel tanks, wider pilots, and larger lettering. The wide pilots are not my favorite look. Williams uses a different fuel tank and the car sits higher. RICH
Looking at the parts list for the post war 404 - a 100-4 E-unit is specified in the lionel parts page - but the diagram shows straight lever E-unit - like 100-5.
Will either one work?
I also noticed the diagram didn't specify the ground spring - is that also correct? Optional?
Have a clunker 404 and 400 shell - trying to take inventory - most everything was stripped!
Thanks!
Post War vs MPC..............
All PW items and diesels are 3 step. All MPC's are 2 step. Modern Lionel re-issue Budds went back to 3 step.
The MPC units do have the separate motor (nice).Run smooth and slow.
If you are concerned about the plastic gears, it should not be a problem if you are just pulling 2 or 3 non-powered Budds. I have not looked, do the MPC units have plastic gears?
Roving Sign,
Please contact me via my profile email if still looking for cheap freight cars.
Charlie
Jeff2035 posted:The MPC units do have the separate motor (nice).Run smooth and slow.
If you are concerned about the plastic gears, it should not be a problem if you are just pulling 2 or 3 non-powered Budds. I have not looked, do the MPC units have plastic gears?
Yes they do have plastic gears. And they will strip out even when running 2 non-powered Budd units.
Mike, thanks for the info on the gears.
I will run them solo and not pull non-powered Budd units.
CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:Jeff2035 posted:The MPC units do have the separate motor (nice).Run smooth and slow.
If you are concerned about the plastic gears, it should not be a problem if you are just pulling 2 or 3 non-powered Budds. I have not looked, do the MPC units have plastic gears?
Yes they do have plastic gears. And they will strip out even when running 2 non-powered Budd units.
The power truck assembly on the MPC Budd contains precisely the same type of plastic gears used on almost every modern era conventional diesel including Lionel's Lionchief line. With proper maintenance, including lubrication, the powered Budd cars can easily pull several non-powered units. I have several sets that have been running for many years pulling non-powered units, with no issues.
Sure they will run for awhile with no problem but for how long ?
The Budd cars were reissued in 1977. I saved a lot of paper route money to buy them. Four years later the gears started to slip along with a lot of MPC era engines. Mean while the post war stuff kept going. Along comes a company named Williams with engines with metal gears that don't stop. I stopped buying Lionel engines for 15 years. All these Williams engines are still running today.
Ah, those days of throwing a paper route and saving up money to buy a prized item.
And here's another pro tip... the MPC units are quite affordable. You can always replace the truck block with similar from a postwar unit. But an even better idea is to run TWO powered units and one unpowered in the middle (swap the shells.) Why? Because all of those vertical pullmors, including the ones built into the truck, have BACK-DRIVABLE gears. Two motors are better than one because they can help each other. These are 3-pole motors that are subject to "cogging" at low RPM's. With two motors, when one armature is stuck between the poles, the other motor might not be, and gives it a subtle nudge so the train will crawl much better than a single motored consist. It would run as smoothly as a postwar, dual-motored F-3 like a 2383.
Of course, you'll have to sync up the forward-neutral-reverse when you put them on the track, or you could run a wire harness through the unpowered car, and run both motors off of the same e-unit. A single e-unit has plenty of current capacity for both motors. The harness could also connect to all of the pickup rollers, to eliminate flickering lights and power loss on switches. For $250 or so, you would have one of the best RDC consists out there!
Good luck, let us know how it works out! -Ted
GregR posted:MPC Budd cars had plastic gears in the power truck instead of metal, no horn, and rubber tires instead of Magne-Traction.
Like others, I bought my MPC Budd Set with paper route and lawn cutting money when it came out in 1977. The other noteworthy part of my purchase was that it was the first time I was allowed to take the family car out for a solo drive. I am proud to say that my first solo trip driving a car was to go up to Hazlet Train Stop to take delivery of some Lionel trains, i.e., my MPC Budd Set.
I put many hours of run time on that set and I never had problems with the plastic gears. However, when I next take it out to run on the layout I'm building, I'd like to be prepared. Several commenters have noted that the plastic gears fail. My question is: Are the gears something that can be replaced (even with other plastic ones)? Or will I need to drop in an entirely new power truck?
Thanks in advance for everyone's help.
Steven J. Serenska
I put many hours of run time on that set and I never had problems with the plastic gears. However, when I next take it out to run on the layout I'm building, I'd like to be prepared. Several commenters have noted that the plastic gears fail. My question is: Are the gears something that can be replaced (even with other plastic ones)? Or will I need to drop in an entirely new power truck?
Sorry, but I do not have a Budd car handy to check, and I do not recall which gears are plastic.
If it's the pinion gears between the drive gear and the geared wheels, they can be replaced. The most difficult part would be spreading (or removing) the drive wheels so the pinion gears can be slipped off their shafts.
If it is either the worm wheel (gear) or the drive gear at the end of the worm wheel shaft, they are very easily replaced. That shaft, bushing, and drive gear just lift out of the truck block. As of this writing, replacement assemblies are still available. (Shown as separate parts below)
The shaft is accessed by removing the top plate, which is held on by one screw. 
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C W Burfle posted:I put many hours of run time on that set and I never had problems with the plastic gears. However, when I next take it out to run on the layout I'm building, I'd like to be prepared. Several commenters have noted that the plastic gears fail. My question is: Are the gears something that can be replaced (even with other plastic ones)? Or will I need to drop in an entirely new power truck?
Sorry, but I do not have a Budd car handy to check, and I do not recall which gears are plastic.
If it's the pinion gears between the drive gear and the geared wheels, they can be replaced. The most difficult part would be spreading (or removing) the drive wheels so the pinion gears can be slipped off their shafts.
If it is either the worm wheel (gear) or the drive gear at the end of the worm wheel shaft, they are very easily replaced. That shaft, bushing, and drive gear just lift out of the truck block. As of this writing, replacement assemblies are still available. (Shown as separate parts below)
The shaft is accessed by removing the top plate, which is held on by one screw.
CWB:
Thanks very much for all this info. I don't have the time to go upstairs and dig mine out of boxes, but the pictures I just looked at on eBay make it very clear that the drive gear on the side is white plastic. I couldn't find a photo that shows the pinion gears, so I'll have to wait and see. The worm wheel is hidden, of course, but to your point it looks like an easy replace.
Thanks very much for this info and for taking the time to post the parts diagram. I don't think I realized that the Budd car shared the same power unit assembly as the Rectifier. You learn something new every day...
Steven J. Serenska
Thanks again for the replies on this thread - lots of good info
Probably a poor choice of words on my part above when I say "everything was stripped"
I was referring to the parts missing when I pulled the shell - not the condition of the gears...sorry about that.
Lots of parts missing - No E-Unit, nothing left of the motor but the field coil winding, E-unit mount snapped off, no horn, no relay, power truck missing the nylon brushing and gear insert - (which I think was brass?) - other than that - well, pretty solid! 
So - Im looking at options as far as procuring parts...
Still wondering if I need the E-unit with the little bend on the end of the lever?
I don't think I realized that the Budd car shared the same power unit assembly as the Rectifier.
The same power block was also used on Geeps and single motor F3s.
The Postwar version carried a 2328 (Geep) part number.
The power block is a bit different on double motor F3's because it has to carry a pickup assembly, but the double motor F3 block would work in place of a Geep power block.
During the modern era there were variations in the types of wheels used (Zamac versus sintered iron) and the traction system (tires versus magnetraction).
