Nothing! Today was a joke. Haven't been in a few years but today was not even worth calling a show or meet. Saying that it's no York is the biggest understatement of the year.... decade maybe.

If that is true, your boxes might be the only thing I buy.

For me too, it was the slowest Saturday sales I've had in years.  Seems like fewer attendees and little buying interest.  But there's still hope as there is still tomorrow.

I completely agree that it was slow. I think the only activity were the buyers buying from other buyers. Not good. Same faces but far fewer faces than in previous years. I have heard that there are many from the San Fernando valley and westward that refuse to drive to Ontario and say a lot of negative comments. What a shame. I found several things that I could not live without....or so. Several other friends spent a decent amount on some standard gauge. 

I hope tomorrow will be better.

Waste of the $30,00 registration. No BIG Vendors just  pre- post war and tin plate. Hardly any !/48 scale, especially of any road names we run in so Cal. NOTHING like they use to have in Pasadena. Plus it was like a meat locker in the building. Prolly be my last visit. 

I am not a vendor, so my view is somewhat different (selling trains is something I will leave to my heirs to take care of).

 

I had a great time at Cal Stewart.  Ran the floor layout all day with my buddies, talked to old friends, met some new friends, picked up a new 400E, and had a great time.   The meet was well run and organized.

 

There was a lot of postwar O-Gauge, original a repro standard gauge.

 

As far as the drive goes-I live in Alhambra about six miles from the Pasadena location. Even though I now have to drive a ways now, I don't mind a bit.  Well worth it, IMHO!

Just returned for cal-stewart and yes there were some empty tables, but the people I talked with were selling stuff.  I saw plenty of items leaving with happy people.  I got some flat cars,  two O-scale haulers and wife got some china.  The big dealers were in northern ca at the GTE.

Today was a much better day for all the sellers. A lot more customers with the half price entry fee.

Thank you BigDodgeTrain....nice to finally meet you and your wife. I always wondered who cl was in my email inbox

$30 to get in and way out in the sticks, it seems their trying their level best to kill Cal Stewart. What were they thinking?

Bought a O Scale Hauler, Thanks Doug!

I consider it a good day when you come home with 5 K-Line Cars and you are super happy to have them. My Dad bought the 19th Century reefer, now MTH needs to make more Ten Wheelers for freight for all these cars I now have.

You forgot the $9 PER DAY PARKING... even for the sellers.  

No offense to all who attended as vendors and/or buyers, but for me it was all of the rules, combined with a take-it-or-don't- come ticket structure that made it an easy pass for me. Making people pay $30 for both days when they only wanted to come on Saturday told me the promoters didn't really care if the public came or not. The long drive out to Ontario, plus a $9 parking fee, and a $30 admission totals at least $50-60- cheaper to buys trains online or even at the local train store.

 

I understand the schedule for vendors to keep the show orderly, but Cal-Steward seems clearly set up for club members to buy/sell from each other first, and whatever is left can be sold to the general public. MTH, Lionel, K-Line, Atlas have been making O gauge trains in both traditional and scale sizes for 25-30 years, so much of it can be bought new or used online or though dealers. I'm sure Postwar and Standard gauge is also popular, but without variety and by making the event tailored to "the regulars" doesn't show me a bright future for Cal-Stewart. JMO.

 

Geno.

Slowest Cal-Stewart I have ever been to. Hall was empty most of the time both days. Had a good time hanging out with TTOS buddies and seeing old friends. Managed to get some deals on tinplate Saturday. Some dealers were having fire sales. Scored a Standard Gauge roundhouse, 4 sections, for $450 inexcellent condition. Still, it was sad to see the meet getting smaller and less significant. I hope a change in attitude/vision/leadership will revive this show. People will drive if the show is worth it, but many vendors said this might be their last. I hope not.

 

Bob

It was slow and I was truly sad to see this. Several problems with the show structure do include that club members do get some preferential treatment. While this can be a plus it also can be tough on those that are not club members. The trading rules I think were meant to level the playing field for everyone but maybe not so much now.

 

As far as trains go there just was not a lot of things that might get my attention and I have a wide variety of what I look for. I did get a pre-war Lionel engine that I did not have, an Ives to work on (actually mostly Steve Eastman as I learn), a Dorfan engine that we shall see, and a couple of little things. If you wanted Standard Gauge, Pre-war, or postwar Lionel and S gauge it was okay.

 

Nothing really unusual.

 

This is the problem. The public that would come in really has no clue on the trains that were being sold. Looking for Fastrack? Not going to find a whole lot. Looking for TMCC, DCS, or Legacy engines, controls, etc? Nope. Looking for scale stuff? Not there.

 

That is the problem. Just nothing that is enough to bring in people and keep them there. I am not sure of the answer but I am sure it cannot continue if it goes like this. Everyone was friendly and did their best to accommodate everyone but tempers flared and we were all packed up very quickly. Not good. I do hope it gets better. 

Out of my 4 I have attended, this one was the worst. It looked like more layouts took over vendor spaces. Sad part is it look like everyone was cleaning their closet out, older looking stuff and looked beat up. Just pretty happy that I found some quality K-Line Pieces to add to my collection 

I attended the GTE show in Pleasanton on Saturday.  There weren't any "big" vendors at this show either.  Attendance was good Saturday morning.  The two halls were pretty much empty Saturday afternoon.  Most of the things being sold were HO and other smaller scales.  There was much more small scale stuff for sale than O gauge.  G gauge was also well represented. 

 

The second hall was filled with modular layouts.  There was only one vendor in that hall.  A third of the first hall was also filled with modular layouts.  

 

I had a good time at the show visiting with friends.  Several of them got some very good deals on HO stuff.  I picked up some books and a DVD for Christmas presents.  The modular layouts were very good.  I enjoyed seeing them and talking with the builders / operators.

 

It was beautiful day in the SF Bay Area with temperatures in the 70s all weekend.  I have noticed that shows get better attendance when the weather is bad.  I believe that people want to do outdoor activities when the weather is good.

 

NH Joe

Yes attendance has dwindled each year since I have been going. Must be my fault . In reality it is a issue common to most club events.

To criticize them for moving to Ontario is a bit unrealistic. Costs in Pasadena were getting out of hand and under construction at the time. Parking there is a pain. The loading dock was a big pain. Ontario is much easier. Pasadena parking is $12.00, Ontario is $9.00.

Complaining about the type of products for sale is somewhat out of the clubs hands. It's the sellers, not the club.

Lots of original tinplate this year, O & Std, very little modern era.

Only picked up a few items this weekend.All in all, still a fun weekend.

I went to Cal-Stewart last year.  I was told by a long time attendee that the reason the event was moved to Ontario from Pasadena was that the rental rates in Pasadena had become much too high.

 

This is the same reason that the Northern CA Cal-Stewart meet has been moved from Santa Clara to San Ramon.  The Santa Clara site is directly across the street from the new 49ers Stadium.  Rental rates for the Santa Clara convention center and hotel are almost triple what they were before the Stadium opened last year.  For example, there was an article in the paper that the average hotel rate in the area around the stadium has gone from about $100 to $300 per night.  Parking is no longer free at the Santa Clara convention center.  

 

The people who organize and run these events should be congratulated for keeping them going in the face of escalating costs.

 

NH Joe

Nobody's show is worth $30.00 and then a parking fee as well. No thanks. Not even for York.

I want to congratulate the Cal-Stewart members who put this show on.

Wish other people would get involved in their area and put on a show. 

They would then realize how difficult it can be.

Enjoy the shows and stop complaining.HAVE FUN ( if you can )

 

 

Jim,

 

How would you suggest that the show sponsors pay for the hall, security, and the other costs?  The Cal-Stewart is put on by a club not a for profit business with deep pockets.  

 

Most of the table holders are fellow train collectors and modelers just like you.  You can't over charge them because there wouldn't be any profit.  I had a table at the last Cal-Stewart.    I lost money.  The only way to attract sellers is to keep table prices reasonable.  

 

The $30 fee goes to cover costs.  When you think about it, $30 is less than the cost of a new plastic boxcar from any manufacturer.  The parking fee goes to the facility not the show sponsors.  The sponsor would prefer it if the parking was free.  The show sponsors are lucky to break even.  Train clubs can not afford to go broke putting on shows.

 

Interacting with your fellow collectors and modelers may not be worth $30 to you.  So be it.  It is worth it to me even though I lost money because my sales were poor.  Last year most sellers had poor sales as far as I could determine by talking to them.  We had a lot of time to talk because sales were so slow.  

 

I suspect that most table holders lost money this year based on the posts above.  We are lucky to have people come to sell at these events and display modular layouts.

 

NH Joe

 

 

This was our third Cal-Stewart as we have only been into model railroad for three years. Each visit has been a disappointment. We model modern with tmcc and legacy and that is just not there. This year we spent $3. I am surprised so many people make an issue about Ontario, as we find it convienent even tho our drive is over 1 1/2 hours each way if the traffic is good. If you find $9 to much for parking try Dodger Stadium or Anaheim. My heartburn is with the entry fee. I do not understand the clubs reasoning for charging Saturdays visitors for 2 days. We would have come on Sunday to avoid that but it was not possible so we had to pay the penalty for having family on Sunday. If you ask me today I would say we will not be going to any more Cal-Stewart shows.

 

There have been 43 Cal-Stewart Meets in SoCal.  I have had the privilege of attending 43 of them – so, my turn to pontificate.  This may get a little “long in the tooth,” but every “poster” deserves mention and answering comments.

 

A hardy THANK YOU to “New Haven Joe”, Steve "Papa" Eastman, aznjbill, and Bruce Jacobsen for your positive comments.  They were the “voices of reason” and well presented.  I hope everyone will read them – they are “the rest of the story”.

 

Laidoffsick: Sorry you were disappointed.  You posted: “No “big vendors?”  New Haven Joe posted: “I attended the GTE show in Pleasanton on Saturday (same Saturday as our show).  There weren't any "big" vendors at this show either.”  You posted: “Plus it was like a meat locker in the building.”  No one brought that to my attention.  On Sunday, I noted some of the women shivering.  Contacted the Event Manager who had heat flowing within five minutes – gotta speak up man!  As for the $9 parking - please help find a “comparable” venue with cheaper parking.  Also, if you stay (princely sum of $69 a night) at the adjacent Ayres Hotel or the across the street Radisson – parking is free (making it like $60 a night) hardly worth deriving home.

 

Captaincog: You posted: “Same faces but far fewer faces than in previous years.”  REALITY CHECK - get used to it Jeff.  Unless we can attract younger people – it probably will not get much better.  For the first time in memory, there were several cancelations the week before (one even the evening before)) the show (deaths in the family, arthritis to the point of not being able to man their tables, having to go out-of-state to care for an elderly relative, simply feeling no longer able to navigate etc.).  You mention no modern train controls for sale.  I purchased a Legacy control set as late as 1PM on Sunday.  During the show I saw a recent edition of the ZW for sale along with various DCS control items.  You mentioned “we were all packed up very quickly”.  It goes like this.  I was contacted by your Cal-Stewart event group organizer who informed me that “the guys” did not want to bring their own tables to support their modules.  He asked if I could help.  I responded that could happen for our “table cost” (have since learned the delivery cost was not included – so ya really got’em for 56¢ less per table than our cost, but then we love you guys).  Our outside table vendor had to clear tables from the hall by a certain time as we would be charged $450 per hour if we went over our allotted event time.  You state: “Several problems with the show structure do include that club members do get some preferential treatment.”  Enlighten me, cause I did not get any of that treatment.  If you are referring to trading that might occur during Friday set-up – you are invited to establish a “security brigade” ,to monitor the hall on that day.  We were able to find enough volunteers to do that one year in Pasadena and it was very effective.

 

bigdodgetrain:  You posted: “Just returned for cal-stewart and yes there were some empty tables, but the people I talked with were selling stuff.  I saw plenty of items leaving with happy people.”  Thank you for the positive post.  There were about the same number of tables as last year.  On Sunday some sellers left early – stated they were just too old to drive at night.

 

Dennis Rempel:  You posted:  “$30 to get in and way out in the sticks, it seems their trying their level best to kill Cal Stewart. What were they thinking?”  Hey guy, had the event stayed in Pasadena, it would have been closer to $40 admission, more expensive parking, and more expensive nearby hotels.  Please find a “comparable” venue in your “neck-of-the woods” – we will be greatful!

 

CP BOB:  You posted: “I hope a change in attitude/vision/leadership will revive this show“.  Ah, you being a teacher sounds like you could be just the man to come forward and provide that changed attitude/vision/leadership combination.  The BOD meets next on December 9^th @ 7PM in Pasadena.  Looking forward to your “revitalizing” presentation.

 

72blackbird:  You posted:  “Making people pay $30 for both days when they only wanted to come on Saturday told me the promoters didn't really care if the public came or not.  NOT TRUE – THEY CARE, but when less than $15 per day was charged - a significant number choose to come on the cheaper day thus, it would be necessary to make up the lost income by raising the admission for those coming both days.

 

I notice no one was critical of the “Welcoming Party” which is a dinner held on Friday night.  It was buffet style consisting of: Santa Maria tri-tip & pan seared pesto chicken (you could have both) with all the side “goodies”.  Desert was a piece of chocolate cake & a piece of cheese cake (Don Ladenberg & Larry Pearson spent $226.25 of their own money to provide each attendee with the second piece of cake).  The cost to attendees was $20 for those with full Cal-Stewart registration (the Division subsidized their meal by $10) and $30 for those not with full registration.  BTW, there was enough food for seconds.  On Saturday night, the Radisson hotel (right across the street) offered a Prime Rib dinner for $16.99 to any Cal-Stewart attendee.  Try to find those deals anywhere else.

 

In conclusion, a bunch of work goes into each Cal-Stewart Meet - READ - endless hours by volunteers.  BTW, even the members of the BOD attending are required to pay the $30 admission.  The Division considers it “good fortune” when if breaks even financially.

Maybe a solution would be for TTOS/TCA get together with The great train show in Long beach when they have a show.

Now that I am in DC I am back at the York and Greenberg shows which are still busy shows.

I guess the big dealer some are talking about are "public delivery track" and "K & R lines"?

Beth has missed the last couple of years, and not sure about Ken. 

 

Surfliner: I appreciate the time and effort to put on the show. I never complained about the venue, admission price, parking, or driving distance. By the time the auction started on Sat, the place was practically empty. Sellers were complaining about the lack of people and something had to change. It was not just one seller that stated this. I have been going about 8 years, and it is sad to see the show dying. For me, this was the mecca of train shows (can't get to York). I don't have all the answers, but doing the same thing just because it has been done that way for many years is clearly not working.

 

Bob

I appreciate the assistance with the tables and I am sorry to hear it was not a break even cost on that. As far as leaving I do not think anyone was truly aware of the 1 hour limit to get the tables cleared. I do see it in the registration form now but frankly I do not think many people were aware of it. My question is what happens when someone shows up at 2pm on Sunday and they see a lot of empty tables. I pointed out to those that came up to the layout complaining other areas that were full to address the issue at the time.

 

What I mean by that some club members do preferential treatment is as far as them dealing with the attendees. My personal view is that anyone who is selling should have their tables manned, not just when their friends show up and then leave. Those tend to be the same people that complain about low sales. Preferential treatment in my mind applies to the entry. Club members will usually spend the $30 but families that are just coming for one day are reluctant to pay the $30 and I am not sure of the $15 Sunday only admission was a big success. The selling that happens during setup is hard to control at best and was not that bad this year compared to other years.

 

My post was only intended as constructive and nothing more. I agree with the aging population of enthusiasts but there are people out there that do collect trains or maybe want to so I truly hope that Cal Stewart is successful and everyone finds a way to bring new people in. 

I am seeing the same thing at Cal Stewart in Nor Cal,I went to the last one in Santa Clara two years ago and it was beyond disappointing,it moved to San Ramon in 2015 and I passed on attending,just not enough product of interest for me.

Mikey

It is discouraging to hear the negative talk about putting on something like Cal-Stewart which involves a lot of volunteer hours doing many thankless tasks, like finding a hall in the right location, and juggling the associated finances in making it all work, as you mentioned security, personnel to man it, advertising, directions, hotels, etc.

I think it is true about attendance going down and maybe it’s because a lot of us who are old enough to have had model and toy trains as a focal point of our young lives, which we carried into adult hood, are dying off. There are still a lot of trains sold but perhaps it is a different market (the operators?) than us old train collectors.

I feel it changing as I was around when Bill Harris formed TTOS back in 1966 I believe, along with Ed and Betty Warner, in the back of Bill’s piano tuning shop on south Pasadena Ave. I became associate member #7 if I remember correctly.

True, the Cal Stewarts of the late eighties and early nineties were a joy to attend. Where else, with the exception of York, could I buy a new Lionel scale Pennsy S-2 turbine and have Richard Kaughun himself explain the effort in getting it made.

I don’t do much collecting anymore and I’m down to my few choice pieces but nevertheless, I still enjoy taking in Cal Stewart and thank those who go through the effort to make it happen.

I can certainly understand the thought that if the show no longer holds an interest than why go. But that certainly does not help the organization and those who put it on. There may come a time when it is no longer feasible.

BTW, I liked the displays that are very often put on at Cal Stewart, like the display of variations in Lionel rolling stock at this one, or the display several years ago of variations in NYC Hudsons modeled over the years.

Its not just Cal-Stewart where these things are common any more... it's the era. Even York has lower attendance, and missing vendors for 1 reason or another. Vendors you used to see at every show, no longer go, as they are lucky to break even.

 

Swap meets have always been to known to have a lot of the same people trying to sell the same crap, show after show after show. I've been going to train shows of all scales since the 80's. Yeah I know, not that long compared to some of you, but it just gets worse as the years go by. I can take all the nice, scale, weathered stuff to any show I want, doesn't mean anyone is going to buy it. Some of the stuff at these shows I want to buy just to throw it in a dumpster so I don't have to see it again.  

I would like to go to Cal-Stewart someday... looks like it is a 1600 mile drive for me.  But, tinplate and I get to meet some internet train friends in person?  Sounds like a good deal to me... 

James,

The NorCal Cal-Stewart would be a heck of alot closer.

I haven't been to a Cal Stewart or Nor Cal since I moved back East, but I frequented both back in the 90's.  Interesting to hear all of the criticism.  I may make an effort to attend the Nor Cal sometime as I have friends in San Ramon.  I really enjoyed both shows and back then there were usually competing vendors of new product, particularly of the MTH variety.  Lionel, K-Line and others had displays as well. I liked the old venues, but understand the need for change.  Miss being a member of the TTOS, and the great display known as the Toy Train Parade at the California RR museum (I lived in Folsom near Old Sac.)  Hope the shows survive a few more years. 

 

As the crow flies, Nor Cal would be a bit closer, but if the crow had to drive across the fruited plains and over/around the purple mountains majesty like I have to, Cal-Stewart is actually closer (Google Maps sure does make it easy to figure those things out).  I will put both on my "Must Visit" list, though...

Bob,

You state you do not have all the answers.  O.K.  We will settle for those you have.  You state: “but doing the same thing just because it has been done that way for many years is clearly not working.”  My email address is in my profile.  Please forward any innovative ideas, suggestions, whatever – we appreciate input – our “idea well” is in a drought!