Can I put an MTH PS1 smoke unit in my Lionel TMCC F3?

First off, the PS/1 smoke unit is pretty large.  Why not consider the Lionel rectangular smoke unit, it also is self-contained and will run off track power.  Better yet, why not run it off the smoke output of the ERR board, that way you have control of smoke from the remote?  It's also the smoke unit that's probably in the unpowered A unit.

Hi GunrunnerJohn,

Thanks for the reply.  I don't know the part number of the Lionel unit.  Also, I'll have to find out if the ERR boards that the shop installed has a smoke unit output.  If not, I can try the track power option.  Do you know the part number of the Lionel smoke unit?  If it's the same one that's in the non-powered A unit, I can look it up since I have the parts lists for all of that set of engines.

If they installed any of the ERR standard product line, there is a smoke output.  Since this unit originally came with a smoke unit with the voltage regulator, you clearly won't be using the same one as the unpowered A, you don't have the regulator now.  This is the one I'm suggesting, it should mount the same as it's the same form factor as the stock one.

Of course it would be nice if the outfit that did the upgrade gave you back the smoke unit, then you could just change the resistor and use the factory one.

I have the parts from the original smoke unit and I have some 27 ohm resistors. I'll have to see if the original smoke unit looks serviceable and then I can  find out where the connections should be.  If not serviceable, I'll see if I can get the one you posted.  Can it run off track power if necessary?

Thanks,

Lonnie

I see that Brasseur has the smoke unit for $30.  All I would need is where to pick up the necessary inputs.

It can, but you may need a series diode just to cut down the heat.  18 volts on a 27 ohm resistor is 12 watts, way too much for that smoke unit.  You will not need to run on track power, I can assure you that the ERR products all have smoke capability!  I've installed a ton of them, and I'm assuming what you have is the ERR Cruise Commander or DC Commander based on what it's installed in.  In either case, the Feature output is the smoke connection.

I just found out that I have a DC Commander with a Legacy brain board.  The shop said to call Ken at Electric Railroad to find out where to connect everything.

My old smoke unit has two connectors, a two pin and a three pin.

Lonnie posted:

I just found out that I have a DC Commander with a Legacy brain board.  The shop said to call Ken at Electric Railroad to find out where to connect everything.

There's no mystery, and the documentation is available for the DC commander on the ERR site.  I can't imagine why you have to bother Ken with this, it connects just as I said it does.  The smoke common goes to frame ground and the smoke hot goes to the feature connection shown below.

This is the DC Commander.

Hi,

The shop owner is the one that suggested talking to Ken at ERR.  I found the AC/DC manual online and printed it.  My concern is not with the ERR end of things, it's the smoke unit end.  They disconnected all connections on the smoke unit.  From your picture I can see that the two pin connector goes up to the fan and it appears that the input from the AC/DC board goes to the pin nearest the cap and ground goes to the middle pin.  I saw the note not to ground the smoke unit to the AC/DC Commander itself.  Thanks for all of your help.  I have a computer electronics background, but I was used to having circuit diagrams in front of me.

Note that the smoke unit does have a ground and hot terminal.  On the three pin connector, the hot is either of the outer pins and the ground is the middle pin.  The middle pin is grounded to the smoke unit metal base, and will likely be frame ground.  I strongly suggest running a ground wire anyway.

Thanks for the wiring note.  I won't get to test it until tomorrow night.  I have to fly a quick trip to Ft. Collins, CO and back to Las Vegas tomorrow.  I  am a reserve co-pilot on a corporate jet.  The shop that did the conversion has been trying to find a smoke unit.  I wish I had posted my question back in September when they did the swap.  I would have had the problem resolved for almost six months by now.

They haven't tried very hard, you can order them from Lionel.  If you're a dealer, you even get a nice price break on the outrageous $30 price, so I'd suggest they work a bit harder.  I have several of those in my parts box.

Hi,

Since you've been so helpful, I'd like to buy one of your smoke units.  Mine looks old and beat up, so a nice clean one would work out nicely.  Will you provide me with the information, please?

Thanks,

Lonnie

I'm not really selling them, they're my shop stock for repairs and upgrades.  I'm just telling you that they're readily available.

Okay, thanks,

I'll go to Brasseur.

Lonnie

Hi GUNRUNNERJOHN,

The smoke unit puts out tons of smoke.  I used my old smoke unit but changed the resistor to 27 ohms.  I had to jumper around some of the lans patterns since there were a couple of opens.  Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.  This was one of those rare occasions that didn't cost me any money.

Lonnie

It's always good when a plan comes together.

Hi GUNRUNNERJOHN,

You helped me a year ago with the F3’s rectangular smoke unit.  I just ordered a new 27 ohm unit and I was wondering about the three pin connector.  With one pin connected to the output of the ERR Feature output, I would only get smoke or with the other pin connected I would only get the fan.  I had to jumper the inputs together to get both smoke and fan.  Was there something wrong with that smoke unit?

It is set up with separate connections for smoke and fan so the unit can be used in diesels or steam locos where it has to make puffs of smoke rather than run continuous as in a diesel.   J

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It can, but you may need a series diode just to cut down the heat.  18 volts on a 27 ohm resistor is 12 watts, way too much for that smoke unit.  You will not need to run on track power, I can assure you that the ERR products all have smoke capability!  I've installed a ton of them, and I'm assuming what you have is the ERR Cruise Commander or DC Commander based on what it's installed in.  In either case, the Feature output is the smoke connection.

12W too much?! I'll show you too much

Hi John, Thanks for your reply.  I can assume then that since the smoke unit was used in a diesel, the inputs had to be jumpered together for continuous smoke and fan.

Yes, you can jumper them.  I have just converted a MTH PS1  Southern Pacific GS4 Daylight loco to TMCC and used the original  smoke unit. These early versions of ProtoSounds did not even bother to pulse the fan in sync with the chuff sound The smoke unit runs off straight track voltage with no provision for pulsing the fan.  What I did was cut a wire between the voltage regulator and the fan motor and run those connections to a relay that is triggered by a magnetic reed switch and 4 magnets on the back side of a drive wheel.  You will not have to go to such trouble on your diesel but sooner or later may want to convert a steam loco and may run upon this same problem.   j.

Thanks, John.  It's good to know that I didn't break any rules by jumpering the fan and resistor inputs together.