Changing Scaletrax for Atlas code 148 with third rail

Keep us posted. Atlas Code 148 (except turnouts) seems to work pretty well with a lot of hi-rail wheels.

I'm in the process of converting all rolling stock to two rail wheels. The locomotive drivers will have to remain with 3 rail flanges. I think I'm going to custom build the turnouts I replace.

Very interesting...keep us posted on your progress.

This really does sound like a path to more realistic track.  You can always take a bit of metal off flanges with a Dremel tool.  Use it with care, and use coarse Craytex (sp?)  held at an angle so the wheels rotate.

Once you get to 2- rail flanges and realistic looking ties and rail, you should ask yourself why you really need that center rail?  If the answer is that you like the way it looks, then all this effort makes sense.

Marker, thanks for the benefit of your experience. It was your posts that inspired me to do this. I've got a Lionel scale ABBA and sure enough it walks on the spikes. I've been trying to get NWSL to cut me some scale wheels. The dummy units are no problem, but the power units I don't know.

Bob2, I like the 3 rail electronics, TMCC, and the railsound units and I love the simplicity of the wiring.

Your track looks pretty good. If I were in your shoes my response to Bob would have been that it is much cheaper to add the center rail as you have done than convert the 3 rail steam/diesel locomotives you own to 2 rail because I am sure your realize that the 3 rail electronics, TMCC, and the railsound units work perfectly in 2 rail. They are not dependent on the number of rails. Wiring in 2 rail is no longer as difficult as it used to be due to advancements in technology.

It is the cost of conversion that is a killer. Not that the guys who do this type of work aren't worth the money but if only it weren't so labor intensive and the cost of conversion was less then just maybe 2 rail might be a little more desirable for some hobbyists.

Ron - the secret is that TMCC, railsounds, smoke units, et.al., have no way of knowing whether you use a center rail or not.  Some do know whether you use AC or DC, but even that is independent of the number of rails.  I have a 2- rail Hudson with DCS.

The complexity of building a 3-rail switch with proper flange widths out of Code 148 puts the complexity of wiring 2- rail track in a compartment about two orders of magnitude easier.  And you are starting with an insulated locomotive, so the expense of two-railing is not an issue.  I agree - converting twenty large 3-rail locomotives is a daunting task.

I've been trying to get NWSL to cut me some scale wheels

Ron - I don't know if the service is still available or even if it can be done, but Al Zamorski of Millhouse River Studio, the turntable maker,  (a.zamorski@studiozphoto.com) had a friend that was able to turn down wheels to a better profile.  You might email Al and see if that can still be done.  If you do and it can be done, please post.  I'd be interested.

I contacted Al from Millhouse Studios as suggested by marker. He performs this service for $40 plus shipping. [At least I do not think return shipping is including in the $40 price] The user has to dissasemble the locomotive (which I think is much better because it cuts down on shipping costs and on the chance of damage to the locomotive in transit) and send the wheels to Al.

This is great from a scale 3 rail perspective as now any locomotive can have the flanges turned down so they will run on lower code rail. The process isn't overly expensive and will not make the minimum radius of the locomotive increase.

From a 2 rail perspective this would only apply to MTH 3/2 locomotives because as you all know the rest of the 3 rail locomotives do not have insulated axles. Of course the 2 railer would have to be willing to accept any wheels that do not have flanges on them at all.

Marker, thanks for posting about Al's service. It is good to know this service is available.

Hudson - Thanks for checking that out.  That's a good to hear.  I didn't know if that was still available.

OK, mother's day duties are over and I could get back to work. Decided to try code 55 N-rail for center rail. There are two videos to show the smoothness. I'll finish probably tomorrow and I can get some highball passes.

I contacted Allen of Millhouse about grinding my Lionel F3 wheels. Thanks for the info.

That's really nice Ron. In the 2nd video clip the center rail is very difficult to see.

Great whistle in the Hudson. What sound set is that?

Hi C.Sam,

The whistle is Lionels new large locomotive railsound. It sounds like the UP FEF.

When I finish and darken the ballast and run an oil stipe down the center of the rail, I think the center rail will all but vanish. I've got a new camera that shoots much better movies that I'll try to start shooting with it.

Ron that's very nice, I like the final look.

That's impressive. Did you use Neolube to darken the Code 55 rail?

Ron H,

What technique did you use fastening the Code 55 center rails to the ties?  Did you have to elevate them to be at the same height as the outside rails?

Steve

Here is a photo of how the code 55 rail rises up to meet the Scaletrax on the bridge.

Rough here, but with some grinding will be smooth.

The center pickups readily extend down to the very low code 55 between the rails.

Wow, nice Job Ron!  That Code 55 is a step up, or should I say down.

The center pickups readily extend down to the very low code 55 between the rails.

I put a groove in the ties for the center for my Code 100 rail.  Rollers on some equipment (Atlas CZ passenger cars for one) don't drop down enough for good contact.

It is a problem with solutions, but you don't get a free pass for all rollers. 

Something I'm wondering about (since I haven't wired it in yet) is whether MTH DCS will have issues with unequal resistance in the rails (for both of us).  Just a thought because such a big deal is made about equal wiring lengths.  I'll find out soon enough.

Marker,

I don't know about resistance equalization and I'm not really worried about it. Too technical for me. I am going to convert all of my passenger cars to battery power for the lights with an on off switch. The only remaining pickups will be the locomotives.

The long lighted passenger trains really eat up the juice.

Thanks again for pointing the way on this type of conversion.

There's a way around the rail resistance issue. An old school trick for handling voltage drop across the track was to place the positive/hot contact at one end of the block and the negative/ground contact at the other end of the block. What this does is ensure that the amount of rail through which the current has to travel to reach the locomotive is consistent throughout the block. Could be just as easily applied in a 3-rail context using the center rail and one of the running rails.

I am going to convert all of my passenger cars to battery power for the lights with an on off switch.

Good idea.  I am considering the same thing with the CZ cars as a starter since it's already equipped, my 3rd Rail passenger cars are fine. All the engines I've tried Atlas, MTH, Lionel, Weaver, and 3rd Rail, haven't had pickup roller problems.  

Don't some modelers use magnetic switches which allow the use of a magnetic wand to turn the lights on and off?  I think I read somewhere that battery powered lighted cars are better for scale modelers using DCC.  I've only just started exploring DCC.

Howard  

I agree. The center rail is hard to see it that video. Very good looking track Ron.

Each loop around the wall is about 58 feet and I run feeders every 4 to 5 feet branching off of two heavy gauge master lines under the loops. Shouldn't that solve any resistance problems?

By the way, thanks for all the positive comments.

Finally finished. here are two high speed test runs to make sure all is ok before ballasting and detailing.

Whew!  You guys may have really started something here...

We're all eagerly awaiting the ballasted and weathered track!

So if batteries will illuminate the cars, why can't batteries and R/C run the locomotives? And wouldn't that be easier than adding a small center rail?  Or did I already post that?

Sorry . . .

Bob,

battery operating the trains is easy to do and cheap. I have all the stuff do to it from racing RC cars and flying RC aerobatics and jets. You can buy all the stuff you need not counting sound system for probably 60 bucks for the radio gear and 30 or 40 bucks for a mini high powered Lilon battery. Oh, you need a good charger for maybe a 100 dollars.

Anyway, I don't have time to pursue that now, but part of my strategy in installing the code 148 2 rail and the itty bitty 3rd rail is so I can convert quickly in the future. If I so desire.

I think it is time Lionel and MTH pursue scale track and wheels. Lionel and MTH turn me off because they won't even do the valve gear right on their scale locomotives when they could and should.

Today I'm happy with the 3 rail electronics. I've got a 1960s 275 watt ZW that powers everything, no sweat, and TMCC. Life is good.

How about having battery powered locos which are charges by ower in the track?  Best of both worlds, and you don't have to worry about dead spots on the track.

Dominic,

That would be cool, but the power densities in the Lipo and Lilon batteries is so great the chargers have computers in them to manage the cells. Therefore you would have another computer to lay into the loco. The new high power batteries can be small enough to put in the tender and leave plenty of room for everything else.

Today is detail day and ballast day. Due to this being a new project and haste I had too much overspray and other  visible problems, so out came the ,oh so rare, special track spray, special formula and masking. Here are shots of the process. Also a picture of my sadly neglected Warhorse wanting a bath.

Pretty much done

Very nice Ron.  ..and an awful lot accomplished in a short time!

Can you post a few pics from about 12" up angled down at the trains (not from directly overhead) please?