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Good evening,

So, the extent of my O-Gauge railroading knowledge is the 1970s-ish Lionel Rock Island Express train that we would put around our Christmas tree when I was a kid.  Fast forward to today, and we recently purchased a MTH Norfolk & Western J-Class 611 train with ProtoSound (model #20-3024-1). I bought it from a collector who is downsizing his huge collection, so there was no transformer or controller that came with the train.  My question is what exactly do I need to be able to run this train?  Clearly, the old transformer that came with my 1970s Lionel train will not work with this, but I have no idea what I would need to get this working.  Thanks in advance for any help anyone could give.

-Jason

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OK, for starters your engine is ProtoSound 1. It is conventional, meaning you basically need only a transformer. I would strongly suggest you replace the battery NOW before attempting to power it up. You risk the "Three Clanks of Death" (check out the link) if you power up with a dead battery.

As for transformers, you have lots of choices. In general the MTH engines do not do well with the Lionel CW80 transformer. Other than that, you've got a ton of choices.  I have run engines on one mainline of our club's modular layout (back when it measured 20'x30') with a MTH Z1000. If you've got a small to mid-sized layout, that would probably be a good place to start.

Everyone loves the big transformers, so you're sure to get recommendations for the MTH Z4000.

Last edited by Gilly@N&W

If it does have issues, all is not lost.

  From a $5 fix to make it go forward (only; toggle for rev.), to electronic reverse board, to added low budget sounds or complete update to newer boards and control you may not believe till tried; there are options galore today.

The old transformer may or may not be large enough. List the transformers number and/ or a good description. (Small black plastic case and side mounted throttle is dc and not enough juice. Except for a few starter sets, O gauge uses a.c. volts ... Dc won't harm an a.c. train, but may make a horn blow nonstop; the motor will run.)

Conversly,  Put a dc motor on a.c. and that one will fry. Always best to ask before buying another till you get things straight yourself.  Don't be shy, just ask. 

 Post gets no answer? Likely a fluke and just bad timing, try again the next day. Folks aren't left hanging on purpose. A hot post could be distracting folks, maybe a ball game, or big train show, etc etc.

  Jumping back in with a J is just plain cool  

The damage MAY occur with bad derailment. There is nothing explicitly going to damage anything by running something new with simething old. Lots of folks are still using PW power to run modern trains every day.

The bigest difference is the speed at which a modern unit can switch to off. I.E. the breaker speed is controlled by electronics vs a thermal strip.   Aftermarket breakers can greatly inhance an old transformer. Adding TVS (transient voltage suppressor, small like a diode, cheap insurance) can also help. (with new& old)

That said, a new one isn't a bad idea, but I'm not gonna suggest it until the loco is seen to run.   Then again MTH tends to be a lttle more sensative than Lionel and it's your wallet. Just be aware of the what and why of broad statements...even mine

50w (if thats it) is kinda small, but even 25w will work for careful testing at least as the modern locos tend to be much more efficient than old postwar locos. You will likely want at least close to 100w for very good performance.  Even bigger for great.  (Nobody really complains "I bought too much power"

Protosound is a QSIndustries electronic reverse and sound system that consists of solid-state circuit boards. It is designed for Lionel Electrical Operating Standards (L.E.O.S.). It is designed for postwar transformers that produce full-sine wave AC. Many modern transformers produce "chopped" sine wave AC that can damage or destroy QSI boards. A MTH Z4000 is a modern version of postwar transformers. Each throttle has a "Program" button to access QSI features.

FIRST, replace the rechargeable battery with a BCR [Battery Component Replacement]:  (www.jandwelectronics.com). Apply 10 volts for 1 minute and a locomotive is ready to run.

SECOND, get a Z4000 or a larger Lionel postwar transformer to run that J.

THIRD, be careful. QSI discontinued 3-rail systems when MTH introduced ProtoSound 2 and DCS (Digital Command System). The earlier system was then called ProtoSound-1 or PS-1 - here on the OGR Forum, I think. Those names are not printed on MTH boxes. "Chopped" sine wave AC can damage or destroy QSI systems.

Like athletes, PS-1 systems run fine when fed the proper diet - full-sine-wave AC.

Last edited by ReadingFan

 

Dave Warburton posted:

Some of those old engines like the Rock Island may have even been DC current only, not AC which runs all of MTH and Lionel locos today. Running an AC motor on DC will ruin it. 

Get a good new AC transformer designed to run MTH properly. A must and well worth the investment. 

 

 Dave part of your statement is incorrect. Maybe you accidentally swapped ac and dc from their correct place? 

. The first thing that happens in a new loco is a change from ac to dc on 99% of new age trains. The electronics require dc. The can motor(s)require dc as well.

  There can be an issue with postwar engines as the E units can be affected by the dc over long term exposure.  But the motors themselves are usually quite happy with dc. (take away half the ac wave and you have a form of dc more or less.)

Never run a dc train on ac. 

AC train on DC, OK...nothing harmed if it doesn't run. There are reasons it might not run, but we can skip that here right now, I couldn't say which or why exactly because I don't know exact chips inside & out, but I do know nothing should be harmed loosing the negative wave. It would end up as less power to be converted is all.

I also think this is an echo from above.. DC will cause a NON-COMMAND whistle or horn to blow non stop.  The cure is to turn the volume to off and live without the sounds.

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