Cab1L/Base1L Problems

The CAB-2 is backward compatible, so it will control your early TMCC engine.  There is also a CAB-1L available.  It is cheaper and less complicated than the CAB-2 and will also control your engine.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the CAB-1 if you find a good working one.  Just make sure the antenna hasn't broken off.  The CAB-1 will even control the newer Legacy engines, but not the Legacy functions.

@CAPPilot,

Thanks.  The control of the legacy engines may be all I need.  Can you name some important legacy functions that wouldn't be available?  The ones I know don't seem all that important.

Also, will CAB-1L also control the legacy engines?  I assume so.

Finally, does Lionel have something beyond CAB-2?  I've seen some stuff about bluetooth and wifi being available for control of Lionel engines.  I'm sorry, but I really don't know Lionel beyond postwar.

Good luck finding a Cab1 with command base, or a Cab1l with command base1L, or a Legacy #990.  All have been discontinued (except the Cab1l remote) which will work with the new Base3 which won't be out for a year.  You can run your engine conventional just fine until then.

Best to read past threads going way back if you are interested in command control and you think its in your future.  Plus ask lots of questions, lots of experts here.

Your GP9 will work just fine conventionally, with no command system, just like your postwar locos. Just put it on the track and run it.

@RoyBoy posted:

Your GP9 will work just fine conventionally, with no command system, just like your postwar locos. Just put it on the track and run it.

But it's a lot more fun in Command - you are running the engine, not the track, and variable track voltage won't be an issue.

@superwarp1 posted:

Good luck finding .....

Gary is correct.  Start your search now and see what is out there.  You may have to buy whichever one shows up.  They will all control your GP9 just fine.

@superwarp1,

@CAPPilot,

I see what you mean.  The supply and demand theory is in full force on these things.  I think I'll run it in low-tech mode until things aren't so crazy.

There was a Cab1/Command Base for sale at the train show in Mt. Hope yesterday.

They are available, just have to look for them.

I moved this to the proper forum since the topic specifically it talking about Lionel's operating system.

@texgeekboy posted:

...  The supply and demand theory is in full force on these things.  I think I'll run it in low-tech mode until things aren't so crazy.

FWIW, in the past 6 weeks or so, I found a complete Cab1 TMCC set for $180 at a meet (new in box) and cobbled together a TMCC base and Cab1 remote (bought separately online) for a little over $200.  They're out there - just keep looking.

If you buy a TMCC base, be sure it includes the power supply.  There are several "bargains" out there which don't include it.

@GregM,

@Mallard4468,

Thanks for the tips.  Unfortunately the Houston area doesn't have near the number of train shows/meets as there is in the Northeast.  I will keep on looking though.

@Mallard4468 posted:

FWIW, in the past 6 weeks or so, I found a complete Cab1 TMCC set for $180 at a meet (new in box) and cobbled together a TMCC base and Cab1 remote (bought separately online) for a little over $200.  They're out there - just keep looking.

If you buy a TMCC base, be sure it includes the power supply.  There are several "bargains" out there which don't include it.

Good advice. Few know that the wall wart for Cab1 set is a special one that grounds your TMCC system as well as powers it. You can't just buy a generic replacement with the same voltage output.

@Mallard4468 posted:

FWIW, in the past 6 weeks or so, I found a complete Cab1 TMCC set for $180 at a meet (new in box) and cobbled together a TMCC base and Cab1 remote (bought separately online) for a little over $200.  They're out there - just keep looking.

If you buy a TMCC base, be sure it includes the power supply.  There are several "bargains" out there which don't include it.

If you need a power supply for the TMCC base, per this thread, https://ogrforum.com/...e-unit-power-options on 4/5/18, NNJ Railfan found a replacement available on All Electronics for $15.50 .  It is still available at https://www.allelectronics.com...l-transformer/1.html

@texgeekboy  I run a late 90s TMCC engine through my MTH DCS App. Functions are limited but are OK. Everyone is correct about the 3 prong power supply - AC out. Make sure the base has it. There are work arounds, but why bother if you need to buy the base anyway?   I've been looking for a handheld, but hard to find and pricey when I did.

The newest Lionel locos (Legacy, LionChief + 2.0 and LionChief) can be controlled by the free app (on your smart phone or tablet if they are recent "Bluetooth equipped") or by the Universal Remote (Bluetooth and LionChief radio frequency control).  Mostly these are from the last 2-3 years, although LionChief has been around for the better part of a decade.  LionChief locos always come with their own dedicated remote anyhow.  The Universal Remote is still available and can be bought for $40-50 (new catalog has it at $55).  These are all effectively command control engines and remotes.  The new Base 3 will control all of these using either the cab-1L, the cab-2, the app and, I believe, the Universal Remote. 

Bottom line, if the box says "Bluetooth" you can use the inexpensive Universal Remote or the app, no immediate need for the cab-1L (still catalogued) or cab-2 (no longer in production).

If it doesn't say "Bluetooth" as in older Legacy and yet older TMCC locos, you're pretty much restricted to conventional until you get a command base (either TMCC, Legacy, base 1L, or Base 3) and the appropriate remote (in order: cab-1 for TMCC, cab-2 or cab-1L for Legacy,  or whatever the Base 3 winds up being compatible with (probably the cab-2, cab-1L, Universal and LionChief remotes).

A bit complex, but more complex to write up than actually do.

@Landsteiner,

Thanks!  I actually see the picture!

@ScoutingDad,

Yeah, I got to buy the base and the remote at some point.  I have a real problem with paying above market prices for obsolete, or near obsolete tech.  I'm holding off for now.

This store still had a new CAB-1L / BASE-1L for sale when I was in there last week.9

@shasta,

I've sent them an email, hope to hear from them on Monday.  Thank you very much.

She is closed on Mondays should hear from her on Tuesday though.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one operates the same as the 990 cab 2 base . In that the Base 1L puts the TMCC signal on the track but you will still need a Transformer or something like the 180 brick to power the rails.

@shasta posted:

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one operates the same as the 990 cab 2 base . In that the Base 1L puts the TMCC signal on the track but you will still need a Transformer or something like the 180 brick to power the rails.

Correct.

@shasta posted:

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one operates the same as the 990 cab 2 base . In that the Base 1L puts the TMCC signal on the track but you will still need a Transformer or something like the 180 brick to power the rails.

...and the usual warnings about having a faster circuit breaker if using an older transformer - this applies to anytime one is running modern locos regardless of control system.

@Mallard4468,

Thanks for the warning.  I actually just received a no delay 10 amp circuit breaker that was recommended in another thread and will install it on my reconditioned ZW later today.  I also have the diodes to put on.

@texgeekboy posted:

@Mallard4468,

Thanks for the warning.  I actually just received a no delay 10 amp circuit breaker that was recommended in another thread and will install it on my reconditioned ZW later today.  I also have the diodes to put on.

@texgeekboy, Hello if You are still in the market, I do have a Lionel CAB1, TMCC Set #6-12969 I may want to part with, if interested PM me, Thank You, Frank

Because every explanation I see is overly complex in my opinion, here's my understanding.

There are three types of Lionel locomotives that use constant track voltage

• TMCC
• Legacy
• Lionchief

There are 3, soon to be 4, control systems

• Cab-1 and Base-1 aka TMCC
• Cab-2 and Base-2 aka Legacy, and Cab-1L which can be thought of as Legacy lite
• Lionchief universal remote and/or bluetooth (phone app)
• Base 3 (out later this year, control is via Cab-2, Cab-1L, or phone app)

TMCC Locomotives can be controlled with TMCC, Legacy, and the Base 3.

Legacy locomotives can be controlled with TMCC, Legacy, Base 3, and in some cases Bluetooth.

Lionchief locomotives can be controlled with the universal remote, Bluetooth, and the Base3  (if they are Lionchief 2.0, they can also use TMCC and Legacy)

TMCC can control TMCC locomotives, and Legacy locomotives (minus some features)

Legacy can control TMCC locomotives and Legacy locomotives

The Lionchief universal remote and the phone app can control Lionchief locomotives, and some Legacy locomotives

Base 3 can control all Lionel locomotives that use constant track voltage (TMCC, Legacy, and Lionchief).  At this point, a Cab-3 handheld has not been announced, but the Cab-2, Cab-1L, and a Cab-3 phone app can control the Base-3.

I think that's all correct, but I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

@PSM,

You absolutely nailed it in terms of laying out the permutations.  So, going with CAB-1L and Base-3 should allow all options.  I'm not in any rush, heck I still have my sorry layout on the spare bedroom floor trying to get stuff sorted out.  I can't imagine having a 'permanent' layout until August or so.

@shasta,

Thank you so much for the info.  Anita emailed me today and had 1 new CAB-1L and BASE-1L package left in stock.  She sold it to me for the list price, knowing they're going for a lot more.

I did ask her if she had any left, and she said that was her last one, as well as the CAB-2 stuff.

I did call my local Lionel dealer, PapaBens, first to see if he had had any in stock, and he did not.

Thanks again.

You are very welcome glad it worked out

I renamed the thread to show the current issue.  I got the cab1l/base1l new units at the end of March, and I just now powered them up with my Lionel command diesel.  Prior to powering them up, I made sure the diesel ran fine, and it really did, much better than my old 671 and 681 steam locos.  As best as I could, I made sure there were no shorts on my track.  It is a small elongated oval with only fastrack and no 'special' sections, only straight track and curves.  However, I don't think that matters that much since my cab1l can't communicate with the base1l on any channel.  I've read numerous threads here that suggest using channel 9, which I've defined on the base1l.  When selecting that channel on the cab1l I get the dreaded three beeps.  Any button pressed on the cab1l doesn't light up the red light (or whatever) on the base1l as the document says it will.

The other threads that talk about this problem say to call Lionel and return it.  Is that the only option?  I'm pretty good at reading instructions (I've read them multiple times as well) and can't see that I'm doing anything wrong.

I believe this is a brand new unit from the hobby store I bought it from.  It doesn't look like it had been opened.

Well, if you're sure you're doing the channel selection correctly, that's your option.

textgeekbay

You "captured" a Cab1L and Base at list price!  That gear recently sold on eBay for $405. You should be worshipping at the feet of Anita, Patron Saint of Model Railroading.

Mike M.

One last thing before I call Lionel.  I read in other threads that home wifi could be an issue.  My base1L is literally less than 10 feet from my wifi router.  This is the most powerful router I've had in terms of transmission.  Also, next to it is a wireless Uverse TV transmitter that also works in the 2.4 Ghz band.  Turning off the wifi router/Uverse transmitter is something I'll try tomorrow when doing so won't create problems.  If that solves it, though, I'm not sure what a practical solution would be.

Top of the list is simply change the channel you're using on the BASE1L/CAB1L.

Both the remote and the base need to be set to the same channel number in order for the system to function properly. As GRJ suggests, I would try and change the channel number to a different channel on both and see if that helps. You could try a couple of different channels.

Thanks all.  Before I posted my question, I did try all the channels, multiple times.

I did disconnect the wifi as well as the Uverse router (also on 2.4 GHz, not a wifi signal though).  I also turned off wifi on my phone, so as far as I can tell, there was no 2.4 GHz signal near the base unit.  I went through all the channels, twice, still no go.  I also used a volt meter to test all the track to track connections to see if there was anything wonky, and there wasn't.  I am now going to try to contact Lionel support.

Thanks for the help.  Very disappointed in the product since I'm not the only one to experience this.

I did talk to someone at Lionel Support.  She wasn't an expert in that unit, so I had to explain things in simple terms.  She is sending me a USPS label to put on a box to return to the company for warranty work.  She said it is 5-6 weeks turnaround.  I'll revive the thread when I hopefully get it back.

The U post on the BASE1L connects directly to the outside rail of the track.  It really doesn't matter what route it takes to get there, it just has to have continuity to the outside rail.

@texgeekboy posted:

Very disappointed in the product since I'm not the only one to experience this.

In case it's not clear enough, why did you expect your purchase to be perfect?  Those "other threads" on this topic that you mentioned previously should have alerted you that there is a problem, but then again there seems to be a problem with EVERYTHING these days.

The answer may be to buy nothing.  Don't buy anything and you won't be disappointed.

If you want perfection you're in the wrong hobby.  Many, many, many people complain about it and get nowhere.

The customary response to perceived poor quality is "But I have a right to expect perfection", which may be true, but it will get you very little satisfaction today in this hobby of ours.

Mike