Bradley,

Can you explain what you're referring too when you say WIU in "Fixed" mode.  I understand the TIU fixed and variable channels, nit sure if that is what you're referring to.

I also don't understand why you would be utilizing the WIU if you're using the handheld remote and not the app via your phone or a tablet.

Trust me, I've had the same frustrations with MTH's wifi system.  It's gotten to the point where I'm ready to scrap my MTH engines, buy Lionel and use the handheld remote, since I can't find a MTH remote anywhere.  I have had nothing but problem after problem ever since the MTH app came out.  It is not reliable and I have tried every suggestion out there.

Darren

Dear Darren...Yes, Fixed "Channel"

As for handheld, rather than phone or tablet, I had hoped to be able to use either one or the other...

I had wondered if by chance there were separate "fuses" or breakers I might have had "blow."

It's strange, I thought, that I can get Variable Channel now but no TIU with Fixed Channels for PS-2 or 3

If you have a voltmeter you can check the power supply to each track that is connected to Fixed 1 or 2, if there is no power than I would check the wiring from the power supply to the track.  There are fuses in the TIU but it is rare that they go bad, but it can happen.

I would start with that first before tearing open the TIU.

When all else fails I take a single piece of track and connect it to my TIU and try and locate the engine that way.  Make sure the track is clean and that the engines wheels and pickups are also clean.  If that doesn't work then I would be worried about the engines electronics.  I don't know what kind of engine you are using but if has a battery make sure it's charged or that it has a BCR.

Do a factory reset of the TIU.  Then clear your remote.  Place engine on test track on F1 and try to add engine.  If fails try recover engine.  If fails, power TIU but also power Fix 2 and have that go to test track.  Make sure Red terminal to center rail.  Try and add.  If neither work can try var channels too, but chances are you have a TIU problem.  G

Also, open the TIU and see if you blew -- somehow -- the 20 amp fuse that protects the TIU. I may be way off but that was why my remote starting giving me the same disaster messages you are getting.

You know, Scott, I actually got bold enough to take that TIU apart and look inside to do what you suggest and I don't see the fuses you and a couple of the troubleshooting videos talk about...they are not there. I wonder if I should send it to Steve at Mr Muffin or some other place to have a professional do it...

The fuses inside the TIU are identified on a page in the DCS manual. These are green (or maybe yellow) 20 amp automotive type and pull out vertically. I'm at work or I would send a photo. If you have a blown one you can tell by looking at it. I completely freaked out when I got the message you are getting and was relieved that it was just a fuse replacement. I had done some wiring changes to the layout and did something wrong. And then somehow had bypassed my 5 amp breaker for the track. Basically double stupid. In your case with the WiFi . . ugh. I have a second back up TIU and 3 remotes. The latest was $285 NIB on the Bay. No regrets at all. I have no intention of letting go of my remote.

Try the link below.

2025 HR-V | "Powered By Imagination"

here's a posted pic from this forum. Ignore the red arrows that point out other parts.

@Pastor Brad posted:

You know, Scott, I actually got bold enough to take that TIU apart and look inside to do what you suggest and I don't see the fuses you and a couple of the troubleshooting videos talk about...they are not there. I wonder if I should send it to Steve at Mr Muffin or some other place to have a professional do it...

I have 2 of the older TIU and neither of them have fuses.

@Jim Teeple posted:

I have 2 of the older TIU and neither of them have fuses.

Those would be the first ever released models known as the REV. G as noted by the absence of a "REV" sticker on the bottom.

Here's a quick run through TIU history... (BORROWED FROM DAVE HIKEL - HERE)

Rev. G - This was the original, released in April, 2002.  Unlike all later TIU's, the Rev G's had the black terminals on all four channels tied together.  They are also the only TIU revision without internal blade fuses and were vulnerable to shorting out with older transformers with slow acting breakers.  The G's can be identified on the outside by the lack of a revision sticker on the underside.  The G's also have a "ProtoSound 2" logo painted on the top of the case.

Rev. H1/H1A/H1B/H2/H2A - The "H" revisions added the blade fuses for auxiliary circuit protection and isolated the black terminals on each channel.  The G and H revisions all used 5 volts chip sets.  The various alpha numeric iterations within the "H" revisions represented minor hardware changes on the circuit board.  All "H" revisions came with an identifying sticker centered on the underside of the case.  The H1's were painted with the "ProtoSound 2" logo, but from the H1A on MTH switches to the DCS oval logo on the top of the case.

Rev. I/I1/I1A/I3/I3A/I3B - The "I" revisions moved from a 5 volt to a 3 volt chip set.  The various alpha numeric iterations within the "I" revisions represented minor hardware changes on the circuit board.  All "I" revisions came with an identifying sticker centered on the underside of the case.  MTH used a sans serif font on the revision stickers, which has often lead to confusion.  Many people mistake the "I" for a "1."

Rev. L - So far there has only been a single variation of the Rev. L.  The L uses a 3volt FPGA chip set with improved signal recognition, which effectively improves track signal quality.  The "L" also added a USB-B port, which can be used in lieu of the RS-232 port to connect the TIU to a PC for updating firmware and transferring files.  You can identify the Rev. L by the sticker and the USB-B port.

Hey, guys...at least you have confirmed I'm not (yet) going bonkers...I have NO fuses...evidently the first model made.

In your opinion, which is most valuable to me, shall I try to buy the new WTIU?  OR...since I love my handheld, one of you seems to be saying I can still find the TIU with handheld on E-Bay?

I'm gathering there is no "fix for this one of mine...

Scott J, there was no link to click...would you be so kind...many thanks to all of you.

The Lord be with you all, Bradley+

I put auto blade type 10 amp fuses on all my TIU input channels, as recommended by Ray's Electric trains.

https://www.rayman4449.com/DCS...ing_a_quickblow_fuse

I have 4 TIUs.

When one blows, it's easy to change out.

Pastor Brad,

Let's confirm a couple of things....

when you first power the TIU by Fixed Input #1 or by the Aux Power Input, how many times does the RED LED blink?  (LED can be seen through the small round hole in the top - lower right corner below the "D" in Protosound.)  Power the TIU off and on multiple times and see if you get the same LED blink count each time or a different count?

With your power source ON and going to Input #1 on the TIU, is there power on the track connected to Ouput #1?  Can you confirm with a voltmeter or use a lighted caboose or passenger car? 

If there is power to the track, do the PS2 or PS3 engines remain silent or do they start--up (sounds and lights) shortly after power is applied?

I believe that derailments during the time i was running the REV G    TIU  without fuses  led to the demise of both TIU's and now i am running the WTIU and added the

"In your opinion, which is most valuable to me, shall I try to buy the new WTIU?  OR...since I love my handheld, one of you seems to be saying I can still find the TIU with handheld on E-Bay? I'm gathering there is no "fix for this one of mine..."

Before you get too deep into buying something, listen to this. After not running trains since 2012, I put up trains this year (in another thread about layout design) and after 2 weeks of board assembly, switch wiring etc, I have been testing out my older TUI (rev 4.2 I think) with a cheap PS2 diesel that came in a set. After verifying that everything worked, I thought it time to see how other PS2 engines negotiated the design.

I took out a few engines to try them, but I charged them first with the wall wart charger. All engines were already in the hand held remote from years ago. All of the following engines were tested separately. The first gave your infamous No DCS Engine Found msg that you saw. So did the second, even though both were in the remote. Naturally, I thought battery, since the earlier diesel was found. I tried a 3rd...and a 4th. Same msg. Each time track was powered, I heard the "click" that happens from every engine when first track power comes on

I set up 3 pieces of track all alone, to be the loading track. NOT found appeared each time. I hooked up the brick/controller from the original train set - ALL engines responded and worked well.

NO "read" attempts worked for me. I was ready to start looking at TIU problems, since my stuff is so old. Either that - OR toss it all in the trash can.

I then put the first engine back on the track, and even though it was in the remote, I decided to hit "add MTH engine." That engine added, to a new address...and worked great. I think I had to do it with another engine, but I remember that when I put a couple of other engines back on the track - engines that were 'not found' - they pulled up correctly on the remote.

NOTHING was done, other than to add an engine as if it had never been added. I don't remember if I deleted the first version (I don't think I did, I hate deleting one after it has been found) but there is only 1 of each engine in the remote.

Not sure if this works for you, but perhaps it will help someone else, who is put in the situation that I was. And, that 4.2 version, does everything I want to do, I have no PS3 items, and probably will never have any. I have no interest in grabbing cables, a computer, and playing Mr. Wizard trying to upgrade something that works for me.

Greg      (also, here, with this great bunch of guys willing to help, never say, "Guys, I'm a little overwhelmed and still more embarrassed to say, 'I don't know what to do.'" We all might not know what to do at one time or another, no embarrassment needed! Just ask.)

when i ordered the WTIU I initially was hesitant about not being able to use my handheld remote till the adapter cable was available to allow me to run teathered.

I  quickly adapted to the app on the iPhone and IPad and surprisingly i like it better than the remote. I will get the adapter cable but probably not use it.

I am not of the younger generation that does everything on the phone, I am 85 but it works for me.

My experience is similar to cngw...just keep at it and eventually the engine will add, kind of like computers/Windows...just keep clicking (a professor gave me that advice way back in the 1990s when the internet was new).

DCS has had more than its share of troubles, and not so long ago one man by the name of Barry Broskowitz wrote a book (DCS Companion) on how to get DCS to work and troubleshooting. He would step up and help users on this forum for many years until he passed away, and I have to wonder if DCS would've gone on without his help. There have been others who've stepped up and helped as well, no slight to them, yet because Barry used his real name and helped me many times - and he wrote the book - his name is easier to remember. I am mentioning this because many of us may have given up on getting DCS to work in its first decade or so of use...I came close to throwing it away on more than a few occasions. I have to believe that we hung in there for the fact that, prior to Lionel getting into the scale engine market, MTH was the main game in town for the vast variety of steam and diesel they released - and we simply wanted to run them in command mode. Lionel is now the big guy on campus, but evidently DCS is hanging in there and MTH has had a surprising resurrection given the doom and gloom predicted just a few years ago.

Bradley, if I understood you correctly, it sounds like you can still run post war engines using the variable channels. So maybe your fixed channels no longer work.

Provided the variable channels work, change one of the fixed channels to be fixed, run wires to the track from that channel, and see if the engines are recognized.

If it works it's a lot better than buying a new or used DCS system and you still get to use your remote.

Steps on your remote to change a variable Channel to fixed:

1. Menu
2. System
3. DCS Setup
4. Select the appropriate Variable Channel
5. Select FXD

I haven't done this in years, and hopefully someone who has will kindly correct or modify what I have as needed.

I hope that works for you,

Steve

@Pastor Brad posted:

Hey, guys...at least you have confirmed I'm not (yet) going bonkers...I have NO fuses...evidently the first model made.

In your opinion, which is most valuable to me, shall I try to buy the new WTIU?  OR...since I love my handheld, one of you seems to be saying I can still find the TIU with handheld on E-Bay?

I'm gathering there is no "fix for this one of mine...

Scott J, there was no link to click...would you be so kind...many thanks to all of you.

The Lord be with you all, Bradley+

That's weird about the link. I see it and it works on my PC. However, a "change the fuses" video is no help if you have no fuses! The good news is you have gotten great feedback from guys that know a lot more than I do about DCS. That's a great thing about the forum. When one of us has a problem, everyone has an opportunity to learn. And as Paul mentioned above, DCS would not be nearly as successful without Barry and his DCS book which every DCS user should own. I was off the forum for a while and saw that he had passed when I rejoined a year ago. Very sad about that. His contributions to the hobby and the forum are immeasurable.

@Pastor Brad, I hope the next couple weeks go as smoothly as they possibly can given your situation. We get it, life happens and things come up. The forum will always be here and ready to help you when you can get back to the trains.

God Bless and Merry Christmas!!

I may have missed it, but did you try tethering your remote to your TIU with a curly phone cord? If it works then, your transceiver board came loose in your TIU or remote. Open the TIU first and press down on the small circuit board with the short black wire (the antenna) sticking up on it. When you put the cover back on, cut a small length of soft foam from a strip like you get to seal the window, when you buy an air conditioner. Put it on top of the transceiver board and put the cover back on. The foam will keep it from coming loose again. If still having issues, open up the remote and do the same thing. The remote is a different shaped transceiver board plugged onto the main board. Press it down and add a small piece of foam to help the cover hold it in place. You may have dropped the remote at one time which usually knocks the small board loose. Also try deleting the engines and re-add them then. New remote batteries too.

Let me add something here: Today, I hooked up the track/transformers/TIU the way I wanted it for the final run. Prior to this, I had run some PS2 engines, without problems. To do this hook up, I merely unhooked the temp wires, moved everything to a cart with wheels, and plugged it all in.

The first engine I put on the outer loop, was not recognized. NO DCS engines found. Yet it ran a couple of days ago. Same thing happened with the next two engines. I disconnected the inner loop, READ track. Same result with engines. Disconn outer loop, tried and got same results. I thought, "There goes the Christmas garden for this year. Conventional only.

Set up 2 straight tracks alone, with lockon....same results. No engine found, no engine to add. I changed the lock on. "Read" gave no joy. The engines showed in the remote. But the remote said either engine not on track....or no DCS eng found

A couple of times I did "read", a couple S/U and add MTH. Between tests, I pulled a battery from remote, powered down TIU multiple times. Then...................nothing really diffferent.......but.........

One time, I hit ADD engine again....it found the one on the test track. Then a second. So...if it can add them on a test track, it should do it on the real track. And it added 3 more engines on the outer loop once I reconnected the leads to the track.

However, I noted that it added the engines to new addresses! The same engines still showed, at the old address, and could not be "found/read" for some reason. So, I deleted the old ones and ran stuff. The address # means little to me: it could be 12 North Main for all I care. (I know, I can change all that.) What I care about is finding, and running....and all of that was accomplished. (I also did same thing with the second remote.)

It appears that there is a little "black magic" that is involved in this DCS stuff!! Most of you having similar results/problems? Brad, did you solve yours, I saw you have some other stuff to attend to???

Greg

Hey Greg...I tried all those different ideas/suggestions and had no such luck.

I'm in the middle of funeral week now but am thinking Mr Muffins repair shop is next. If THAT leads to no solution, I am going to try to buy another "old" DCS system...I really had no problems with it for over a decade...I like the handheld remote better than my phone or "device" as a controller.

As I think more about it, it's almost beyond question my problems with DCS came at the time I added WIU. As I have said, I am sure it was/is operator error on my part, but IF I find someone willing to sell me a DCS, I'm not sure I'll even bother chancing it with a working WIU...

Now, watch what happens...I am going to end up with no choice OTHER THAN a WTIU!!!

Hey, I've been with people today who have far greater challenges in life than mine!

The Lord bless and keep you all...This Forum has been quite encouraging. It's ALMOST like having friends in the train room again.

Bradley+

Hey, guys...So that you who were so encouraging to me the last couple of weeks may know the outcome, here is the word from Mr Muffins repairman.

They got my TIU and WIU Tuesday and had this answer to me today...I am very appreciative for them and for you. Many, many thanks.

The Lord be with you and your dear ones, Bradley Ketcham+

Bradley,
    I've confirmed your WIU, TIU, and remote have all been upgraded to the latest firmware. Your WIU is able to talk to the TIU successfully, though the remote does not; it repeatedly gave an "out of RF range" error.
    On the TIU:
    Fixed 1 is providing power, but no DCS signal
    Fixed 2 shorts the power supply
    Variable 2, when operating in Fixed mode, works successfully
    Variable 1, when operating in Fixed mode, is intermittent. It could find and start up a test engine, but then would only send roughly one out of every four or five commands to the engine.
    The TIU, itself, is an older model from 2003, and doesn't have fuses. Any repair to it is likely going to require replacing the entire board, and I do not know if this particular board is even still available.
    If you only have a single track, and can run it using the WIU and Variable 2, it will operate just fine. You would still need a second power supply, though, to power the TIU via either Fixed 1 or the AUX Power port.
    If you want to run more than a single track, or do not have an external power source, I would recommend replacing this TIU.

Your tiu channels are fixable most likely.  Transmit chips, Diode replacement.  Remote not talking may be problematic, but may be loose receiver board.   Replacing board is not what is done. But chances are it is repairable.  G