Did Southern Railways EVER use this passenger car design??

Fantasy Island.  Southern used unpainted stainless steel cars from both Budd and Pullman Standard.

Rusty

I believe Southerns lightweight cars were all stainless steel unpainted with fluting below and above the window belt except for the letterboard with the RR name. Letterring was black in a block style, no serifs. The PRR owned cars built with the Southerns cars for the Crescent. Their appearance matched the Southern cars. PRR also had couches for the Southerner which matched the southern equipment.

The Williams E-7s are done in a delivery scheme so you could run them in a train with Heavyweights which would be pullman green . MTH made a set of cars like this , perhaps Lionel did also.

Thanks guys. I wonder why MTH made these if they were never ever used.  I'll look for the aluminum colored ones!

MTH, Lionel and Williams have all been known to "get creative" sometimes.

Rusty

It would be appropriate to run your E7s [and E6s]with either the Lightweight unpainted stainless cars or the Heavyweights during the period immediately after WWII when the E7s were first delivered. The green and two tone green Heavyweights decorated during the 1920s for the Crescent Limited and other Southern "name trains" mostly ended in the early 1930s due to the Depression when many cars and engines were parked on "dead tracks" for lack of business.    

Due to the major postwar production backup, Southern's huge orders for new stainless passenger cars from Pullman Standard, Budd, American Machine & Foundry and others were only delivered beginning 1949. The earliest stainless cars called the "silver cars" were delivered along with the E6s in 1941 for:

The Southerner[March '41], The Tennessean[May '41] and The Crescent[Dec '41]. Subsequent to Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 deliveries of cars and engines were halted with rare exceptions.

Southern painted the roofs of some of its stainless cars flat black but aside from lettering I have never seen evidence of green, gold and white decorated cars. Certain photo advertisements along with PR photos of "The Tennessean" appear to show a solid green smoothside light weight car in a consist but nothing concrete.

There are none shown in the Southern Railway Color guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment. 

But there were lightweight streamline coaches (660-663), combine "Man of War" and two domes (1602 & 1613) that were smooth-side painted a darker green.  These came from merger with Central of Georgia.  MTH has made these with 660, 662, 663, and 1602 fairly somewhat prototypical. 

MTH has also made two sets of the fluted stainless cars.

Good one.  I was trying to dream up an answer to that question, but all I could come up with were remarks about pink engines and giraffe cars.  If you want accurate passenger cars, painting that one silver is not going to cut it.  

On the other hand, most hobbyists in this category are quite happy with models that are not faithful reproductions of some prototype.

Here's a nice set of aluminum Southern passenger cars....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weaver...;hash=item1e795c0b96

I believe all the stainless cars delivered to the SRR in 1941 were coaches (plus diner), but I'm not sure.  Hopefully someone can confirm or correct that.  Some MTH/Lionel/etc. sets have sleepers.

Gilly, those cars are really nice but look like they are 15" long.  That may be a bit short for the scale Williams E7s.

Ron

That's a great set of reasons! Thanks.

Gilly - thanks, but my problem is that the Williams E7 is BIG (4" high by 18" long per unit) and those cars look a little too small.  I'm hoping to find 18" cars that are as big as I can get so they're not dwarfed by the AA total length of 36"!

Good eyes. I was thinking they were 18" cars, they are 16". There were two big Weaver sets (80' Scale). They are Pn#s 1207-L and 1225-L. No leads on them, but at least they've been made.

Gilly

These car are prototypical to some degree and would be a better choice to used with the E7. I have all of these cars in my collection and used them with my Southern  Williams E7, Lionel E6 and Weaver E8's

MTH
20-69194
2-Car 70' ABS Baggage/Coach Passenger Set (Ribbed)

20-66194
2-Car 70' ABS Slpr/Diner Passenger Set (Ribbed)

20-65194
5-Car 70' ABS Passenger Set (Ribbed)

20-69107
2-Car 70' ABS Baggage/Coach Passenger Set (Ribbed)

20-66107
2-Car 70' ABS Slpr/Diner Passenger Set (Ribbed)

20-65107
5-Car 70' ABS Passenger Set (Ribbed)

Sean, 

Do they look too small next to the Weaver E7?  I mean, it's 4" tall (as you know)

PRRronbh

Ron

The cars you reference are the two I posted photos of and we discussed on C. Sams "Southern photo" thread recently. The photos were from the Equipment Color Guide and show the Domes[1602,1613] in Pullman Green paint scheme. 

They are Wabash Railway cars that came to  the Central of Georgia and then Southern via the 1982 merger but were never decorated in the Virginia Green or Sylvan Green shades.

Southern's 14th Street Tunnel in Washington on the Eastern Lines to NYC would not accommodate Dome Car height and for that reason they never used them until the merger and then only for operation south of Atlanta.  The same applied for the Rat Hole Tunnels on the CNO&TP Central Lines until "daylighted".

CAPPILOT[RON]

The 1941 car shipments did not include stainless sleepers and wartime postponed their shipment. Thus, Heavy weight sleepers were used[probably until postwar]. In the case of "The Tennessean" Heavyweight sleepers were decorated in Southern's imitation aluminum engine paint shade to better match the consist[and satisfy the Advertising Dept].

I have seen many a southern stainless matched and unmatched passenger car being pulled by a GG1 down and up the northeast corridor  There were many times cars from four or five roads were in a consist. You can correctly add any other car behind a GG1 except for the one you asked about, sorry. not a bad car but it is as they say" never happened" but I do not think your three rail track will mind.

I just purchased the MTH 20-65194 Southern Passenger Car Set - seemed like the only proper thing to do - MAN, those things aren't cheap!

I run a set of MTH Premier C&O passenger cars with my WbB E7s. Size wise, they're fine.

Gilly

Dewey, 

I believe the dome cars where used on the Asheville Special up untill that train was retired. I don't know if one or both domes where ever in the consist together.

Lyle, 

Those car are scale for 70' cars and the height will not be an issuse when you run them with the E7's

Here's a video of fellow forum member Roger Whitsett with his MTH E8's and MTH Southern passenger cars 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsfsMwZKs1I

SEAN - thanks a BUNCH!

After the Asheville Special was terminated the dome was used on the Southern Crescent. I believe the dome cars 1602 & 1613 were pulled off the train at Atlanta northbound.  The domes on the Southern Crescent ran from New Orleans to Atlanta northbound and Atlanta to New Orleans southbound.

Neal Jeter

Southern's 14th Street Tunnel in Washington on the Eastern Lines to NYC would not accommodate Dome Car height and for that reason they never used them until the merger and then only for operation south of Atlanta.  The same applied for the Rat Hole Tunnels on the CNO&TP Central Lines until "daylighted".

I believe the track-age you are referring to was owned by the PRR, it went into Richmond yards where transfers were made. I take that track home every day on the VRE. the catanery post and some wiring still are up there and on some of the bridges it has the PRR warning signs of high voltage line on all the bridges,this is why the PRR did not have dome cars, the catanery was to close to the top of the domes in many places like the tunnels.  The PRR shows the track it owns  in many of the books published by the railroad. I also have seen many photos of southern engines using the tracks into DC. the PRR worked with many southern roads ACL SRR, FEC and many more.

John

Sob, sob. I have similar concerns as Lyle had; I have the 30-2340-1 SO E3 ABA with lots of white and I really like its looks. But was it prototypical (Tennessean?). I can imagine how grungy these colors would have looked in a short time, BUT, on a hobby layout, Gangbusters! I do have the little SO Crescent cars from the earlier steam set; they don't look too bad, just small. To go prototypical or not, that is the question. I guess a nice problem to have in these economic times.

Wally

P.S. Remember the fallen heroes today and always

As mentioned earlier the Williams E7 is in the as delivered two white stripes scheme.  I like the looks of this scheme better than the single white stripe, but the two white stripes did not last long.  Question for you SRR experts; when did they go from two white stripes to one?

Thanks

Ron

Ron

I am not a Southern Railway expert but I do have an interest in its history as well as a few books covering the railroad. As near as I can tell , units delivered as built in the two stripe scheme included the early EMD E units through the E-7's in the post war 40's period, the first F-3s in the post war 40s and the War time DL-109s. As near as I can tell , it appears the railroad was repainting these into the single stripe scheme in the period 1949-1950. This seems to be what photos suggest. I am thinking that the white roofs were a real appearance and maintenance issue for Southern which led to the change in color scheme.

I have several of the Williams E-7 sets and it seems that Williams did  a few of these in " As delivered" colors. The Southern and the Union Pacific engines are this way . The Boston and Maine is a late 40's colors also although not the colors they were delivered in. Its a nice touch by Williams for those interested in the early postwar steam to diesel transition era. 

Southern's Passenger E-6,E-7,F-3'S and Alco DL109 all had the dual band "Pelican" paint scheme from the time they where delivered up until they where repainted in 1949 to the Single band scheme.

Four E8 A-Units North End Lake Ponchatrain Trestle

A-A-A-A with10 car consist, mostly silver black tops w/black or pullman green dome car 1613 or 522

SR President Graham Claytor liked to use this combination of all A's ...

Streamliners were Stainless Steel wBlack tops, note dark Pullman Green vista Dome either 1613 or 522