Die cast Hoppers hard to pull?

Jim

You haven't offered any specifics on your hoppers, locomotives or layout.  Specific info always helps, it makes specific answers possible.  However, I can offer some general info.

I have experience operating modern era K-Line and MTH diecast hoppers.  Most are models of transition era 70 ton 4 bay hoppers.  Atlas and Lionel have also made diecast hoppers.  I have used mostly MTH locomotives to pull them.  I have never experienced a mechanical problem with a modern locomotive coupler when pulling diecast hoppers or any other heavy train. 

When operating or dispatching for an operating session at a large layout I try to match locomotives to the trains they are asked to pull. I have even calculated scale tons for locomotive ratings and train weight.  Most modern era plastic models of hoppers, reefers, boxcars. etc weigh about one pound or just over 50 scale tons.  Most diecast hopper models weigh about 2-3 times as much.  So if you normally pull a 18 car train of plastic models a six car train of diecast hoppers will make the locomotive do about the same amount of work.  That is OK, most of our scale locomotives never get a chance to work hard.  If you run a 10 car or longer train of diecast hoppers you may hear some labored chuff or diesel rev sounds you haven't heard before.

Specific info on the cars and locos that you have and your layout would be helpful.  If you are running scale locos, and O-72+ curves without serious grades you should be fine.  Grades over 1-2% will makes things interesting, likely in a fun way.  F units or FAs in sets with both As powered should do just fine as will two or more Geeps, SDs, RSs, Trainmasters, Dash 9s, ESs, etc in a "lashup".  So will most diecast scale steam locomotives.  K-Line or Lionel steam locomotives from K-Line tooling with smaller motors in the front of the boiler are not good choices for heavy tonnage work.   As with any real or model locomotive, the harder you work it the more attention you should pay to maintenance.  Do the recommended lubrication and your locos will be fine.  Expect more traction tire wear.  

If you have graduated trestle sets and O-31 curves you are in different territory. 

48' x 16' flat layout with turnouts.  Motive power is Weaver GP 38-2 and 2 800 series (Little Joes).  I have an MTH Mohawk but that will only pull my billboard reefers or passenger cars.

I put any diecast stuff at the front of the consist, but other than steep grades, you'll find that the rolling resistance is probably more significant than the weight of the cars when determining the maximum number of cars to pull.

I have a number of these. I pulled, maybe a dozen, on my former carpet layout, without any problems. My motive power was MTH Premier steam; curves O-72. My new layout will have 3% grades. I'm looking forward to taxing my motive power with these cars. However, I am operating with DCS and Legacy and all my locomotives have speed control.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I put any diecast stuff at the front of the consist, but other than steep grades, you'll find that the rolling resistance is probably more significant than the weight of the cars when determining the maximum number of cars to pull.

Ditto. I tried a fifty car train once with my Kline diecast hoppers in the middle of the train.  MTH challenger had no issues pulling the train, going through my large 0-72 horse shoe curves would pull the lighter cars in the front over.  So now I keep all of my diecast rolling stock up front, leave the lighter cars in the back.  with the flats right behind the caboose.

MONON_JIM posted:

48' x 16' flat layout with turnouts.  Motive power is Weaver GP 38-2 and 2 800 series (Little Joes).  I have an MTH Mohawk but that will only pull my billboard reefers or passenger cars.

 

OK, so you are accurately modeling Indiana and the South Shore. Do you have O-72 and numbered switches?  O-72+ curves?

The Weaver GP38 with twin vertical motors should be OK.  I can't comment on how the mechanisms on the Weaver brass Joes will hold up in heavy haul service.  The MTH Joes have a well engineered mechanism and will really pull.  The MTH Mohawk is actually your most capable heavy haul locomotive.  It should be able to routinely handle 15 or so diecast hoppers on the level without trouble.

John is correct about rolling resistance.  Without grades and with broad curves rolling resistance is the big issue.  MTH trucks tend to have less friction than K-Line trucks.

I have pulled an unpowered Atlas GP35 + 8 K-Line diecast hoppers + 2 diecast Lionel hoppers + I plastic gondola + 1 plastic caboose all with a single Atlas GP35 with no problems. 

I have recently purchased another powered Atlas GP35 and Legacy (so that I can run the two TMCC engines together).  Still plan on purchasing another 3-pack of diecast K-Line Reading hoppers and another Lionel diecast PP&L hopper.  This will make my final train two powered GP35's + 1 unpowered GP35 + 14 diecast hoppers + 1 plastic gondola + 1 plastic caboose!

Jim

Ted, correct South Shore and Monon.  I have gargraves 138 curves only on the layout along with only 100M Ross turnouts.  I had the room so I figured I would use as big a curve that would fit. You can reach the inside of the four loops and come back out.  The die cast are a combination of Atlas, Lionel and K-line.

More power.   First (4) hoppers are Atlas die cast.  Mouse-over image, click on triangle to access video.

My experience that running with Atlas-O die-cast hoppers, you need to be prototypical in your use of motive power.  In other words, if you want to pull the hoppers up a slight grade, these monsters are going to require double-heading or a large articulated steam engine.  

The only bad effect you will get is that your rubber band tires will wear out more quickly.

In my prior home I had a non level 11' X 23' Layout. I pulled 58 cars Mixed Postwar, Die Cast and modern MTH with a MTH Railking Big Boy. It had no issues once I fixed all the weak couplers on old stock and moved the light cars to the back.

The Train had a gap of about 3 feet on the layout. Full loop with a O-72 S curve near one end (had to avoid the Furnace). Also had about 3" of rise up one long side and down the other.

Chessie posted:

My experience that running with Atlas-O die-cast hoppers, you need to be prototypical in your use of motive power.  In other words, if you want to pull the hoppers up a slight grade, these monsters are going to require double-heading or a large articulated steam engine.  

 

The only bad effect you will get is that your rubber band tires will wear out more quickly.

I sure agree     they are hard to pull on a layout with grades, and will also push going down grade.   Bring out the  big power.