Die cast or plastic?

Look for Kline , Have a couple of B& O coal hoopers that are heavy and  all cast metal

For locomotives, I like the way Lionel did them in the early 1950's on diesels such as the 2023 and steamers. I like diesels with die cast metal frames and truck assemblies. Plastic bodies are fine.
For steam engines, I like die cast metal.

For rolling stock, I have always liked the way AMT cars were made, with a die cast metal frame and fairly heavy moulded plastic bodies. Those cars are heavier than Lionel boxcars. I think all metal cast boxcar would be too heavy for my tastes.

Die cast for engines. Aluminum for passenger cars.

Sounds like something one would hear checking out at the grocery store:

"Die-cast or plastic, sir?"

That could be one heavy trunk-full of groceries.

I prefer plastic for freight rolling stock, as they are much easier to up-grade to body mounted Kadee couplers, and allow for much longer trains without the extra, i.e. useless, additional weight of those fully die cast freight cars. Beside, I add weight to my plastic freight cars anyway.

I want locomotives to weigh alot but don't really car what they are made of if they look good.  Diecast steamers (I can't think of one I have that isn't) and ABS diesels (I think I have one diecast) seem the norm and do well for me . . . 

I agree whole-heartedly with Lee.  I do like a heavier car or loco, just because it feels good to me.  Good looks on any passenger or freight cars are a must, heavier material to me is good.  I also like tinplate because of the fit and finish and heft.

Locomotives, fine.  not rolling stock.  I like long trains, and heavy cars would limit that, which is why I have weaver in the scale "department".

A lot of die-cast rolling stock is kind of mushy on detail. Cast-in details are not as sharp as they are on a plastic car. Gondolas and flatcars can be quite good; die-cast boxcars and reefers tend to look downscale. Compare the Rail King and K-Line die-cast cars with similar cars made of plastic. Lionel has some die-cast metal flatcars that have nice detail, and Atlas composite hoppers are pretty good, but apart from that I can do without. 

For what it's worth, the Weaver freight cars are generally WAY too light.

Make them out of clay as long as they work well, look good.

With so many cases of 'die cast rot' I think I like my brass locos the best. Glad I have a PRR T1 and S1 and SP Cab Forward in brass.....no matter what happens to die cast in the future I'll have a few great locos!!

I prefer plastic for freight rolling stock, as they are much easier to up-grade to body mounted Kadee couplers, and allow for much longer trains without the extra, i.e. useless, additional weight of those fully die cast freight cars. Beside, I add weight to my plastic freight cars anyway.

I agree, with the exception being flat cars.  Lionel's diecast PS-4 flats are very nicely detailed, can easily be upgraded to Kadees (and converted to 2 rail), and weigh enough that no extra weight is needed.  Sometimes its tough to hide weight in a flat car! 

Dave:  What is "die cast rot"?  I have not heard this term before.

 What is "die cast rot"?

More commonly known as "zinc pest" or "zinc rot." Some zinc die castings deteriorate over time - they swell, develop cracks, and can eventually fall apart. The cause is generally attributed to impurities in the zinc alloy, and/or not having the metal hot enough when it is poured. 

Prewar Dorfan die-cast locomotives are notorious for developing zinc pest. Modern manufacturers have had occasional problems with zinc castings crumbling after several years. For some reason truck sideframes have been a special focus for problems. MTH and K-Line have had problems with passenger trucks, and the trucks on  any older 3rd Rail rolling stock (the brass hoppers, 6-dome tank cars, etc.) are all but guaranteed to fall apart. 

It depends on the purpose of the display. Theodore breaks teeth on die cast cars.

<<<A lot of die-cast rolling stock is kind of mushy on detail. Cast-in details are not as sharp as they are on a plastic car.>>>>

Not sure I agree.  This Railking diecast caboose looks pretty good.. 

Joe  

Well, not for Union Pacific it doesn't.

Southwest covered it pretty well.......I had to deal with it on every K-Line HW passenger car I bought.....not fun.

Die cast detail soft??? Todays mold technology allows plastic or metal to be used as media in some molds. So detail will be exactly the same. Some older DC molds may be soft on detail.

These die cast hoppers by Lionel are about as detailed as it gets....if you ignore the plastic coal load.

Bruce

It is a personal preference and tradition kind of thing.  I prefer metal or wood to plastic - my hobby is not plastic models.  If you are a Lionel traditionalist, steamers have to be die cast (electrics, too) and Diesels must be plastic.

It is a hobby - whatever makes you happy is the way to go.

On that caboose - Rail King tried to copy the Lionel 717, but they missed by a mile.   A Mile!  Opinion.

A friend of mine bought two sets of the K-Line die cast N&W hoppers to pull behind his Lionmaster  "A".  They were too heavy to pull all eight cars plus a caboose.  Die cast cars are all right but I prefer plastic with metal frames.

Andrew,I LOVE die cast hopper cars and a few other die cast cars I have.The only down side is the weight causes some un coupling problems.Nick

Hello guys and gals..........

I had one MTH Railking 2-8-8-2 and its die cast boiler has blisters on the casting at first I thought it was paint bubbles and tried to pop it with a needle and it was hard so it was the metal.  This engine was made in 2005 I think (30-1156-1) I buy NOS older than 2000 and my latest purchase was the Lionel F-3 which has the die cast frame, trucks and side frames all good. This F-3 was made in 1993 so this makes it 21 years old. Castings are still good today. I not have to worry about metal casting rot on older trains.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678,2003,200

Tiffany

"Zinc pest" seems to be very common in pre-war O scale Flyer, by Gilbert.  It dissuaded me from trying to collect it.  It exists, but I have found it to be much

less common, in drivers on Marx engines, that tend to crack from the axle out.

I saw it and heard about it as soon as I got back into the O gauge train hobby.

(I do not know about later Flyer two rail..S gauge....have not heard about it in

those engines)

I like heavy locomotives to enhance the pulling power.  For rolling stock, I try to weight them to NMRA standards of 5oz + 1oz for each inch of length.  Boxcars usually end up about a pound, and they normally roll very well and are pretty stable.  Most diecast rolling stock is too heavy to run in a long consist unless you put it at the front.

When I restored my (prewar) Lionel 252 locomotive, the first thing I had to do was replace the drive wheels.  All four had fallen victim to Zinc Rot, and were lying in small pieces at the bottom of a box.

So it's not just prewar Flyer.

I did a video of my ES44AC's Die cast vs plastic both lionel and they did not sound the same. I was under the assumption that the sound boards and speakers were the same, anyone have any of the plastic body ES44AC that sound the same as the Die cast. I understand that the crew talk is generic, i am only concerned with the horn sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWj8EAowutE

Yep.  I had an early MTH Rail King PRR Stream Line K4 that literally fell apart in the original box.   It had never even been on the track.  Further, it was out of warranty but the Nice Folks at MTH took care of me and sent me a replacement shell for the engine.   Funny thing, the tender was perfectly intact.

Chief Bob (Retired)   

Diecast steamers and plastic diesels. I have a bunch of K-Line's diecast coal hoppers, when I build a consist of 20 or more I will use 3 of the MTH UP Heritage diesels for power. 2 on the lead and 1 midtrain.

    Bill T

Harry Henning had a customer's RailKing K4 streamliner, the tender was swaybacked, looked very odd!  MTH did replace the shell.

Guns,

   Man do I agree, I want the heavy Die Cast Engines, the GG1's are some of my favorites,

be they Lionel, MTH or Williams, the big heavy girls really run great and pull as many cars as you desire.

PCRR/Dave

Plastic diesel shells. Die cast steam locomotives, plastic rolling stock. Especially with the Weaver PS-1's you can build a nice long train. I'm down to one die cast hopper car.

Die Cast cars are nice and beefy to hold and admire but for everyday rolling stock I prefer plastic.

I have about 35-40 Die cast cars mostly Gondola's and some flatcars. The K-line Die Cast Gondola's are some  of the best rolling stock I have ever seen. I know they weight more but once you get them rolling you could push them with a feather. The quality of these cars would price them out of todays marketplace. OMHO. 

Always die-cast for steam...for diesels, it doesn't matter as long as it has the same detail.  For rolling stock, I want plastic or brass.  the exception is Lionel ore cars...I love the die-cast ore car...it has a bulkier look that I like.

Love my diecast Lionel ES44ACs. 

The zinc issue is simply not common, and never will be again. My zinc HO Mantua 2-8-2

from the early 60's (it's on a shelf) is as solid as the day it was born. That's over 50

years ago.

Most zinc alloys - in use all over the world for many, many things - are as stable as anything around, and will be sitting there, next to the brass and just as intact, for

any length of time worth discussing.

Brass is easier to work, for sure. As a 'basher, I really hate zinc - can't solder it, hard as

nails when you try to file or shape it, fouls files and grinders and manages to be naturally brittle (not the "pest" thing) under some circumstances. I have often wished for plastic steam locomotives - so easy to change.

========

And why do most of us expect our steamers to be metal, but it's OK if a $1000 A-B-A

set of E-8's are plastic-bodied? The exposed steamer details? Well, maybe that's a contributing factor, but there are a lot of delicate thingys poking out from diesels, these days. 

Interesting debate. For me it does not really matter as long as the final product comes together in a quality product. Die cast has nice weight and is extremely durable but often lacks detail. Then again I have seen really bad plastic detailing as well. I think most manufacturers do a good job of balancing positive a negatives of all the manufacturing methods available in order to meet the market price points. I mean lets face it you are not going to get a Vision Line or Premier anything without ponying up the cash. I think a Vision Line or premier piece of coal (if Lionel or MTH were to decide to do such a thing) would be too much for the average person. However there are some of us out there that have to have real coal versus black painted metal or colored injected plastic. Given the amount of debate on "prototypical", I assume if money were no object, most people on here would not be happy with anything less that an actual scale live steaming engine that is made exactly like the original in every detail. Rust and all. Balance is a difficult thing, and remember they are still toys. I like playing with highly detailed VL and Premier toys because my imagination sucks in my old age and I'm less likely to run the trains into each other head on or purposely derail them like in my youth. My nephews get the other end of the spectrum because it is nearly indestructible, they don't care if the lights and smoke all work, and model train crashes are cool. We've lost alot of good lego men.