Distinguishing PS1 boards

List of PS1 Engines known to have issues.

Mort

List is inserted here for reference:

20th Century Limited (Scale NYC Hudson, RailKing Dreyfuss

California Zephyr (RailKing F-3 Western Pacific)

RailKing H-8 C&O Allegheny

Scale Shay

Florida Special (RailKing F-3 Florida East Coast)

RailKing PRR K-4s

Scale FP-45 (All Roads)

Daylight (RailKing Gs-4 Southern Pacific) (Daylight C)

Scale Big Boy

RailKing Torpedo

RailKing Texas & Pacific L-3 Mohawk

RailKing Chessie F-3 (from Construction Set)

RailKing SD-60 / SD-60M / SD-70MAC

Scale F40PH (All Roads, Different PFA by Road)

Scale F-3 Forth Run (L&N, SF Chief, SF El Capitan)

RailKing 0-8-0 (With Second Run Whistle)

Scale GP-20 (All Roads)

RailKing NYC Hudson w/Freight Yard Sounds

RailKing Dash-8 (All Roads)

Scale GG-1 Conrail (With FYS)

Scale GG-1 PRR (With PFA)

Symptom
#1 – Engine starts up and reports three clank sounds

Affected Engines ******** All PS-1 engines

Occurs when the operator attempts to move the engine by using the direction button or by turning the throttle off and on again in order to reverse direction. The low battery condition causes the memory to become scrambled. The engine reports the problem with three clank sounds.

Fix : The memory chip must be re-programmed by MTH or an authorized service center.

#2 – Engine starts up and does not move
- PS-1 engines produced in 1995/1996

The low battery condition causes the software to de-select the engine and it never leaves the RESET position.

Requires installation of a new memory chip containing a software update which preventsthe problem from reoccurring

Thanks mort. Now I will have to check if my PS1 is a bad actor.

If you have any of these locomotives, keep a strong battery and you will be ok. Good post Mort. All Protosound users should keep a copy of this and stay on top of the battery situation.

I don't think it is completely correct, since the fix for 3 clanks can be done by the owner and the reset chip MTH sells. I also beleive MTH's position is that the 3 clanks is only a select group of earlier engines.

For the list for deselect, there is another alternative using a good chip from an engine not on the list, and resetting the EEPROM via reset 3, 17, and 18 which clears the id issues. I posted a solution on this forum after researching this issue and discussions with QSI's technical rep. G

GGG, have you done the fix you are conversing about? Good post. I had luck one time with another chip on a deselected situation. Please correct me if I mis understood you. You are clearing the board with a known good chip then installing the deselected chip with a fresh battery. The feature to reselect was not built into those early chips. I am always open to any fix the guys have found.

The 3 clanks is not regulated to a select group of engines. Deselect engines and the 3 clanks are two different situations. When QSI built the list of boards and software that Mort posted those were able to be deselected but not reselected again to operate. Those on the list needed new software to remove the deselect feature QSI initially installed. Most of those got deselected due to a low battery condition. If a customer has one of those engines he needs to get the proper replacement chip from MTH. The new chip does not have the deselect feature built into it. No code will reselect an original deselected chip. These replacement chips are still available to purchase. When MTH had QSI build those systems, QSI was asked to leave out the deselect feature and they did not. If your engine is deselected it will start and just sit. It will not leave the reset position. Some people mistake that condition for an engine locked in neutral.

The 3 clanks of death is a situation created by a low or discharged battery condition. If the battery is low enough or discharged it will not supply enough current to the circuit board for the board to function and you then have a scrambled board. Early on if a customer had the 3 clanks he had to come to to one of the guys that went to the MTH repair school. Those people received the chips to do the fix. Now anyone can purchase the reset kit. After the software fix chip reinitializes the board the battery must be kept up or the same situation could happen again. Remember to reset your engine to feature 18 after installing the original chip and new battery.

Any MTH Protosounds 1 engine can go into the 3 clanks condition if operated with a low or discharged battery. This condition is not regulated to the list Mort published with the deselect engines. Again, any Protosounds 1 engine built up until mid 2000 can have the 3 clanks situation.

It is a good idea to print and save Morts list as it can be helpful if you run into one of these that appears to be locked in neutral. It is not locked in neutral but deselected and can not be reselected by any code. You will need replacement software.

Marty, Yes I have, 4 or 5 to date. The QSI system allowed you to assign Eng ID and road numbers to basically have more control over multiple engines on the same track in conventional. For an engine that had an ID assigned, it would be in a deselected state and will not respond until it's ID is sent.

The engine will startup and provide 2 bells, to indicate the processor startup, but then be silent. I have seen some engines start up and sounds remain.

The shutdown with a low battery allowed the engine to be deselected (basically stored an engine ID in memory erronously), but the software does not allow you to select the engine via an ID. The deselect resides on the EEPROM memory ( a chip near the removeable PROM Chip).

These deslected engines can not be advanced beyond the first reset postion, so there is no way to clear the Engine ID.

Installing a later PROM chip with the newer software allows this deselected state to be ignored and the engine starts up and runs. The engine IDs are stored in certain locations, and they are not changed by restoring defaults via reset 18. Through research and trial and error, I found the newer chip would allow you to go to the reset positions were IDs are located. I would clear them, then advance to reset 18 and reset to the defaults. This process clears all the EEPROM memory spots with IDs in them. When you go back to the old chip, it can now communicate with the EEPROM (becasue there is no engine ID assigned) and all works fine. I have tried just clearing position 3 and it did not work, so I have stuck to clearing all the memory spots. It also did not work using my modern ZW, but when I used the Z-4000 it worked.

I do know the deselect and 3 clanks are different. There is a single chip provided for the 3 clank issue, and anyone can buy it. Techs actually get 5 chips. A F-3 test chip, the 3 clanks, and 3 programming chips.

MTH provides a list of deselect engine with stock numbers, I though it was on their web, but maybe not.

I still believe that MTH thinks the 3 clanks comes from trying to do a default reset with a dead battery.

The EEPROM also includes circuitry that doesn't allow the micro processor to operate if the battery is dead. There is a narrow range of weak battery that can cause these issues.

Personnally, I have not come across a QSI or MTH engine that could not be restored, with a new good battery. My sample size is not very large, but I can tell you my own PS1s have been started on dead batteries quite a few times and they come back once a battery is installed. If it won't move I shut it down, I don't try to cycle more or enter a reset state.

This is like starting up a Microsoft program in safe mode when you have startup conflicts. Allows you to get the software in the PROM to work with the memory that was stored on the EEPROM during the last session. G

The list of deselect locomotives is in the tech section. I have had good luck resetting most of them using some of the other reset chips in the set. It is wild how many PS1 locomotives have been showing up for repairs. For a while they were a thing of the past. Having done many PS2 upgrades I have built up a huge supply of PS1 boards and chips.
Good info you put up. MTH states the 3 clanks come from trying to leave reset with a dead or low battery not trying to do a reset. Every battery gets tested under a load on any PS1 before I will attempt to power it up. Many guys will put the meter on a battery without a load and think they are in good shape. Not a good thing.
The newer chips do not have the deselect function built in. When MTH contracted with QSI that was an issue that was not desired (deselect/reselect) and it somehow got by. As stated, you can deselect them but not reselect them. The newer chips are cheap and a small price to pay to be done with this headache.

GGG and Marty, I printed your info off and am putting it in my Barry books folder of useful information "extras".

Thanks

Marty, Yes I have had a string come in also. It is what made me do all the investigating, plus I want my Premier PS-1 J to run for ever

I have started many engines with dead batteries, or had engines given to me dead. None have had the 3 clanks.

I guess I need to ask Jeff again, I thought he said trying a reset. I really haven't seen an engine yet that I needed to use the chips on. G

Mark,  Engines with DCRU did not have batteries, and the only sound was a horn or whistle via a separate board.

 

Sounds like this was upgraded, so a picture would help determine what is installed.

 

When you first start it up voltage needs to be below 10 volts to come out of reset.  Some early units need pure sine wave transformers, so some of the newer electronic transformers won't work.  Need some more info.  G

FWIW...  The last PS1 engine brought into the store with '3-clanks of death' was the first run of the Burlington Zephyr articulated set...Railking.  Henry (customer's name) admitted that he hadn't run it for quite a while and simply gave it a lot of throttle to get it going. 

 

Anyhoo, we used the reset chip we keep at the store.   Installed a BCR, waited a full minute at 10 volts (Z4000) to charge the BCR, back to zero, and off we go...all systems functional.

 

Works like a charm. 

 

Happy customers!

 

Yay!!!

 

KD

 

 

Yes, I think using the throttle instead of the direction button is the best way to start up a PS1 engine as the voltage gets lower than 10 volts and it takes more time and gives the engine a chance to leave reset. I never use the direction button on any engine, even my PW. I don't like to see an engine take off like a rocket anyway.