Do I have enough power with just a 180w from Lionel for this layout? 16x8 layout

Sounds like it should be more than adequate to me. I have a very similar layout, but I have the loops isolated and use 1 PH-180 for each loop. Mine might be a bit of overkill as I seldom run more than one train per loop and I could easily get by with one PH-180.

Robert, I'm a little confused. Isn't that only part of the layout or did you change things? This is what I have in my files. My understanding is that you plan to run the Acela on the Green line, the GG1 on the Blue line and the diesel on the Yellow/Purple lines. I believe the 180 puts out 10 amps and I assume the passenger cars are all LEDs, so I agree with RTR12 and think you'll have enough power.

It should be fine off one PH-180. I run two loops off a Postwar ZW which has similar output to a PH-180 without issue. All the lights and accessories are run off a separate transformer. 

DoubleDAZ posted:

Robert, I'm a little confused. Isn't that only part of the layout or did you change things? This is what I have in my files. My understanding is that you plan to run the Acela on the Green line, the GG1 on the Blue line and the diesel on the Yellow/Purple lines. I believe the 180 puts out 10 amps and I assume the passenger cars are all LEDs, so I agree with RTR12 and think you'll have enough power.

 

Changed it. Removed the ramp and the loop up top because of the panto-graphs. Green loop is completely separate and runs a Subway. Do I dare hook that up also to the same power supply?

Acela and GG1 run on outer loops only being o-72s.

Add up the current ratings of the locos to be run simulataneously and compare to current rating for the 180 brick.    My guess is  you have way more than enough with newer locos.

Robert Cushman posted:

DoubleDAZ posted:

Robert, I'm a little confused. Isn't that only part of the layout or did you change things? This is what I have in my files. My understanding is that you plan to run the Acela on the Green line, the GG1 on the Blue line and the diesel on the Yellow/Purple lines. I believe the 180 puts out 10 amps and I assume the passenger cars are all LEDs, so I agree with RTR12 and think you'll have enough power.

 

Changed it. Removed the ramp and the loop up top because of the panto-graphs. Green loop is completely separate and runs a Subway. Do I dare hook that up also to the same power supply?

Acela and GG1 run on outer loops only being o-72s.

Thats my old layout, Im using this one.

If I'm using a TIU from my 180 brick, how many feeds should I have going to different spots of the track? or should I just run an mth engine using the app to see where low voltage spots are? Whats the ideal voltage rating, or signal strength?  Do I need to put a few more feeds and get a terminal block?

I would quarter each loop, isolating the center rail between each block (or quarter). Also isolate the center rail in the crossover between loops. Run 1 power and 1 common to the center of each block (or quarter. (Just a thought, but I would also consider adding a second crossover between loops, isolated the same as the first one.)

Use TIIU Fxd 1 channel for one loop and TIU Fxd 2 channel for the other. Power both TIU channel inputs from your PH-180. Wire outputs to separate terminal blocks for each channel, then run your track feeds from the terminal blocks to their respective tracks. I used #14 twisted pair, stranded wire to the terminal blocks and #16 twisted pair, stranded wire to the track drops. I used OGR wire which they no longer sell, but a very similar wire to OGR's is available on Monoprice. I found this wire thanks to a link provided by forum member Gilly. I can find you a link if you are interested.

Isolate the center rail after each switch going to your two sidings and add a feed to the center of each siding. Put a SPST switch in the feed to the siding so you can park an engine and shut off the power to it with the switch while it's not in use. It's good practice to keep parked engines unpowered.

My layout is very similar to yours in size and track plan. It is wired just as I described. I haven't had any DCS problems since it was first wired it in 2014. It's still working as good as ias it was when first wired.

Do you have a photo of your layout on scarm with where you put your feeds in? I'm confused by what you mean by "quarter each loop" and how would I isolate a track? I can look it up but just wanted to see if you had a photo because I'm a better visual learner.

Or could you just snip my layout and put x's where I should wire it up?

I can also grab another 180 to toss on this layout which would probably help. I had 15.00 volts and a 1-5 signal on DCS at the far end of the track.

Robert, I believe he's talking about dividing things up along these lines, each color being a quarter of each oval. The purple sections could have an on/off switch so the engines don't run when parked.

BTW, note that I fixed the joints.

Bingo!

Dave has basically done everything for me besides buy the trains. I'll be forever indebted to him.

Dave, I've also added a central o-48 elevated track that hasn't been hooked up yet. Not sure how I should hook that up either but I do want to run everything off the same Legacy controller. How do I make the purple sections turnoff?

Lionel makes a FasTrack 5" block track for just that purpose and a link to a thread here on how to use it.

As for the elevated section, I'd divide that in half too and simply run wires to it. Here's a simplistic diagram.

Dave nailed it! I think he is a bit familiar with my layout too (unless his memory is getting as bad as mine). In his above track plan, he has shown what I was talking about with the quartering of the loops. Each quarter would be a block. I don't have the extra loop you're adding, but looks like Dave has that well covered too. 

Basically, to turn off your sidings you run the power wire (hot) for the siding from your terminal strip to one terminal of a SPDT switch (just like a light switch, on or off, it will have 2 terminals), then from the 2nd terminal out to the center rail of the siding you want to turn off. The comon wire just goes from the terminal strip directly to the siding outside rail. 

I am not real familiar with Fastrack, but it looks like Dave has that covered with the 5" piece as well. I think the outer (common) rails on Fastrack are also tied together, if so you can connect to either outer of the outer rails.

RTR12, if you look closely at a photo of the top of the FasTrack Block track, you can see where the tracks are insulated from each other. If you look ate the bottom, you’ll find 3 sets of jumpers, 1 for each track. To cut power, I believe you simply add a toggle switch to the set for the center rail. You can do it with regular track, but it’s more work. It doesn’t have to be done if he’s not going to store spare engines on the layout.

Who makes the easiest to hook up spdt? 

Also the last question I’ll have is hooking it to my Terminal and then to the tiu ports.

would this cord be the easiest way http://www.nicholassmithtrains...-WIRE-SET/MTH401015/

Dave, I didn't look at the link, but I have now. Also looked at the instructions. The Fastrack system is really well thought out. I have always like it too. And yes no need to switch the sidings if they will not be used that way, but might be nice to have the switches just in case. I also certainly admire you guys that can remember and keep track of all these old threads around here!

Robert, I think 'easy' depends on who's doing the wiring. I would just look for a 10 amp SPST toggle switch. They are available in many different wiring connection configurations. Auto parts stores usually have a fair selection and they are usually have high enough amperage ratings. Ebay or Amazon would be a couple more good places to check (probably less expensive) and your local train store if you have one.

As far as connecting to your Fastrack terminals, I don't know what type of connection these take? But you can use 0.110" female crimp quick connects, ebay is probably a good place to find them. I think almost all pieces of Fastrack have lugs to connect these to. Auto parts stores might even have these too?

For the TIU I think most folks probably use banana plugs. Quality on those varies quite a bit. After trying a few different brands, I found some I like at Digikey, they come in pairs, red and black. Digikey Part: 461-1214-ND  Some may say they are a bit expensive, but they are made of heavier metal heavy and fit quite snugly in the TIU jacks, and you only need a few pairs. 

This thread shows how to manually wire FasTrack if you don't use the FasTrack terminal tracks.

Here's a new photo showing placement of the FasTrack Block tracks (#6-12060) on the spurs. Again, if you don't plan to store spare engines there, the blocks with the on/off switch aren't needed.

rtr12 posted:

I also certainly admire you guys that can remember and keep track of all these old threads around here! 

Way too much credit. All I do is a Google search and the threads are often one of the results. It helps too have some experience with searching and knowing what terms to use, but it's not rocket science, as they say.

You are giving up all your trade secrets here!   I never think of Google when I'm on here, that's a good idea. I'm not the best with search terms either, it's hit and miss. I do think of searching places where I know a certain thing is, like Digikey parts, ebay etc. Just seldom think of Google for train related things. Gotta remember that one!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCDM-...essory-/192210827258

Would this work?

This ok?

Robert, your concept is correct. However, if you want to follow the guidelines for DCS wiring there's more to it than just connecting the wires. Here's a more complete diagram specifically for DCS.

The Black tracks are the Lionel FasTrack 5" Block tracks, part number 6-12060, that I mentioned earlier. You simply tap a SPST toggle switch to the Center jumper to turn power on an off. You can mount the toggle switch wherever it's convenient. Again, you don't need these unless you plan to park engines on the spurs while you are running others. They're only so you don't add run time to the engines when they are parked for extended periods and not really running.

The Gray tracks are the power connection tracks. Terminal tracks are easiest to use because they have connectors with wires already attached. If you use a standard track, I don't believe they have connectors underneath, so you have to manually connect the wires, usually by soldering.

The Red lines are block ends. This is where you isolate the Center rail. I don't use FasTrack, so I don't know if it's as simple as pulling the center rail pins and making sure the rails don't touch. I'm not sure about isolating other rails on the crossover switches.

FWIW, we tend to get hung up on suggestions for DCS to separate layouts into blocks of 10 joints, to isolate the center rail and to wire 10-12 blocks per TIU channel. That's how we came up with the suggestion to divide your layout into blocks. RTR12 will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe DCS likes the power connections (Gray tracks) close to the center of each block so power (control signal) is distributed more evenly.

I was just over there and one engine shut off completely here 

This is what I have under my track then to banana plugs into TIU in my terminal piece which is powering the entire thing which is probably the reason the Acela pooped out where it did.

Am I correct that there is a single set of wires going from the 180 to the TIU and a single set of wires going from the TIU to a terminal track? And right now this powers everything except the elevated oval in the middle?

Does the Acela go through the crossovers without any problems and the only place it stops is on the spur shown in the photo? What about the other spur? Can you run just the engine onto the spur and does it still stop?

 How many terminal tracks do you have?

Only 1 set of wires powering that entire layout going direct into TIU then other side of tiu is 180 Brick.  

Yes that’s the only spot on the layout it has problems. 

With power on and the train off, you might want to check the voltage before, at and after the switch with a voltmeter to help narrow down what the issue is.

Do other engines go through that switch w/o problems ? 

Did you run just the engine through that switch and does it stop at the same place?

Stops in same spot. I’ll do some more testing tomorrow. Do you think I could get away with just one of those terminals?

If it stops in the same spot, then I suspect the power connection is somehow broken between the curve and the straight track. I doubt it’s a lack of enough power, but a lack of any power. There’s obviously power on the curve, so power is not getting to the straight and to me it only makes sense that no power is getting to the straight track. Ritchie is right, if you have a voltmeter, check for voltage. If you don’t have one, try putting a lighted car on the spur. You can also try connecting power to the other end, but that doesn’t narrow it down much. You can try a different track there too and make sure all the rails are connected properly.

I don’t have a lighted car but one with freightsounds that will do the same. In the meantime I’ll order the terminal and track I need to finish my layout. Also will let u know how those spdts workout. Need to get more copper wire to make those connections. The beauty of that track is that every piece can be used as a terminal to connect power to. 

You really don't need terminal tracks to add more power feeds. Every full section of Fastrack has tabs for power, as you stated above. They are way overpriced for a notch and wire that is way too small. The 1 and 3/8" sections can also be used to isolate the center rail by just removing the jumper wire underneath.

John if I did add more power feeds where would I connect all of them if I didn’t use that terminal? The tiu only has 1 more output I think.

Then I could connect it to the terminal with this

For discussion purposes, here are what I see as some wiring options:

I suspect you can get away with this, but I can't guarantee you won't run into DCS problems without separating the layout into blocks and adding power drops to each block. Notice the toggle switches are missing.

Here are the toggle switches added.

Here's another option with more power drops, but no block insulators. Again, I can't guarantee you won't have DCS issues. I think RTR12 might be able to comment on that because I believe he ran into issues before he added the blocks.

Here's a repost of the full breakdown I posted earlier. You can try adding the 1 3/8" "kill switch" tracks John mentioned, but you'd have to change where the blocks break so each crossover is in the same block or adding the short tracks between them will cause fitment issues.

I asked that guy who makes the switches on eBay with a 3D printer and said I won’t need a block after the switch unless the other end is continuous but if it’s a dead end there won’t be a problem. Those are very nice. I’ll probably try the first wiring job. If I experience problems I’ll add the other side. I like Legacy better than DCS and prefer the remote vs the app. If that doesn’t work I’ll get either another 180watt Brick or go for the big ZW-L. 

How about one of these? https://mthtrains.com/30-74970

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lSN38DKdcDA

I'm sorry, Robert. I misunderstood what you meant by terminal. You were talking about the terminal strip, and I was thinking track.

John H posted:

I'm sorry, Robert. I misunderstood what you meant by terminal. You were talking about the terminal strip, and I was thinking track.

Yeah the terminal strip sorry.