Early 1900's Tin Plate 817 Lionel Caboose, finally back on the 263E Work Train consist.

Dave,

  Nice job. I noticed the Pitcairn sign, but could not tell if that was a railroad club? 

Tom 

Looks good Dave, Can't wait to see your new setup!

Tom,

   Actually the old Pitcairn License Plate came out of the Antique Shop located in the former Braverman Arms Building in Pitcairn, Pa.  The original men who belonged to that particular Train Club also worked in the Pitcairn Train Yard long ago.  I do believe the 94 License Plate was the last one ever made.  It is my understanding that all the members run both their real and their O Gauge Trains, with the Lord now.  I was lucky to acquire the License Plate for my Train Room, because one of the Great Grand children of one of the members did not want the license plate destroyed.  The owner of the store knows me and set the Pitcairn Railroaders License Plate aside for me.

Thanks for noticing it.  I believe the old members of the Pitcairn Railroader's would appreciate knowing it's still around, and that somebody took an interest in their organization. 1894 - 1994 Now their sir is a real Train Organization over 100 years old and now gone into history.  Nice to have acquired one of the last License Plates for my Train Room.

PCRR/Dave

Dennis H,

Lots of engineering planning and building work to be accomplished on the rest of the Train Room yet.  The snow removal is stealing part of my Engineering design time, hope to get back to it this next week however.

Next however we need to back up and get the Street Cars running correctly on the HellGate Bridge, using one of the old ZW 250 Transformers that already runs the 59 CoCa Cola Train.

The Legacy system needs to be boxed up and sent back to Lionel for repairs also.

All the Best,

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the close-up picture.

I recall as a youngster in the 1960's playing around a small coal contractor' facility with a small coal trestle on the edge of Pitcairn Yard. 

Tom 

Nice looking. I have 4 or them 1 red over red and then 3 of the green over green, All could be refurbished but probably not. There not that bad except one has a couple small rust spots. 

Any hint on getting the roofs off of these. 

she's a beauty Dave....might just have to pick up a red one to go with this one...

rtraincollector posted:

Nice looking. I have 4 or them 1 red over red and then 3 of the green over green, All could be refurbished but probably not. There not that bad except one has a couple small rust spots. 

Any hint on getting the roofs off of these. 

If the rust is on top of the paint, it may come off with some car polish. I am using Blue Magic TR3 Resin Glaze. It is a wax, cleaner and polish. It's a little more aggressive than carnauba wax, so go slow. If the rust is through the paint, you can't remove it without damaging the paint. Try a dab of Corroseal Rust Converter to stop the rust from expanding. be careful with the surrounding paint and test it on junk piece first. There used to be something called Rust to Black, but I don't see it online.

George

The thing is there is a run in the paint also. I do not believe this is a repaint as a couple of my cars have it. I remember hearing that lionel use to do a dip and drain paint system back then. Also it appears to be more like a corrosive was dripped on it by mistake as there is a couple of spots. One is worse than the rest. even one of the brass plates has a tiny bit on a corner. I have a friend if he gets time will sand blast it and prime it so it don't rust by time I can paint it. 

rtraincollector posted:

The thing is there is a run in the paint also. I do not believe this is a repaint as a couple of my cars have it. I remember hearing that lionel use to do a dip and drain paint system back then. Also it appears to be more like a corrosive was dripped on it by mistake as there is a couple of spots. One is worse than the rest. even one of the brass plates has a tiny bit on a corner. I have a friend if he gets time will sand blast it and prime it so it don't rust by time I can paint it. 

I would try a cleaning wax. It might come right off. It would be a shame to repaint it unless it really needs a restore. Rust may have actually transferred to it from close contact with another item. Something may have dripped on it. 

George

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

 

 At over 100 years old the original Lionel 817 little boys toy is still a beauty of a Caboose.

Technically, she's only 83 years old (1935), but still looks good for her age.

George,

   The reason I picked her up at the Worlds Greatest Hobby Show was she was in such pristine condition, except for the couplers being missing.  In reality that is her original condition with swapped Trucks and Couplers.

Steamer,

    David I could use a nice full Green (Aqua) 817, to go with my others.  Seems I have a few of them now.  I call it my accidental mini 817 collection.

Joe,

   I knew you would bust me!  However you are probably correct.

PCRR/Dave

The consist has both the original full Red Lionel 817 and the MTH Repro Red & Brown 817.  Dave your Aqua 817 would look good with them, along with my newly acquired 817 with the Peacock roof.  It would sort of round out a nice little collection of Tin Plate Cabooses.  I will have to start looking around for one!  I would steal yours, but it has the wrong couplers.

Looks great, Dave! I've never seen an 817 in those colors before. 

John 

Dave- nice caboose! The room is looking good

John,

  I do not think there were all that many of them made in those particular colors, I was very happy to have found one in great shape.  Really like Steamer's (David's) Light Green colored 817 also, I am going to look around for one of them at the Train Shows and on the Net, and add it on to the mini 817 collection.  Just picked another full Red 817 with Box Couplers Aft and Fore - end, heck I can not get the Trucks & Couplers for that cost any more.  Looks like a full light Green 817 like Steamer pictured from his collection, is going to be a little harder to find, especially with the Box Auto-Couplers.

RSJB18,

   Thank you sir for the nice comment on my new Train Room, long way to go yet!  However the child like wonderland is starting to take shape.

PCRR/Dave

There are 4 main color variations. Started Dark Green over Peacock Blue, then Peacock Blue over Red, Then all red, finally Tuscan Brown over Red... Production variations with plates, trucks,  trim colors and paint sheen (Gloss red vs. Flat Red) there are almost 20 reported variations....and thats NOT including the 2817 versions.

For example there was never a Dark Green over Peacock Blue made with Box Couplers, but it had 3 latch coupler types during its production run.

Bob,

   Did the full light (Aqua) Green 817 ever come with Box Couplers, maybe I am looking for something that really does not exist.  Steamer's (David's) has the Latch couplers and I got to tell you, I can not find one any where, with Box Couplers of any type.

By the way I did get my full flat Red 817 with the one fore-end Auto-Coupler back on line also, talk about a real hummer to find.  Never realized the older ones seldom came with box auto-couplers, dropping that particular Caboose turned into a night mare. I was lucky to pick up another full bright Red 817 with 2 Box couplers this last week, it will arrive here at the house around the 19th of February they say.  So I will have both full Red versions with the Box Auto Couplers for my little 817 collection.  Got to tell ya the Peacock/bright Red & Black with the Gold trimming is a serious looking 817, nothing in the MTH repro's looks any where near as classy as that Lionel original. 

PCRR/Dave

According to Greenberg Lionel vol. II, 1988, it did not. I don't know what Bruce has found since then in his new book. By the way, it's Peacock with a dark green roof to be precise. The red 817 with black frame came with box couplers, and there was no Peacock colored 2817. But, my motto is that, unless you are buying this for your museum, have it your way. I just created an American Flyer 3209 with a Lionel latch coupler as a transition car.

George

I just sent my peacock caboose and some other parts to be sandblasted. So I can repaint it. It had what looked like some kind of solvent burn in a couple of places. but appeared to not hurt the body any just the paint and a corner of the brass plate where the L in lionel at the bottom corner but I think I can work it out. What I now need to find is a color in a can close to peacock and the dark green, or I may paint it red as I already have 2 other peacock and only one red

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Bob,

   Did the full light (Aqua) Green 817 ever come with Box Couplers, maybe I am looking for something that really does not exist.  Steamer's (David's) has the Latch couplers and I got to tell you, I can not find one any where, with Box Couplers of any type.

By the way I did get my full flat Red 817 with the one fore-end Auto-Coupler back on line also, talk about a real hummer to find.  Never realized the older ones seldom came with box auto-couplers, dropping that particular Caboose turned into a night mare. I was lucky to pick up another full bright Red 817 with 2 Box couplers this last week, it will arrive here at the house around the 19th of February they say.  So I will have both full Red versions with the Box Auto Couplers for my little 817 collection.  Got to tell ya the Peacock/bright Red & Black with the Gold trimming is a serious looking 817, nothing in the MTH repro's looks any where near as classy as that Lionel original. 

PCRR/Dave

 

Dave, No Green/Peacock had box couplers. Actually after the Manual box and electrocouplers were introduced they were plentiful!  I agree that the Peacock over red with brass trim is a looker. I also agree that the originals look nicer than the repros.

George,

   I like the idea of the 3209 Transition car, good thinking sir!

PCRR/Dave

Steamer,

   David how about a better picture of your 817 Green Caboose, I missed the fact that it is really 2 tone Green, show us some more pictures please!  Got to get a better idea of what to look for.

PCRR/Dave

Bob English,

    I am thinking of making a full consist of as may of the different original 817 Cabeese as I can find to pull behind my 249ERR Engine and Tender.  If I pick up an early 2 tone Green 817, will I be able to switch the Base unit on it and have at least the Auto Couplers match up with the rest of my 817?  Will the shell of the older 817 with the Latch Couplers mounting Tabs, be in the exact same places required to switch the body shells to the later made Lionel Base?  I think it will however I am not exactly sure.

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

 If I pick up an early 2 tone Green 817, will I be able to switch the Base unit on it and have at least the Auto Couplers match up with the rest of my 817?  Will the shell of the older 817 with the Latch Couplers mounting Tabs, be in the exact same places required to switch the body shells to the later made Lionel Base?  I think it will however I am not exactly sure.

PCRR/Dave

Yes, you should be able to pry the body off and switch the frames out with one that has box couplers.  Easy swap.

Be glad you didn't accidentally buy the Ives version of this caboose.  Those Ives couplers are a real pain the rear to switch out, as they are attached to the trucks.  You need to good pry bar for sure.  I still haven't quite figured out how to make mine work as the mounting brackets get in the way.  

I'll probably have to switch the frame as well...

Pcrr/Dave,

If you like two tone green, check out this one.  Box couplers already on it!