Empire State Express question - an update!

Here you go Steve.

Pete

Some more,

Big help you guys! Thanks. 

I am not one to say they shouldn't produce something just because it is not something that I would want, but I don't know if it would sell all that well, as it doesn't "Look Right/Match".

 Steam pulling Streamlined cars, and Diesels pulling Heavyweights, are not modeled, nearly as often as it really happened, and the real railroads mixed Heavyweights and streamlined cars MUCH more often, than you ever see in the model world. The real railroads also ran many more passenger trains WITHOUT an observation car carrying the markers, than you see modeled.

Modelers in general, and 3 railers in particular tend to model things as they think they "Should" look, whether the real railroads did it or not. Hopefully for those that would want a black PT behind an ESE locomotive, MTH will feel there will be ENOUGH sale to justify producing this set.

Doug

Maybe MTH could offer the NYC PT tender as a separate sale item for customers that already own either of the two ESE streamlined Hudson models. Additionally, MTH could also offer that NYC PT tender painted for the 20th Century Limited (the later 1940's styling without the blue stripes) for those customers that already own the various streamlined 20th Century Hudson models.

While I prefer the ESE in its original configuration I know a lot of folks like the PT tender. One option for MTH is offer the tender as a separate sale item. All they would have to do is renumber a PT tender for these engines.

Steve if you notice in the all of the pics the streamlining started to come off by the time the PT tender was used. Ideally MTH would make the streamlining removable to better represent the prototype. 

Pete

Hot Water, I think that would be an EXCELLENT idea, that would likely generate more sales than would a "Mis-matched" set.

 They haven't done it before, and it may not have enough profit potential, but just a tender shell, could keep the price down and avoid no sound, proto-sound, PS2, PS3 issues.

Doug

I sure don't know what "just a tender shell" would do for anyone, since the PT tender frame & wheel arrangement is TOTALLY different from any other NYC tender series.

I didn't know if the PT tender had been done or not, the original post had been about a BLACK tender in particular, so if the PT Tender hasn't been done, then a shell only option doesn't work, and complete tenders are needed. My suggestion of a shell was to avoid buying the electronics, that one probably already has, in order to keep the price down.

Doug

OK, a few points to answer your comments:

1) MTH has produced the NYC PT tender, many times over. The NYC 4-8-4 Niagara models only came with PT tenders as delivered to NYC, and those tenders were never changed out nor replaced. That is how MTH modeled the NYC Niagara also.

2) At my direct suggestion to both Mike and Andy, MTH issued models of NYC J1e locomotives WITH the PT tender, and they sold out VERY quickly, and I believe they even reissued that model again, some years later.

3) A separate sale PT tender would have to include all the necessary electronics in order to be connected to either the ESE Hudson nor the 20th Century Hudson, respectively. Otherwise the locomotive would not operate.

MTH has a number of PS3 Hudsons with PT tenders at dealers now. Steve has a few in stock. Its just a matter of changing the number to make it suitable for the ESE Hudsons. Anyone could do it right now but it would require taking it from one of the unstreamlined Hudsons. Not an ideal solution.

Pete

I like the separate sale idea. If you recall, this is what Lionel did with the CCII ESE Hudson (6-38000). They offered the PT tender (6-38097) as an option for the engine. This is the one with the 4 Mini-FatBoy speakers.

I personally like the Hudsons with the PT tenders. I have 3, the CCII Lionel ESE Hudson with the optional tender, the MTH J1E from 2001 and the MTH Dreyfuss (Scullin Disc) from 2006.

The Lionel ESE also had removable streamlining, the ashpan cover and longer piece below the walkway. 

Pete

Hi guys,

I have a question regarding these 2 NYC Empire State Express Hudsons.  I recently saw a photo of a model of one of them with a PT tender and the area of the boiler above the running boards and below the top skyline shroud was painted a medium gray color, not the silvery color that they were originally painted. 

Can anyone verify this color change?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

You may have seen a picture of the Mercury. The shrouded pacifics were replaced with a Hudson that resembled the ESE.

The Mercury loco shown above did not resemble the ESE - it was (one of) the ESE locos,

re-named and re-assigned.

======

Also, this below was a Mercury Hudson, but not a J3a - it's J1e 5344 (ex-Commodore Vanderbilt) re-streamlined in the Century style like the original 1938 20th Century J3a's.

There are many detail differences (including the tender styling) between this loco and the "factory-done" (Alco) Centuries. 

Thanks guys,

Yes, I believe that when the ESE Hudson was transferred to pull the Mercury they painted that area a gray.  But then they had a 6 wheeled tender assigned to it at that time.  Not a PT tender (at least I could not find a photo of the Mercury Hudson with a PT tender).

Steve 

Lionel modeled the Mercury version in the 2015 Volume 1 catalog, with the unstreamlined J3A Hudson tender. The upper half should be gray not white, but it is a concept model anyways, so we'll see how it actually turns out.

Here are some pictures of streamlined NYC engines, including the Rexall 4-8-2 Mohawk, which I had forgotten about.

NYC streamlined engines

The Empire state Express Hudson is the only streamlined Hudson I like.   Still debating whether or not to grab a Lionel Legacy one when they come out at the end of Dec.

(I always wanted to see the ESE (and Century, for that matter) Hudsons in a solid black paint job. Not prototypical, but so appealing in my head.)

Anyway:

Did my own a couple of years ago; the Lionel detachable skirting is really a big help;

top photo is not extremely sharp:

 I also removed the "Empire State Express" script above the NYC oval.

D500,

That is what I thought it looked like when the shroud was painted a grayish color.  Did you paint it?  I see that you also painted the drivers.

Steve 

Well, an update. Right now it looks like MTH will go ahead and run the two ESEs with the matching tenders as catalogued then we are asking them to run a third engine with the black PT tender as an uncatalogued item. Which road number should we use? I can't really tell from the provided pictures. Assuming this is a go, I will post the product number here and the art work from MTH when I get them. 

I realize that the 2016 Volume One orders are due this week. If you're interested in this version with the PT tender, go ahead and order one of the catalogued versions off of our website, and we can convert it. No deposit required. 

Thanks. 

If MTH will let you, both.

If not, 5426. That way, it will be distinguished from the Lionel one back in 2005 which was 5429. Just my logic and 2 cents,

Nickstrains.

Edit: The picture that Norton posted is the 5426, (I googled New York Central 5426 and it came up under images.) https://www.google.com/search?...ntral+5426&imgrc=_

An excellent suggestion, as there were only two ESE Hudsons anyway, i.e. #5426 and #5429.

I agree with Nick's logic. Lionel has done the 5429. MTH could do 5426. Given MTH doesn't have engine specific sounds the tender number could easily be changed anyway.

Pete

Couldn't they just do a run of tenders?