Possible to install ERR in a Lionel (Conventional) 0-4-0?

Hi Allan

I think it can be done, as long as the cruise commander fits in the boiler

the sound can stay inside the tender, you would need a tether between the engine and tender.

Alex

I just looked at the parts diagram on the Lionel site. The cruise commander looks like it will fit in place of the reverse unit, so I would say yes it can be done

Alex

Allan-

Even with the sloped tender, I don't see why any of the ERR boards wouldn't fit. There could be a potential space issue with using the Cruise Commander and the (old or new) Railsounds Commander, but there should be plenty of room for the Mini Commander and the (old or new) Railsounds Commander combination.

Cruise Commander: 2.75" long x 1.25" wide x 1.2" tall

Mini Commander 2: 2" long x 1" wide x 0.65" tall

Railsounds Commander (new version): 1.75" long x 1.25" wide x 0.5" tall

-John

I'm sure the MiniCommander 2 and the new RS Commander would be no sweat at all.  It could be a bit tighter with the Cruise Commander and the new RS Commander.  Remember, you need to fit a speaker in there as well.

Hi John,

The speaker and ERR sound board can stay in the tender, the commander looks like it will fit in the boiler.  Take a look below

If you get the Cruise Commander in the boiler, this is an easy install.  I wonder if the handrails are insulated or you'd have to deal with that as well?

John,

Great question, about the handrails, if they aren't insulated it's going to be a rough install for the antenna.

On further review Alex, you may be assuming facts not in evidence.

Here's the original unit, it's the same size as the TMCC DCDS.

Pardon the blurry pictures, quick snaps with my phone, but the CC is considerably larger and taller than the existing reverse unit.  I wouldn't want to say it would fit without actually doing a trial fit of one.

Yes John I see what you mean, and I agree. A trial fit is a must in this situation

As far as the handrails they seem too be insulated see photo below

They must have intended this to have TMCC.  There is a TMCC version of this I believe, I guess they just use the same shell hardware.

You guys sure know your stuff!  I'm pretty much clueless on technical things like this.  If it's possible to do (for sure) I'll go ahead and get one.  Then would need to know who can do the install.

Allan, If you are referring to the recent Lionel 0-4-0 based on the K-Line A-5 then it should not be a problem as K-Line offered theirs with TMCC and Railsounds.

If you are talking about the traditional sized 0-4-0 based on the Post war 1615, its possible also but a little more difficult. I put this together a few years ago.

Pete

I'm talking about the recent--somewhat overpriced--0-4-0 that is presumably based on the earlier K-Line model (see link in my original post).  Nice engine, but for the MSRP should have included Railsounds and command control (in my opinion).

Alan,

Norton used a light duty Cruise board we no longer sell.   It is probably the best fit for your loco based on the comments I am reading on this thread.

Shortly (in prototype phase now) we will have a similar small cruise board available that may be a better fit for your loco.  The new board is slightly smaller in size as compared to the Lionel Conventional "E" unit.  Between this board and the latest generation of RailSounds, you should be able to fit everything in the loco and tender and just run serial connections between them. 

If you don't need cruise, or can't wait for the new board, you can use the Mini Commander 2 as suggested.

Allan it appears that Lionel used the same motor and smoke unit in their engine as K-Line did. This implies you should have room for at least a non cruise DCDR, R2LC, and motorboard as K-Line used. Some have said they were able to replace the DCDR with a Cruise M in that engine to give you cruise but I have not tried that yet.

Best bet might be to just hold on for Jon's new board. Assuming it uses either an R2LC or R4LC you will get all the features of remote couplers, lights, and smoke on/off plus maybe room for fan driven smoke.

Pete

I had done this Weaver Pennsy A5, (0-4-0) to an older Digital Dynamics TMCC upgrade. I did modify the tender coal door area to accept the electronic.  Shoe horn stuff.  You need to look at the dimensions of Jon's (ERR) upgrade kit already posted. The electro-couplers were not a problem.   The GE 44 tonner pictured has an ERR upgrade.  Good luck with your project.

Mike CT

Thanks, Jon.  I will want cruise--the feature I like most in today's trains--and probably can wait (I'm not quite as impatient as some folks), so now it's just a matter of whether to go ahead and buy the engine now or wait a while and put those $ toward something else I have my eye on.

Pardon me as I drool on my keyboard.   I can't wait to see a smaller cruise board, I have a number of homes for one of those!

I agree, great news. Jon will these require a separate radio board or will it be like the mini commanders. Also will it support all features like an R2LC?

Pete

Uses an R4LC.  I may consider supporting Legacy 200 speed steps in this design.  the board is very similar to the Cruise PE, just smaller (1.25" x 2.25"; with R4 - 0.9" high).  Wish me luck that it works when I get them built up within the next week or so!

awesome news Jon and good luck!

Sounds like I need email lionel marketing to re-release the A5 with your new smaller cruise board!  I was super excited when I saw the 0-4-0 shifter, but was disappointed when it was not legacy/tmcc.  The engine would have been perfect with cruise and electro-couplers.

That sounds great Jon, can't wait to see one of those!  Supporting the 200 steps would be icing on the cake!

I'm a willing beta tester!

Allan, Your post finally motivated me to install a Cruise M in my K-Line A5. These pics will confirm that TMCC will fit in this engine. Top pic shows the engine as delivered with a Lionel DCDR, R2LC, and K-Line motherboard. Second pic shows the non cruise DCDR replaced with a Electric RR Cruise M. It was actually much easier to install the slightly longer Cruise M in this 0-4-0 than it was to install it in the larger B6 0-6-0. The hardest part being trying to shove all the wires under the board.

Someone trying to do a similar install in the Lionel engine would have to find a similar size Lionel motherboard as there is just enough room for it.

Jon's new board should be a piece of cake to install.

Pete

Pete, the Cruise Commander M is smaller than the existing Cruise Commander, so there still is a question as to the fit of the regular Cruise Commander.  That picture makes it seem that even the larger unit might fit in there.

Supporting 200 Speed Steps would be a later endeavor.  The R4LC would need different code to supply the correct commands.  Time permitting, I may be able to get all of the extended commands implemented.

Boy, how cool would that be?

Dumb question, what kind of lighting outputs will the new unit support?  Any differences from the existing one?

Thats true John but if someone could find a short motherboard for the R2LC they could then use the shorter CruiseM. You might also notice that K-Line made a unique heat sink for the engine which mounts to the inside of the triacs vs the more common outside as used on the Cruise Commander. The Cruise Commander might fit lengthwise but a special heatsink would have to be fabricated to mimic K-Line's. The boards barely fit with the inside heatsink. The one used on the cruise commander would not fit.

Pete

I suspected as much Pete.  FWIW, you can buy the motherboards from Lionel, they're normally not that expensive.  I have a number of really small ones that have just the R2LC socket on them.

I can't wait to see the new Cruise Commander, that will open some doors and expand the horizons.  Now, downloadable sound packages would complete the picture.

I still have a one of the older Cruise Commander Lite that I haven't used if someone is in need of one.

Jim

What would it take to separate you from it?   You can send me an email to my profile email.

John,

Another forum member emailed me with 10 min of my post.  I'll let you know if it falls through.

I've also got a couple other ones that were used for about 2 months before the customer choose to go another direction.

Jim

Allan is looking at the possibility of upgrading a Lionel conventional 0-4-0 engine to command with cruise.  If the Lionel engine is based on the K-Line A5, I think it should be possible because that is what I've done to my A5.  Alex Malliae upgraded mine with cruise, added 4-chuffs per revolution, and worked on the smoke unit.  The attached video is not very good, but it shows what can be done to this engine.

Ron

Ron, it would be possible but its not plug and play like upgrading the K-Line engine. Both the Cruise M or Cruise Commander could be used but at the very least new heat sinks would have to fabricated.

Jon Z's new compact cruise board should simplify the installation when it becomes available.

Pete