ESU Loksound 5.0 DC/DCC

If f I understand your question correctly, DCS from MTH will NOT operate any standard DCC decoders from ESU or others.  MTH PS3 locos have both systems on board but you must either throw a switch or in some cases cut a wire to operate MTH PS3 locos on DCC systems.  If can't do both.

As far as I have heard, MTH decoders are compatible with DCC, but not fully compliant.   This comes to me from the local O Scale club.    I have not heard about Loksound, but since they are coming in many OEM products now, I would guess they are fully DCC compliant.

The word locally is that it is difficult to program Loksound decoders, but I have not heard or seen details on this.

@j2morris posted:

If f I understand your question correctly, DCS from MTH will NOT operate any standard DCC decoders from ESU or others.  MTH PS3 locos have both systems on board but you must either throw a switch or in some cases cut a wire to operate MTH PS3 locos on DCC systems.  If can't do both.

Yes, this is correct. Only DCS equipped engines work with DCS.

MTH PS3 engines will work with DCC but the full DCS system does not use DCC to communicate. So you are mixing things up here.

Which MTH system do you have?

I have MTH's DCS and I use it to run the 2-Rail MTH PS3 steam engines on my layout. I am considering the purchase of two Locksound engines (3rd Rail 2-Rail E7's) and my question is whether these will operate using the DCS system if the engines are set to DCC (vs Conventional). (I know they will operate conventionally using 12 VDC, which I can do, but previous 3rd Rail E7's evidently run at a scale speed of about 45 mph on 12 VDC. I would like to operate at 60-65-mph (like real passenger trains do...), and if Loksound uses 18 VDC like DCS does, I assume the speed will be higher than if I operate the locos conventionally using 12 VDC.)

Thinking through this, can I "lashup", i.e. operate two Loksound engines set for DCC? Will there be a switch on each engine with "Conventional" and "DCC" settings?

I have Bridgewerks power supplies which can provide up to 24 VDC at 10 amps. THE way to eliminate all impediments is to just run Scott's Loksound engines conventionally at up to 18 VDC, but I have a concern re the motors and the lights.

There is no switch, if there's no DCC, then it functions on DC. There's no bypass of the decoder, it just runs straight through.  Loksound is able to handle up to something like 21V (for G gauge), so I dont think you'd have a voltage issue, its just a matter of how fast they're gonna go. If you have a way to regulate it (e.g. a dial on the transformer), then you can always turn it down.

no, they won't work with DCS control (using the TIU)  when set to DCC. The two formats work differently. They are looking for the DCC signal.

@Hudson5432 posted:

my question is whether these will operate using the DCS system if the engines are set to DCC (vs Conventional).

I just resurrected (and read!) the DCS Operator's Manual.

The only other locomotives that DCS will control is a Lionel TMCC. (I know that you can obtain a "module" that plugs into the DCS TIU that will operate additional Lionel control systems using the DCS remote.)

The new "non MTH" engine you add at setup MUST be a 3 rail AC motored loco. I also have a 3-rail DCS powered layout and that is the reason for my confusion. (My apologies!) So you are correct that DCS will not operate a Loksound locomotive.

So if I order two 2-Rail 3rd Rail E7's, I must operate them conventionally since I do not use Loksound.

The three questions I now have...

1) Can I operate these 3rd Rail engines at up to 18 VDC in order to increase speed without harming the motors or the lights?

2) What will the max scale speed be? (I have had prior 3rd Rail engines on my layout, operating conventionally, and at 12 VDC they are at approx. 43 mph.)

3) Will there be a switch to turn off the sound?

Perhaps Scott will chime in on these three questions.

Thanks to all.

1) "Can I operate these 3rd Rail engines at up to 18 VDC in order to increase speed without harming the motors or the lights?" YES

2) "What will the max scale speed be? (I have had prior 3rd Rail engines on my layout, operating conventionally, and at 12 VDC they are at approx. 43 mph.)"  Usually somewhat slower than "China style" used by Lionel and MTH.  These "China" drives, even at 18 volts DC, were designed for the "toy" market and run at model speeds much higher than the prototype speeds.  The 3rd rail engines will, however, run much better at slow yard speeds at low voltage and run at accurate model top speeds at 18 volts.

3) "Will there be a switch to turn off the sound?" No

BTW, you don't need a "Loksound" controller, any DCC system will operate any DCC decoder (locomotive).  Just to be clear, DCC is an open standard that many (most) companies use and therefor have interoperable products in N, HO and O scale.  Only Lionel and MTH have proprietary systems that only work with their products unless licensed out (Lionel licenses their system to Atlas 3 rail).  Three rail USA O Gauge is the outlier, all across North America and Europe the vast majority, in fact, nearly all model railroad products are DCC compliant.

J2M

If the decoders don't see a DCC signal, they will interpret what they see as straight DC, and operate at the voltage on the track.    They will run at top speed, unless you can control the voltage on the rails.

As mentioned above DCC is a common open standard control system used by many manufacturers.    DCS, is a closed system that only operates locos from MTH as far as I know. 

@Hudson5432

Just curious, no judging, but why not invest in a DCC system so then as long as your MTH locomotives are set to DCC you can run all of your 2 rail locomotives under one system?

I started using the MTH DCS system on my 3 rail layout, and decided to use it for command control, as an option, on my 2-rail scale layout. (My normal mode of operation on my 2-rail layout is variable DC up to 12 volts, used to operate my USH, Westside, and PSC engines. My brass 2-rail engines do not have any control system installed, and no features.) I use DCS when operating my MTH 2-rail locomotives.

A good friend has a very large HO layout and his roster is SP diesels. He uses DCC with boosters, etc. but I can't recall the supplier. My experience with DCC is operating his layout. He buys three of most diesels and has on his roster HO diesels from all HO manufacturers/importers. He uses a separate programming track, and tweaks the CV's to match the speed characteristics of every diesel to be sure they are all the same and can be used in MU interchangeably. The only thing I do with my MTH fleet is to put the loco on the track and add it to my remote. Much simpler, all of the features I would want and all of them adjustable just using the remote, made this a "no-brainer" for me.

@Hudson5432 I understand. Thanks for the explanation.

I have a bunch of MTH scale wheel locomotives but I also like hearing the sounds of other manufacturers so I like to use one remote to control all of them. I almost never tweak CVs or MU engines. Maybe I will someday but for now I don't have to. If I did decide to MU two locomotives and they are both made by the same manufacturer then there is no need to change CVs. They will most likely (especially if they are similar engines) have the same motor and gear ratios. DCC doesn't have to be complicated. It's all up to the user.