Fix it (if even possible ?) or dump it ?

That locomotive is about 25 years old.  The original grease in the gearbox could easily have solidified by now and in that case you ran it with no lubrication.  External oiling won't do it.  I have a 3rd Rail J1a that sees regular trouble-free operation on my layout but it has new gearbox grease and regularly lubricated side rods.  As far as I know, the axle gears are not available.

You can try North West Short Line - https://nwsl.com/     I've had success talking with them and sending them gears to replace. I have sent them since they want exact measurements. Its easier to let them take a look at the gears then trying to measure.

I would call 3rd Rail and see what they can do. I agree that the gears should have been thoroughly cleaned and greased after 25 years. It is most likely repairable. I do truly understand how it feels to have something really nice go kaput. I would suggest that before any more postings since you should give 3rd Rail a chance to help you at least.

A long time ago customers were clamoring for brass gears.  Brass is a horrible gear material, and we found good for about an hour with good lubrication.

I don't know if Mort used my suggestion, but we submitted a bronze alloy formula.

Sunset at the time supplied free a replacement bronze gear.  I was happy to change the gear if the owner brought me the driver (not the entire mechanism).

A quarter century is a long time for a guarantee, but if they will send you a bronze gear I will install it for postage and good will.

Obviously that offer is only good for a "now and then" repair - I have no desire to go into production.

Or sell it to me for cheap, and I will 2-rail it.

Often when one, of a mating gear set fails, the matching worm gear, is also worn.   Something to consider.

@Mike CT posted:

Often when one, of a mating gear set fails, the matching worm gear, is also worn.   Something to consider.

Not always the case, the worm shaft is usually 10X harder then the worm wheel….yes, occasionally both can fail, but I’ve had gear boxes where the worm wheel had absolutely not nare a tooth left, but the worm shaft was perfectly intact….

as far as the OP, the locomotive is absolutely repairable, and very nice of Bob2 to offer his services…..NWSL has O scale gear boxes complete, push come to shove, change out the entire gear box….

Pat

Thanks for the replies...not sure what direction I’ll be going to at this point...oh and for the record before I ran it I removed the axle gear cover to grease it and there was no solidified grease in it...it never had any grease in it at all. I added grease and still only got 2 minutes of service out of it.

Dump it Bob.

You have a lot better things to spend your time on than this.

If you don't want to put it in the trash, then mail it for free to a Member here who wants it for parts.

Mannyrock

Sounds to me like it is worth fixing, if you are willing to invest the time. If Third rail can't help you, northwest shortline might be the place. Sounds like a nice engine, could be the gear simply got brittle over time and it went. Only other things I can think of is the the shaft the gear rides on, the bearings on that were gunked up, bound and it stripped, you could check that out, disconnect the worm gear and try turning the drive wheels by hand, see if it feels stiff or hard to move.

That J1a has the tower drive and it might be worth checking it out a little closer. Maybe you got lucky and one of the universals slipped. More pics would be nice.

The 3rd Rail J1a is a classic and is absolutely worth fixing.

I would suggest contacting Royz Trains in Michigan he known for doing out warranty work on 3rd Rail locomotives

@Mannyrock posted:

Dump it Bob.

You have a lot better things to spend your time on than this.

If you don't want to put it in the trash, then mail it for free to a Member here who wants it for parts.

Mannyrock

Interesting comment since you know nothing about the actual model. 

This model is absolutely worth the repair.  I have a 2 rail one and it is a very high quality model.  I think of these like sports cars.  Yes, they are a little more prone to needing repairs at times, but when in proper working order they outperform everything else in the market.  I suspect sitting in the box for so long didn't help things.

As for product support, 3rd Rail has a very gifted technician but this is an older model.  I'd be curious to hear what you find out.  There are not parts available for this locomotive this far out from production from the manufacturer, but that doesn't mean there are not solutions to repair it.

Sorry you had this challenge Bob.  I wouldn't hesitate to operate the other ones.  Which steam locomotives are they?  With 3rd Rail steam I have two K4s, the M1a, the J1 that you have, as well as a three rail SP Mikado.  All great quality locomotives.  Most post late 90's 3rd Rail was designed to run and run well which is not common for the brass market.

Good luck!

Hard to imagine a new gear failed with just a short run time. NWSL gearboxes are not that expensive nor hard to install on engines where the wheelsets can easily be removed from the frame. Well worth looking at a little closer.

Pete

I sure wouldn't dump it. To nice a engine.  If you don't want it I'd take it off your hands.

I wouldn't dump it, but if you decide to (dump it, that is), can i get in the line with those willing to take it off your hands?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

That J1a has the tower drive and it might be worth checking it out a little closer. Maybe you got lucky and one of the universals slipped. More pics would be nice.

The 3rd Rail J1a is a classic and is absolutely worth fixing.

Norm I thought that was a definite possibility but when the locomotive started to act up I took it apart to check the driveline and found the couplings all tight going into the tower.

I then inspected the underside of the locomotive and removed the gear cover only to find brass particles throughout the newly installed  grease.

Thanks for your suggestion Norm.

Nice, shiny, bright yellow particles!  Wrong gear material.  My offer is to replace the Sunset gear, not to install NWSL.  I use NWSL exclusively on my own models, but these days it takes a bit more work to rig the gearbox case correctly.

Yes, the J1 by Sunset is probably the most accurate yet done.  The ones that came factory painted have good gears.

@taycotrains posted:

Last summer I came into a small collection of 3rd Rail brass items. Today with the snow I went  upstairs to the spare bedroom to get one out to try on my layout. This item was brand new and still factory packed. I removed it from the box and oiled it completely and installed a BCR. It has a old QSI system that just has bell and whistle and lousy sounds. I pulled a train with 8 PWC cars it went around my layout maybe 4 times and stopped dead. The gear on the drive axle stripped out immediately.

Can this gear be replaced ? Is it even available ? I have 6 other steam locomotives that are brand new in the box from this company. At this point I don’t want to even open them.

            Wow, those are beautiful engines !

On some 3rd Rails, one must be careful when pulling the lower gearbox cover for inspection and lube. The input shaft/worm gear can fall away from the axle if your engine is upside down in a cradle and one must carefully re-engage it. It's best to pull the shell if you're not familiar with the arrangement, that way you can see everything from top and bottom. I highly recommend turning things by hand before applying power. Later 3rd Rails put a grease port in the lower covers so you don't always have to take them off.

Bob, if you simply do not enjoy the repair part of the hobby then certainly I would sell it. If you do enjoy fixing items then sit back, relax and have fun searching for different ways to fix it. It keeps your mind fresh.

@romiller49 posted:

Bob, if you simply do not enjoy the repair part of the hobby then certainly I would sell it. If you do enjoy fixing items then sit back, relax and have fun searching for different ways to fix it. It keeps your mind fresh.

...a very wise response,Ron...👍

Mark in Oregon

@romiller49 posted:

Bob, if you simply do not enjoy the repair part of the hobby then certainly I would sell it. If you do enjoy fixing items then sit back, relax and have fun searching for different ways to fix it. It keeps your mind fresh.

I haven't repaired an engine in a long time (hands too shaky).  But no way am I going to sell them when they break, especially the hard to find engines like the 3rd Rail J1.  If you have the funds (and can still buy food), have it repaired.  There are some excellent artisans on this forum that will do a good job.

My comment stems from my impression that Tayco is not really a "repair" guy.  (I confess that I am not.)

So, if it is to be repaired, he will have to locate somebody, and pack and send it off, and then pay for the repair plus return shipping.

Given this, then does anybody have a reasonable estimate of what the total shipping and repair costs would be, and what the resale value of the loco would be after it is fully repaired?

Mannyrock

Shipping costs will be entirely dependent upon: Zip codes involved, shipper used, weight and size of packaging; none of which can I find in the above posts.

Repair costs cannot be estimated without knowing the labor rate of the technician nor seeing exactly what the problem is. This question reminds me of a time when I was supervising a new employee in an auto parts store. A customer came in and asked for a water pump for a Toyota, but knew neither the year, model , or any other pertinent info other than it was blue. The employee calmly and pleasantly responded, "I'm sorry sir, but we only have water pumps for red Toyotas today". Still laugh when I think of that.

Resale value would be what a willing seller would accept and a willing buyer would pay.

I just shipped a brass Mikado from California to New Jersey - 13 lbs, and $54 through Shippo, who seems to save me a third or more.

I cannot speak to the value of 3-rail locomotives, but if it were already two rail, I would probably hop on it for $500.  I have no idea what others charge for repair service, but when I work (not often any more) I am $75/hr.  In model train speak, that is about how long it takes me to change an axle gear, if the driver is off the locomotive.

Practically have to give it to me if I were considering machining ten driver tires.  But that's another subject.

The Sunset J1 prices vary, but they average around $700.  I got mine for $550 11 years ago at a swap meet in the west where PRR doesn't sell like it does in the east.

A decision has been made on the locomotive...it will be staying in my collection and it will not be getting repaired .

I reached out to my repairman and he politely declined the job not due to lack of skill but due to the lack of equipment to do a successful repair.

I also emailed member bob2 and graciously thanked him for his offer to take on the repair but at this time I’m going to hold off for now.