Frame spreading tool

I had experience with this tool and for me it was garbage and a waste of money. Tried to use it on a frame that was not aluminum (a steel, non magnetraction frame) and it bent and broke. Good luck getting your money back.

Roger

I didn't buy it yet. That's what I'm looking for though good bad and ugly with is thing. Also alternative methods to get that plate in the motor without having to take the wheels off.  

1How was the frame though? Was it ok? 2 Did the steel spreader break?

3 Where did you put it on the frame?

The parts dealer who sold it to me explained that the tool was made by one of his customers and was a gerry rigged thing (the tool in your Ebay photo). He also explained exactly where on the frame it had to be placed as it's very difficult to get it to "bite". I used it first on an old aluminum frame and I got it open, but the frame was bent after that. Then I used it on the steel frame an the tool (as I expected because of the stiffness of the steel in the frame) and the tool bent and then snapped as I tightened it. Buyer beware.

Roger

Forgot to mention.  I ended up replacing a roller on a friend's engine plate after the debacle with the tool and ran a wire from it up into the engine. I don't remember which engine it was and how exactly I attached the roller assembly, so I emailed my friend to see if he can get a photo of it for me as well as which engine it was.

Roger

That's what I figured. I really don't want to take the wheels off this thing if I don't have to.

It's a later 2025 motor that I "inherited" from a box of stuff that a buddy had given me.

As you can see it needs the plate put in, I have one it's just a matter of getting it in. 

I use a large pair of reversible snap ring pliers. Carefully setting my first pair of tabs, then walking down the frame setting the others.....its a little figidity, but the method works for me.....I barely spread it just enough to slip the tab by.

Sounds like a much better plan

That's not a bad idea, the plied tips don't snap with that pressure that's applied to them?

no sir...the pair I'm talking about does some fairly large and angry snap rings.....I don't think a little toy train is a match....

chuck the frame upside down in a bench vise, just catching the tippy top of the frame to give you a stable platform to work with. pre-set the collector plate on one side as best you can. then ever so slightly spread the edges with the pliers, walking from front to back as you go

That sounds like it would work. Ok thats one alternative anybody have anything else. I mean it's just going to be a spare motor for me. I just want to get it in order, so I can test it then have a spare. The reason I'm against taking wheels of is because I have no press. The last time I took off a set, it didn't work out well for me

harmonyards posted:

no sir...the pair I'm talking about does some fairly large and angry snap rings.....I don't think a little toy train is a match....

So a pair of lisle snap ring pliers from the local parts store might not cut it?

They do sell a reversible pliers that is not a snap ring pliers but has two small flat sides at the tip. It was about $24.00. This tool works great, wheels must be removed to spread the frame. On prewar trains I order the pickup not assembled so I can use the original Lionel badge. Plus being unsasembled I like to drill a small hole in the fiber board, pre tin the metal pickup on the back side opposite the hole then assemble it. A wire is soldered to the plate tru the hole. I like doing this for more of a positive connection than soldering to the rivet and relying on that mechanical connection. I did write about this a year or two ago with pictures of the tool, just do a search.

Since you have a spare motor, I think you have the opportunity to experiment.
As we discussed in another thread, I too have the frame spreader made by Hobby Horse, and sold by Train Tender. I have not had any luck with it.
Another tool that you might try are the Proto Lock Ring pliers (similar to the tool RonH describes)

I have not tried to use mine to spread any motor frames.
I do use a pair when I want to spread an E-unit apart extra wide.

IMHO, I don't think anything is going to spread the frame without at least loosening the wheels, if not completely removing them.
I think that if I wanted to replace a collector plate, I'd go one of two ways:

1 -remove wheels and grind away the upset (staking) that locks the motor side to the bottom spacer posts.

2 - cut the tabs off of one side of the collector plate, slot the frame by the tab slots, and bend the frame in to capture the plate.

Again, as I posted in the other thread, Modern era Lionel did #2 for a while, and I have successfully repaired runner grade engines this way.

  I like the slot idea! Bent frames mean opposing bearings might not align and than would reduce bearing support area in contact with the axle, wearing the bearing much faster.

  I wonder if you could make a dremel slice into the tab holes on center, one side of frame, bend the two halfs on each hole out, insert plate with tabs intact and bend the two sliver sections back to hold it in place...."tin plate assembly style".

  Going with the general idea, shortening the width of the plate tabs on one side, so they are smaller than the slot, might help it pass through the cut/bent new metal tabs from a slice. (After slicing & bending the metal, it might still be too narrow for the stock width tab to pass. The other side with remaining full tabs will prevent fwd,rev. shifting of the plate.) 

  I choose cutting up the center vs offset to a holes edge so each hole would have two pieces to bend incase one happens to snap off when bent back.

Annealing these "slivers" with some heat before each bend might be a good idea....?  I've never bent a frame to know how much work hardening they can take.    A heavy soldering gun is pretty good for that if you dont have a micro-torch.

C W Burfle posted:

Since you have a spare motor, I think you have the opportunity to experiment.
As we discussed in another thread, I too have the frame spreader made by Hobby Horse, and sold by Train Tender. I have not had any luck with it.
Another tool that you might try are the Proto Lock Ring pliers (similar to the tool RonH describes)

I have not tried to use mine to spread any motor frames.
I do use a pair when I want to spread an E-unit apart extra wide.

IMHO, I don't think anything is going to spread the frame without at least loosening the wheels, if not completely removing them.
I think that if I wanted to replace a collector plate, I'd go one of two ways:

1 -remove wheels and grind away the upset (staking) that locks the motor side to the bottom spacer posts.

2 - cut the tabs off of one side of the collector plate, slot the frame by the tab slots, and bend the frame in to capture the plate.

Again, as I posted in the other thread, Modern era Lionel did #2 for a while, and I have successfully repaired runner grade engines this way.

I was thinking the same as I was writing this. I was also curious about how well that tool works compared to other methods.