Fuses on a DCS System

Ironman, brand of a fuse is not important, BUT, since I have heard of a poor quality of some foreign-made fuses, I only buy Bussman ("Buss") or Littelfuse.  Their web sites contain some interesting info on blow times.  Avoid slow-blow fuses, which are intended for electric motor circuits.   Fast-blow, the most common types, have somewhat longer-than-expected blow times.  I understand there are super fast blow fuses available, but I recall them as being priced high.

Lower priced breakers, like fuses, operate on the theory of heat generated by the current.  There are electromagnetic breakers that blow at a set current, and there are electronic breakers.  If you get more than one derailment a week, you'll easily spend the cost of a breaker by buying fuses.

RJR, so all I have to do is plug in my Z1000 power brick to the AUX port on the TIU and it should all be good??  If so, what do I do about the handles on my Z4000??  Are they on full power or Off??  Thanks, Jeff

Jeff, yes all should be good.  If you have a Z4k receiver controlling your Z4000, you'll leave the handles off and control output voltage through the DCS remote.  Otherwise, set the handles to whatever runs your trains satisfactorily.  I would not push them up all the way; maybe 16-17 volts.

You have the part or model number of the Z4000 Receiver?  Thanks, Jeff

Can this receiver be used with the DCS Handheld Remote??  The one that came with my DCS TIU.  Or do I have to use the remote that comes with the Z4000 Commander receiver??  Thanks, Jeff

Jeff, it was 40-4002 for the receiver.  Also came with a handset 40-4003 in set 40-4001.  The handset not needed when a DCS remote is used.  It is no longer made, but may still be available.  It was a perfect piece of equipment.  You only need it if you are planning to run conventional locos, and want to control FIXED track voltage from the remote..

Any idea who has the 40-4002 receiver in stock? 

Our posts keep crossing.  Yes, the DCS remote will operate that receiver directly.  I don't even own the handset for the receiver.   In DCS, it gets set up as a "Z4K" track, as I recall.  Probably, Barry's book covers how to set it up.  Finding one is the hardest part.

No.  Look it up on MTH website, and click on the link that gives you dealers who have it in stock.

Why is it so hard to find one...how is the average person supposed to setup a DCS layout then?? 

There has got to be another way, without using the 40-4002 receiver. 

Jeff, it has been out of production for years, for its only use is to run conventional on FIXED tracks using the handheld remote control.  Absolutely not needed for a DCS system.  Remember, MTH hasn't made any conventional equipment for many years.  What specifically are you seeking to do?

When my son gave me a Z4000 and DCS set the week DCS was released, he knew I had no DCS locos--only conventional--and that I wanted to have walkaround control, so he also got the receiver.  Since I now have 26 DCS locos and very rarely run conventional, the only purpose it serves is to reset the Z4000 breaker from the remote after a derailment.

The receiver is not essential for DCS. You just use one or both of the two variable channels for conventional, if that is what you want, all set up through the DCS remote. Don't forget that paired wire works better for DCS. You didn't specify which your roll of #12 wire was.

Jeff, if you are also planning to run conventional, and only need 2 channels, use the VARIABLE channels.  When running DCS, scroll them to the desired voltage and run (or via the remote set them to act as FIXED), and for conventional, simply press the TRK button and scroll the track voltage.  If you've set them to fixed mode, scrolling switches them back to variable until TIU is powered down.  Again, post what you want to accomplish.

I'm inclined to think that "paired wire" is an urban legend.  If 2 conductors are close, there is a capacitance loss.  THe legend of a need for equal wire length was discarded years ago.

Lioneljeff posted:

Why is it so hard to find one...how is the average person supposed to setup a DCS layout then?? 

I sure don't know what you are trying to accomplish but, when I "power up" our layout, I first turn on the AC power to all the transformers, then I manually turn the handles up to 18 volts on each of the two Z4000 transformers (the 180 bricks automatically go to 18 volts), the layout is then ready to operate. THAT is all one really needs to do!

Jeff,

What Robert (RJR) said!  

In addition, The DCS Companion 3rd Edition has an extensive discussion of the Z4000 Remote Commander receiver and Z4K Tracks.

This nd a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition", available for purchase  from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Since I have 3 loops on my layout and only one Z4000, it is not possible to run all 3 independent loops off the Z4000.  I would need another transformer.  I have (8) Lionel prewar Z 250 watt Transformer(That's what I used before upgrading to the DCS System).  I have a Lionel Postwar KW 180 watt Transformer as well.  I would like to run loop #1 with only DCS PS2 Locomotive.  And loops #2 and #3 with conventional prewar Lionel locomotives, such as a 408E or 400E.  Now, that's what I would like to do.  Now, can it be done with what I have.  Thanks.

Sure you can.. Loop 1..KW with the 20 volt posts.   or  the  Z.( fuse protection a must.)

Loop 2    Z-4000 Var 1 set to var

Loop 3   Z-4000  Var 2  set to var

OK, now we have some more details.  Gregg is right on the money.   Note that you can run any loco anywhere on any loop.  With Gregg's suggestion, conventional on loop #1 would have to be controlled with the KW handle.

I don't know how many trains you run at a time on loops 2 & 3, but you could power both variables from one ZW4000 handle & use the other handle for loop #1.  I regularly have 3 trains running on a handle.  I would go Gregg's route. 

So, I can run my MTH PS2 locomotives on Loop #1 with the KW.  And my Prewar Lionel Locomotives on Loops #2 and #3 with the Left and Right handles of the Z4000 on Variable Input #1 for right handle and Variable Input #2 for left handle.  Sound correct??  I would set those two to Variable on the DCS remote, correct?  Now, would I be able to control the speed of all the 3 trains on each loop using the remote?  Or do I have to use the throttle on the KW and Z4000 move the trains??  I hope I can use the remote to do everything.  Thanks, Jeff

I would like to have the MTH PS2 Loco on Loop #1, my outer loop, because its my biggest loop obviously.  My outer loop will have my super 381 pulling my state cars on 72 inch radius track.  And I want my prewar locomotives on the loops #2 and #3.  Any change on how I should wire it up?  Or stick with what Gregg wrote?

Lioneljeff posted:

I would like to have the MTH PS2 Loco on Loop #1, my outer loop, because its my biggest loop obviously.  My outer loop will have my super 381 pulling my state cars on 72 inch radius track.  And I want my prewar locomotives on the loops #2 and #3.  Any change on how I should wire it up?  Or stick with what Gregg wrote?

Don't forget the other thread , I  posted a little more info this morning.  

I am looking at it right now....so I would have a power brick into the fixed In #1.  Then, my left and right handles on my Z4000 wired to the VAR In #1 and VAR In #2.  Then, set those thottles to full.  How will my KW wire up to the TIU?  Use the 20 Volt posts and connect them to which Input on the TIU??  Fixed In #2?? 

I thought you have to have a power source such as a power brick wired to Fixed In #1 at all times... You stated I have to use my other power brick and wire it up to VAR In #2.  Is this correct?

You do not have to have anything wired to FIXED 1, if you power the TIU itself through the AUX port, which you said above you'd do with a brick.

Connect the ZW to FIXED 1, AFTER phasing the KW & Z4000 to prevent shorts.

Lioneljeff posted:

I am looking at it right now....so I would have a power brick into the fixed In #1.  Then, my left and right handles on my Z4000 wired to the VAR In #1 and VAR In #2.  Then, set those thottles to full.  How will my KW wire up to the TIU?  Use the 20 Volt posts and connect them to which Input on the TIU??  Fixed In #2?? 

I don't think I said that, Read it again 

   I said to use one of the MTH bricks for an aux power supply for the TIU. , You mentioned you had 2

.One handle of the Z-4000 for fixed 1

The other Z-=4000  handle  for var 1

 The other brick for var 2 

there are other options if ypu want to get into the KW and Zs (fues protection required)

OK, got it!!  The power brick will be wired to the AUX ports.  The KW will be wired to Fixed In #1.  I seen a section on DCS Companion on how to phase the transformers, so I will do that.  So, only one power brick is used, correct? 

Lioneljeff posted:

OK, got it!!  The power brick will be wired to the AUX ports.  The KW will be wired to Fixed In #1.  I seen a section on DCS Companion on how to phase the transformers, so I will do that.  So, only one power brick is used, correct? 

Yes that should work out nicely,   I like this better.

KW for fixed 1 (20 volt posts) U & D I think but not really sure) with  10 amp fast blow fuse between  KW and fixed 1 in red.

However you may want to use a KW  handle if  want to run conventional as well on fixed 1.

Z-4000 for var 1&2  set to var mode.

 the brick for the tiu aux power supply.   Good luck and have fun.

I would like to use the KW for loop #1 the outer loop.  And the Z4000 Right handle for loop #2 and Left handle for loop #3.  The PS2 Loco's will be on loop #1 only and the Prewar Lionel loco's on Loop #2 and Loop #3.  This is what I want to do.  The KW..using the 20 Volt posts is wired to the TIU on the Fixed In #1, the Z4000 Right handle is connected to the TIU on the VAR In #1 and Left handle is connected to the TIU on the Fixed In #2, correct?  The bricks will be wired to the AUX and VAR In #2. correct anything that is wrong for me. 

If I am running just PS2 loco's on my KW wired to Fixed In #1.  What do I set the throttle to on my KW??  Full Throttle or no Power? Also, if I am running my prewar Lionel loco's off the Z4000 left and right handles, connected to VAR In #1 and #2. Set to VAR mode.  What do I set my throttles on my Z4000?  Full Throttle or no Power?  Since I am controlling the #2 and #3 loops off the Z4000 and using the remote to control the speed of the trains. 

Try again.... One Z-4000 handle for var 1

The other Z-4000 handle for Var 2

KW for fixed 1

 1 brick for tiu aux power supply .

Fixed 2 is spare nothing hooked to it

Lioneljeff posted:

If I am running just PS2 loco's on my KW wired to Fixed In #1.  What do I set the throttle to on my KW??  Full Throttle or no Power? Also, if I am running my prewar Lionel loco's off the Z4000 left and right handles, connected to VAR In #1 and #2. Set to VAR mode.  What do I set my throttles on my Z4000?  Full Throttle or no Power?  Since I am controlling the #2 and #3 loops off the Z4000 and using the remote to control the speed of the trains. 

Everything on full  , You vary the track voltage with the dcs remote on the var channels.

Fixed 1 is command so you use the ENG command.  Give it a try, you can change things (power supplies) once get it figured out but this should get you up & running.

I usually leave the handles up and turn the transformer switch on and off. The KW doesn't have a switch, so you can either run it with a power strip or turn the handle. I have all my transformers on one power strip plugged into a switched outlet next to the room light switch. When I'm done, I hit both switches on the way out.

Got it!!!  I will try this out tomorrow.  I am tired tonight!!  One last question tonight...Do I leave my KW throttle on full as well??  Thanks.

Oh yeah...one more thing...Do I need a 10 AMP fuse between my KW and TIU Fixed In #1??

Yes, a positive requirement for PW transformers

Jeff,

   You really need to get Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion Rev 3 Book, there are lots of different ways to set up your DCS remote control layout.  Running both the P2 and Conventional engines at the same time, not only the wiring is important, knowing how to use the hand held remote control is critical, to programming and running the layout.  You are going to need to educate yourself on the entire DCS, then start setting up your layout and testing it as you build.  Then come back here with exacting questions as you build your layout.  As I said before, Rich Melvin also put out an OGR Video Guide to DCS, that shows you visually, how to set up and run your 1st DCS layout.  The DCS Video Guide is a big help when 1st starting out, it shows you exactly what to do, and answers 90 % of all your questions and further it eliminates a lot of frustration.  All the questions you ask will be visually answered on the OGR Video Guide to DCS.  We can then help you fine tune your layout.

PCRR/Dave

So, I need just one in-line 10 amp fuse holder and a 10 amp fuse, between the D post of KW and the Red Terminal on the TIU's Fixed In #1.  Any type of fuses I need??  Would automotive mini blade ATM fuses work?  I have the 3rd edition of the DCS Companion on an eBook. 

Jeff,

   Glad you have the Book due a little reading, I also recommend using the Scott type 10 Amp resettable  Breakers,  especially with your KW Transformer when learning to use your layout.  Place the Breaker between the Transformer and the TIU on the Red Mid Track line.  That is all you need, using the fuse set up,  you are probably going to go thru more than a few fuses.  With the Resettable Breakers when something happens you simply return the handle of your KW to zero and push the breaker back down, to go on using your layout, no fuse to replace.

PCRR/Dave