Future of Lionel starter sets with transformer power?

Actually, there are only a handful of LionChief sets so far, most of the starter sets are still conventional.

That is my question.  Is it Lionel's goal to eventually have the LionChief replace the transformer in all of the starter sets.

Hi "towdog", I think that as electronics comes down in price remote control systems will become more and more the norm. But, that said there will always be people who like that good old transformer contrrol system.

Even at that it is my opinion that in all new sets the old "on-off-on" control is going the way of the carburetor in the family car.

Only Lionel can answer the question of what their marketing goals are.

The good news is that with the LionChief Plus, we can just throw a switch and run them off transformer control.

Why worry?
A couple of years ago, rumors that Lionel was dropping traditional 0 and 027 track.
Did they?

So long as people are buying transformers, Lionel will make them.

My concern is if the controller goes out on the "controller only" engines.  Can you get a new one?

Another question:  How robust will these new controller be over the life of the engine?

Very true. And there is this. Lionel probably would not have invested in the tooling for the ZW-L unless they expected a long sales future for it.

I heard the term "digital native" for the first time the other day: the generation born to the present world of remote-control everything and digital everywhere.  When they are our age, doubtless the transformer-controlled toy train will be gone - only an interesting historical curiosity you can buy of e-bay+ or the whatever, like tubes in tires, or tubes in radios, for that matter - "so that's how they did it before technology," etc. 

But that will be long after I am gone, and so for my foreseeable future, its conventional control all the way!

quote:

 When they are our age, doubtless the transformer-controlled toy train will be gone - only an interesting historical curiosity you can buy of e-bay+ or the whatever, like tubes in tires, or tubes in radios, for that matter - "so that's how they did it before technology," etc. 

I don't believe that is so.

There has been a resurgence in interest for film cameras and records. How do you account for that in the digital age?

I think there will be people interested in traditional control.

One reason I like traditional control is that it is an escape from all the digital stuff I have to deal with on a continuous basis.

I don't think you have seen the end of transformer sets.

However I think that Lionel have made a smart move with the Lionchief sets.

First the sets work on AC or DC. Suppling them with a universal DC power supply that will run from 120V or 230V. Thus your newbie is up and running without any power supply issues where ever they are in the world. Also with DC you totally avoid power frequency issues. Trust me this a very good thing.

You can see the advantages from a commercial point of view. 

1) Lighter set weight (for transport)

2) More compact than a conventional transformer (again for transport)

3) Worldwide compatibility. 

Nick

A current Charles Ro flyer has the remote control LionChief Plus engines on the same page as their three transformers. For one thing, you'll need a power supply if you want to run multiple locos on a loop.  I'm guessing the power supply provided with the LionChief sets won't power multiple locos.  You'll need a CW-80, ZW-L or something of the sort.

The remotes are said to be available for replacement and repair, but it's early days.  Cannot imagine that they won't need to replace a few of them over time due to loss

or damage.

The street prices in the Ro advertisement are pretty impressively low so I'm guessing the dealer margins are more generous than usual.  They've priced these so they underprice all of the other manufacturers for the steamers, and most for the diesels.  If the system works as planned, could be a major market force.

I fully agree.  The 'universal' power feature greatly extends the options for running the LionChief/LionChief+ locomotives. Even the most basic of these new engines can run almost anywhere now.

Were it not for this feature, I would never have been able to let my remote Thomas run wild on the Dutch Hornby club's layout last weekend. They were running on variable DC power. 

I think its a great idea. Since it is an IR remote-controlled train and each engine has its own address, It should be a great hit with the current generation of children. think of the all the possibilities. Instead of Signals running through the track(DCS/Legacy). Now your able to control the engine directly with the same funtions. The next logical step would be a hand held that can operate multiple engines at the same time. I know my son and daughter would injoy using this versus controling the speed through a transformer. This would definitely creat intrest in trains with the new generation. This should of been done years ago since the technology has been out there. The other thing it will force the standardization of control systems in the O Gauge Market.

Doug 

I doubt it.

The "standard" is two wires from a transformer to track.

Rusty

LionChief remotes are RF and not IR, FYI.

I have yet to find a remote that controls the universe...

Seriously, Lionel ain't gonna give up TMCC/Legacy/LionChief.

MTH ain't gonna give up DCS.

The rest of the world ain't gonna give up DCC.

Or conventional.

Rusty

I have yet to find a remote that controls the universe...

 

 

Rusty

If you find one, please let me know where to get one. Being Empress of the Universe is a tough job. You wouldn't believe how much running around that I have to do at present. 

Something to think about. Someone going to come up with a system that can be put in any conventional engine as a after market add on. Neither Lionel or MTH could stop it as they do not own the rights for the technology. The fact that there are RC controlers on the market now for plane, cars,and RC controled boats that are not manufacturer specific should tell you something. Certainly this will make it more enjoyable for both young and old alike. Yes this is a hobby but dont forget that we all started out with a starter sets. I guess some of us forget that we were children at one time.

There are RC based systems right now, I saw several at York a couple weeks ago.  However, they're a lot of work to install and not cheap, so I suspect the mainstream appeal is not there yet.

If someone came up with a $50 solution that had command control and at least basic sounds, it would probably be a good seller.

I certainly don't forget that I was a kid at one time. 

I can recall when my poor, little 2036 looked exactly like the couple of Burlington steam locomotive I could catch a glimpse of at the time and never was concerned about the size difference of various things.  Heck, even had an Aurora Models HO depot on my layout, my dad just put it on a box to raise it to the right height.  Didn't bother me in the least...

Somebody probably could (and may even be working on) make a low cost R/C system for starter sets, you never know. 

But it will also require the willingness of the purchaser to gut whatever electronics that previously exists in the models.  I certainly wouldn't expect Lionel or MTH be willing to allow functional access to their proprietary electronics and operating systems via a third party.  Lionel made that "mistake" once, I doubt they'd repeat it.  And of course, kiss any warranty goodby.

DCC is the most likely to become the standard.  MTH has DCC capability.  Lionel's added DCC to some of the American Flyer products.  However, both still use their proprietary electronics and no DCC 8-pin plug.

Rusty

MTH made a 'universal' conventional remote control set-up, the "IR Railking Remote System".

They came with starter sets (often with Loco-Sounds), but were also available  for purchase separately.

I have a couple, and it consists of a lock-on and remote...I think the MSRP was ~$60, and it seems to basically be a remote system that can vary track power for conventional running.

It works great running my conventional Williams, MTH in conventional & pretty sure it will run most any engine capable of conventional operation, but it's out of production now as far as I know.

Perhaps they did not market it well, or perhaps folks that run conventional don't really want to deal with remotes...it may be they prefer operating the stationary base, levers and buttons from the traditional 'fixture' of a transformer.

Robert

Also, doesn't Williams by Bachmann offer a 'universal' control system or is that just for accessories?

As others have mentioned, DCC seems to be the only close to universal or standardized control...and it seems Lionel & MTH have invested too heavily in their proprietary command systems to give them up any time soon.

It's pretty cool that Lionel listened to feedback on the first iteration of Lionchief, and added the 'switch' option for conventional running...I wonder if or how long they will continue to offer the first Lionchief version since it seems Lionchief Plus would cannibalize a lot of its sales.

Is it possible that the iPad apps planned by both Lionel and MTH become the common remote for both systems?

You wait till the starter sets come with the Ipad/Android control system and they don't even include the controller!

I purchased my son a little helicopter that comes with a little piece you plug into his Ipod touch, download the app and drive the helicopter.

These items won't be long term running purchases.  Meant to be played with now not in 20 years as the transformer sets could be.

It's just the way things go today.  No skyfalling, just change.

Jim