GG1 Legacy Upgrade 1.60 1.61 using a USB port

Alan:

I bought the black modules from Ro that brought me up to 1.6.  Do I need 1.61?  

Ben 

Alan,

I did the same as Ben. I have not received mine yet, just ordered them this morning. I was told 1.61 had to do with other items like sensor track - not GG1. Hope that is right.

I would prefer to purchase the modules also. Where can you get them, and how much do they cost ? I didn't buy my GG1 from Ro so I am not sure if he would sale me one. I guess you would need to purchase modules for the base and Cab 2.

After spending over $l,000 for the GG1 it's hard for me to understand why I should have to purchase modules or expend my vocabulary of swair words trying to download and install software in order to access features on a new engine.

The modules for each software upgrade should have been included with the engine.

 Thanks

Richard

Richard,

They were $17 each. $34 total and are found under legacy & train master command in the Lionel section on Ro's website. They are re writable for future expansion and i plan on doing that route from now on. But I am jumping from 1.3 to 1.6 and i still need to find a serial port to USB cable. I did not have any re writable modules either, so now I will have them. For about the same price for a blank re writable module you can get 1.6 already on them.

no you dont need CAB2 1.61 to run BASE 1.6. I did it because it was on the website.

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Richard Gonzales posted:

I would prefer to purchase the modules also. Where can you get them, and how much do they cost ? 

After spending over $l,000 for the GG1 it's hard for me to understand why I should have to purchase modules or expend my vocabulary of swair words trying to download and install software in order to access features on a new engine.

The modules for each software upgrade should have been included with the engine.

The modules are also available via Amazon.

I agree it's a bore having to buy them (and also a serial to USB connector) and go through the software update process but it's necessary to access the features of the newer Legacy models. I guess that Lionel assumes most Legacy users have already got these items and so decided not to include even the modules with any new products that require the latest update.

Once you get the upgrade to take it's relatively easy to use the system utility.  But getting a serial-USB adapter that actually works is a chore in itself. I get the impression that the software and indeed the hardware in the Legacy base and remote is based on fairly dated technology.

Don't overlook the free black modules.

Free Black Modules for Legacy

Hancock52 posted:

Richard Gonzales posted:

I would prefer to purchase the modules also. Where can you get them, and how much do they cost ? 

After spending over $l,000 for the GG1 it's hard for me to understand why I should have to purchase modules or expend my vocabulary of swair words trying to download and install software in order to access features on a new engine.

The modules for each software upgrade should have been included with the engine.

The modules are also available via Amazon.

I agree it's a bore having to buy them (and also a serial to USB connector) and go through the software update process but it's necessary to access the features of the newer Legacy models. I guess that Lionel assumes most Legacy users have already got these items and so decided not to include even the modules with any new products that require the latest update.

Once you get the upgrade to take it's relatively easy to use the system utility.  But getting a serial-USB adapter that actually works is a chore in itself. I get the impression that the software and indeed the hardware in the Legacy base and remote is based on fairly dated technology.

 

 HANCOCK52,

Great point about Legacy hardware and software. I jumped into Legacy at software version 1.52. I don't recall how long the Legacy system has been around, but I am willing to bet that USB technology was common place when Legacy was developed. Imagine how easy it would have been to install the Legacy software updates if the base and cab2 had USB ports. I am a computer user, not a hardware / software tech. With USB I could have downloaded the update to my computer, copied it to a flash drive and installed the updated Legacy software in a matter of minutes.

AS it is now, and if I understand correctly, I will need to download Lionel's install program (done it and have been reading the PDF), find a USB to Serial port adapter (someone mentioned having to cut the screws used to mount the serial end of the adaptor to the Legacy base), then jump through numerous hoops looking for COMM ports in order to get the update into the base and cab2... Nope, not me. I will be contacting RO!

USB flash drives now have HUUUUUUGE amounts of storage space, and are a dime a dozen and free on Sunday. I even gave them away at our company trade shows! The last one I purchased had half the storage space this computer I am using now has, and I could have purchased one even bigger.  

Lionel's use of a preparatory module for loading the Legacy system and its updates is like using a 5 1/2 inch floppy disk in the year 2017. 

A final point - I remember reading an article in OGR by Rich M. or maybe Jim B years ago about downloading MTH DCS software. I remember you had to install something called a "truck" on your computer in order to get the updates into you TIU. There were flow charts and all kind computereese in the article and it took too issue of OGR to cover the topic. Some things never change.

Take care,

Richard 

Richard Gonzales posted:

 HANCOCK52,

I jumped into Legacy at software version 1.52. I don't recall how long the Legacy system has been around, but I am willing to bet that USB technology was common place when Legacy was developed.

It was although probably there were millions of computers (mostly desktop) with serial port connections and no USB. So I guess that those 'legacy' users had to be provided for although the position now is very different.

Imagine how easy it would have been to install the Legacy software updates if the base and cab2 had USB ports . . .  AS it is now, and if I understand correctly, I will need to download Lionel's install program (done it and have been reading the PDF), find a USB to Serial port adapter (someone mentioned having to cut the screws used to mount the serial end of the adaptor to the Legacy base), then jump through numerous hoops looking for COMM ports in order to get the update into the base and cab2... Nope, not me. I will be contacting RO!

Yeah, it's time-consuming and things can easily go wrong. Not all versions of Windows support serial port adapters (there's been a thread on that elsewhere on the Forum) and finding that the adapter you've got won't work is a real bore. Of course if you are a Mac user you are out of luck unless you have emulation software. Lionel does recommend a particular brand/type of adapter - it's in the System Utility manual - but I can certainly understand why people don't want to get involved in sourcing such hardware without knowing for sure if it will work with their particular computer.

Lionel's use of a preparatory module for loading the Legacy system and its updates is like using a 5 1/2 inch floppy disk in the year 2017 . . .  Some things never change.

See my (slightly off topic) comment below.

I don't know enough about the newest Legacy boards to judge whether the technology is  really very retro or antiquated but I suspect it is behind the times and the earlier Legacy modular boards certainly were. I have often wondered whether there are system limitations that prevent O gauge command control trains having the same capability for sound and light features as DCC. However in the current climate I can't see that changing either.  That bugs me more than coping with system upgrades although I have already spent the time needed to be able to apply them.

When were these locomotives manufactured? Looks like 1995 technology...

Quite a contrast to the world of audio gear...

I recently updated the firmware on our Behringer X32 Digital Mixer...just downloaded the file from the Behringer website, popped it onto a USB stick, plugged it into the consoles USB port, turned on the console - a few minutes later, and I'm running the latest firmware.

Same for my recorder - get the new firmware file from TASCAM - put in on a SD card - and put in in the recorder and turn it on and select "yes" - done.

Im glad the OP took the time to really tease out what PITA this seems to be in the Train World.

Tom's Trains in New York has the black modules

Good Lord! You lost me at getting a USB serial cable... well guess I will just keep running my JLC version.

The Legacy 990 systems has the cables.

If you have a lionel Wifi unit you dont need the cable anymore  ..I  Connect to my base all the time. You can back it up on your laptop and make modules all day no issiues ..

After re-reading my initial post it was not my intent to help sell pre-loaded Black Modules. However, the process I described is cumbersome.

Maybe someone at Lionel will read this and install a USB cable within the Base unit and maybe USB adapters in the locomotives in order to eliminate the modules entirely.

Oh wait, they have WiFi!!

Alan and Team,

Can someone share the Lionel Link to get the v1.61 software - Next download the Service Module from Lionel's Website and the upgrades 1.6 for the base and 1.61 for the CAB2.

I cannot seem to find that link.

Kevin 

Hi Alan,

Do you have the Lionel part numbers for the modules for the CAB and base??

Thanks

The Legacy Command Set Lionel SKU is 6-14295. The latest software, 1.61 does not appear to be on the Lionel Site yet. 

If you have the WiFi unit - will it automatically download the latest software? I don't have that yet which is why I am asking.

Just look in the Legacy forum.

Legacy Updates and LSU

As for WiFi, nothing is automatic.

The wifi allows you to make the modules via the base using the LSU, without having to make a "serial" connection to the base.  You connect to the base via wifi instead.

Got it.

Here is the link to get the v1.61 Legacy Software update.  I though all you needed to do was click on the Lecagy Upgrade link or go to the product page - they have the older version published.

This takes you right to the page

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...95&productNumber=

 Thanks to Brittany at Lionel.

Kevin

Found these part numbers at Charles Rowe for the 1.6 Base and CAB modules but could not find them at the Lionel parts website even using 6-37125UB and 6-37125UC.

When I purchased my Texas Special Sounds Diner car a while back it came with two orange v1.6 modules, 1 for the base the other for the Cab2. I see these are v1.6 and v1.61. Is this the same?

Mike

If you download the V 1.61 software file inside the folder along with the update is a read me first note. It states that the only change the update makes is with the Senor car. Originally in V 1.6 after a sensor car was set with a TMCC locomotive and was sent over a sensor track the track would update all information to Legacy witch the older TMCC locomotives do not understand V 1.61 fixes this issue 

The instructions that came with the brand new GG1's say you need to upgrade to V1.61 to get access to all the features. Those features are visible in the Handheld so while the user manual indicates other feature and functionality the GG1 owners manual clearly points out the need to upgrade the base and hand held.

Just so you don't need to go hunt for the two files, the Legacy Control System and the Utility Guide it is attached below. Also note, on the Legacy Control System cover page it says V1.6 not V1.61. It is the newest manual as it has the LC WiFi instructions.

Kevin 

Mike, 

No they are not. 1.61 is an upgrade to 1.6 for a variety of items including the increase functionality on the remote for the new GG1 owners. Once installed, 1.61, then you load the Orange GG1 module you see the additional features show up. If you don't  have a GG1 then v1.6 is fine. I typically update my equipment when Lionel and MTH issue new releases just so I am up to date whether I need it or not.

K 

Rick,

Tom Trains in Ardsley, NY had a few blank black modules a few days ago. I got three a while back just so I did not have to keep making modules. I typically update our club units and members so it was just easier to make a remote and base module.

PSU1980 posted:

Rick,

Tom Trains in Ardsley, NY had a few blank black modules a few days ago. I got three a while back just so I did not have to keep making modules. I typically update our club units and members so it was just easier to make a remote and base module.

Kevin, thanks for the info; I will give them a call.

Thanks to all for the information.

Let me make sure I understand what I need to do:

Purchase a Legacy upgrade module with the version 1.6 upgrade.

Purchase a Legacy upgrade module with the version 1.61 upgrade.

Install version 1.6 in the legacy base

Install version 1.61 in Cab 2

Re insert the orange module that came with the GG1 into the Cab2 and I should be good to go.

Will I need to re insert the orange modules for all my other Legacy engines after the two Legacy software upgrades have been installed? I have  the NYC GP 7, the NYC Heavy Mikado, the UP H7, and the SP cab forward.

The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.

I appreciate all the information the forum members are providing about this topic.

Richard 

Just a reminder that the only reason you need to update to Legacy 1.61 is if you are using SensorCar pulled behind a TMCC locomotive. 1.61 does not add any functionality to the Vision GG1.

Thanks Railsounds!

The video released by Lionel when the GG1 started shipping only mentioned the requirement for the 1.6 upgrade.

I hope this clears up this issue. I would like to get the upgrade ordered and installed so I can get access all of the GG1's features.

Richard

RickM46 posted:

Found these part numbers at Charles Rowe for the 1.6 Base and CAB modules but could not find them at the Lionel parts website even using 6-37125UB and 6-37125UC.

L37125UB	LEGACY MODULE-1.6 UPGRADE BASE (UPGRADYOUR LEGACY BASE TO 1.	$16.95
L37125UC	LEGACY MODULE-1.6 UPGRADE CONT (UPGRADYOUR LEGACY CONTROLLER	$16.95

I would like to order the needed module or modules to upgrade my Legacy system to 1.6. Do I need to purchase both of these modules? After rereading this thread it sounds as if I do not need to install the 1.61 upgrade - correct? I would really like to get this taken care of tomorrow.

Help!

Thanks,

Richard

Richard, you need to upgrade BOTH the base and the CAB2 so, you need both modules.

Unless you have sensor cars, you do not need v1.61.

Updating the Legacy system is not as horrific as it sounds and only takes a couple of minutes.  If you buy these modules, you will now have black modules for future updates.  All you will need is serial cable capability or, better yet, the Lionel wifi module so you don't need any wire.  After you run your new GG1 for a while try downloading the update files and play with the LSU program.

AlanRail posted:

no you dont need CAB2 1.61 to run BASE 1.6. I did it because it was on the website.

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Where does the 5.25" floppy disk go or has this been upgraded to the 3.5" hard shell floppies?

Gerry

I barely recall reading that the character corruption bug on the remote was found but I don't recall if Lionel had released it in a cab update.  I still see it using 1.6.   I'm also experiencing the remote shutting off by surprise when I press a key on the remote intermittently.  Does 1.61 have any bug fixes that might resolve these problems?

timbernme posted:

I barely recall reading that the character corruption bug on the remote was found but I don't recall if Lionel had released it in a cab update.  I still see it using 1.6.   I'm also experiencing the remote shutting off by surprise when I press a key on the remote intermittently.  Does 1.61 have any bug fixes that might resolve these problems?

I suspect that's not a software issue or others would be seeing it.  I'd contact Lionel, sounds like your CAB2 needs fixing.

I was afraid of that. Thanks for your help GUNRUNNERJOHN!

I also have the character corruption issue on my remote and everything is upgraded to 1.6 currently.

The first digit of some of my 4 digit road numbers in the roster appear garbled.