@GG1 4877 posted:Having said that, there isn't the licensing issue required with GE like there is with Siemens.
Is the license issue even legal? I thought the dispute over licensing was settled in favor of model railroad manufacturers in the UP/MTH lawsuit.
Is there any idea how Siemens works with licensing? I'm curious if it's a 1 time purchase or a royalty on per model produced. I'd assume any O Scale manufacturer would have issues with the volume needed to offset a license.
Makes me wonder how MTH was able to produce the Taurus electric. It even has a "SIEMENS" logo on displayed on the frame right above the buffers like the prototype.
---PCJ
@P42Amtrak83 posted:Is the license issue even legal? I thought the dispute over licensing was settled in favor of model railroad manufacturers in the UP/MTH lawsuit.
Is there any idea how Siemens works with licensing? I'm curious if it's a 1 time purchase or a royalty on per model produced. I'd assume any O Scale manufacturer would have issues with the volume needed to offset a license.
I'm not a lawyer. I'm also not the Owner of a model train company, but I do not think Scott would risk a lawsuit find out. I am making a guess that reproducing a railroad's graphics is different from the rights to a locomotive, but copyright law is fairly clear on authorship. For example, as an architect in my full time work, I own the copyright to any design I produce. If someone reproduces my design or builds the same building without compensation to me, they are liable for damages under copyright infringement. A locomotive is the same. It appears that Siemens has chosen to enforce this, at least in the HO and N realm where Bachmann has usage rights.
Amtrak requires a no charge license to reproduce their graphics as does New Jersey Transit. Canadian Pacific also required a license when the GGD Canadian was done once they found out it was being offered. These did not include any royalties, but were merely ways for the copyright holders to protect their brand and image. Amtrak's brand manager reviewed the drawings for the Amfleet and Viewliner cars prior to them going into production. Canadian Pacific did the same.
The MTH issue isn't necessarily settled case law. Lionel for example gets a license for everything they produce unless it is in the public domain.
Regardless, 3rd Rail won't do a Siemens locomotive without the proper authorization to do so and neither will Lionel, or Atlas.
I have a farm and I buy the mesh wrap for my big round bales. The wrap comes out of Brazil and they were paying $2,500 to $2,900 per 40ft container. Prices skyrocketed and went to a bid system so they waited fairly close to the close and bid $12,000 a container for 15 containers...........Walmart stepped in and at the last minute bid $15,000 per container for the containers. My beef on the hoof prices are where they were 30 years ago but all my cost have at least doubled...........you wonder why the farmers are going bankrupt. How long can this go on?
P42 P42 P42
P42 …… what do you think folks ???
The E60 died a slow death from a lack of support - no, really a lack of reservations. The P42 would be a Great Substitute Amtrak offering !!! Unlike the E60 which is strictly an East coast locomotive, one can see the P42 EVERYWHERE that Amtrak runs !!!!! I don’t even do /collect / run Amtrak but I Love the P42 (done right like I know 3rd Rail - Sunset would do ) and if offered, I’d be in for one or two. (Love the “Wave” paint scheme) These locos span a lot of years so are quite appropriate for most Amtrak cars. A few paint scheme variants would undoubtedly add appeal.
EMAIL SCOTT if you’d like to see this offered !!!!!!!!!
Cheers !!!!!!
ONCE AGAIN A HIJACKED THREAD,,, this topic was started to obtain info on the shipping of the GGD AMTRAK Passenger cars. It soon morphed into requests and demands for other AMTRAK stuff from Scott.
Hope that Scott will continue the delivery updates.
@AlanRail posted:ONCE AGAIN A HIJACKED THREAD,,, this topic was started to obtain info on the shipping of the GGD AMTRAK Passenger cars. It soon morphed into requests and demands for other AMTRAK stuff from Scott.
Hope that Scott will continue the delivery updates.
I’ve excited to receive the various Amfleet cars. If more cars are ran in the future would be glad to order to complete gaps in the current order.
I wouldn't necessarily say the thread has been hi-jacked. Starting with the third post it has been a good discussion on Amtrak items that GGD / Sunset / 3rd Rail might be interested in producing. Since Scott reads this forum and we discuss projects fairly regularly, I can say that future Amtrak projects are on the horizon based on the discussion here but no announcements are imminent. There are a few other projects that need attention first before any future Amtrak announcements are made.
A second run of cars would be nice after the initial run arrives as I wouldn't mind a set of Phase VI Amfleets now too....
I think the MTH Premier P42 models are satisfactory for O 3-rail and would be a fine product for Sunset to offer, but I probably wouldn't buy since I have MTH versions. Models of the ACS-64 electrics would be in a completely different category - and probably price range.
MELGAR
@GG1 4877 posted:I wouldn't necessarily say the thread has been hi-jacked. Starting with the third post it has been a good discussion on Amtrak items that GGD / Sunset / 3rd Rail might be interested in producing. Since Scott reads this forum and we discuss projects fairly regularly, I can say that future Amtrak projects are on the horizon based on the discussion here but no announcements are imminent. There are a few other projects that need attention first before any future Amtrak announcements are made.
A second run of cars would be nice after the initial run arrives as I wouldn't mind a set of Phase VI Amfleets now too....
Thanks Jonathan!!! For sure I Understand projects in Queue take precedence!!!! I understand Scott is usually reluctant to cancel Any Project so I believe it was difficult - but he needed to cancel the E60 to a significant lack of reservations. I believe the P42 a worthy replacement that could find significant support. No one thought the 3rd Rail F3s would find support due to so many offerings by other companies. Well Run 2 is arriving !!! P42 has similar Potential. IMHO.
This IS all 3rd Rail / Sunset / GGD related. What better way to test an AMTRAK loco idea than in this GGD Thread !!!!! It REACHES those with a vested Interest !!! CHEERS !!!! 🙂
I'm still not convinced on a P42 getting 300-500 reservations as there are so many MTH ones on the market and it is a niche model for the two rail market. Locomotives typically reserve 60/40 2r to 3r these days. However, I have been proven wrong on more than a few occasions. 
@GG1 4877 posted:I wouldn't necessarily say the thread has been hi-jacked. Starting with the third post it has been a good discussion on Amtrak items that GGD / Sunset / 3rd Rail might be interested in producing. Since Scott reads this forum and we discuss projects fairly regularly, I can say that future Amtrak projects are on the horizon based on the discussion here but no announcements are imminent. There are a few other projects that need attention first before any future Amtrak announcements are made.
A second run of cars would be nice after the initial run arrives as I wouldn't mind a set of Phase VI Amfleets now too....
I'm hoping THIS delivery of scale Amfleet and Viewliners will be the turning point for making more GGD scale Amtrak cars. GGD's previous Amtrak offerings generated minimal enthusiasm at best and the order numbers showed it.
Next Amtrak announcements should be a no brainer for Scott as I sent him the links to various threads on this forum... Amtrak Superliner 1 WITH THE LOUNGE car, Amfleet 2's, and the SDP40F's!
Amfleet2 [foreground] vs Amfleet1
Superliner 2 [lounge] vs Superliner 1
@GG1 4877 posted:I'm still not convinced on a P42 getting 300-500 reservations as there are so many MTH ones on the market and it is a niche model for the two rail market. Locomotives typically reserve 60/40 2r to 3r these days. However, I have been proven wrong on more than a few occasions.
Perhaps down the road ….. maybe we get to see. 🤔
What kind of “linkage” drives reservations?Seeing these P42s for years, Amtrak trips / vacations with these being the power, coast-to-coast exposure/usage ??? Perhaps all the above.
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:I'm hoping THIS delivery of scale Amfleet and Viewliners will be the turning point for making more GGD scale Amtrak cars. GGD's previous Amtrak offerings generated minimal enthusiasm at best and the order numbers showed it.
Next Amtrak announcements should be a no brainer for Scott as I sent him the links to various threads on this forum... Amtrak Superliner 1 WITH THE LOUNGE car, Amfleet 2's, and the SDP40F's!
Amfleet2 [foreground] vs Amfleet1
Superliner 2 [lounge] vs Superliner 1
Good strategy !!! I get the feeling interest has picked up for Amtrak cars !!! It’s certainly has attracted my attention. The view liner cars that are arriving are Certainly Beautiful models !!!
I currently run a train of MTH Premier Superliner cars, which are about 18 inches long. My Atlas Zephyr cars in AMTRAK livery are full scale. I'm looking forward to receiving the 3rd Rail Viewliner and Amfleet cars. The MTH Superliners are OK, the train is consistent, but when Scott offers scale Superliners I will be in...
It looks like the EverLambent arrived into the port of Los Angeles on 8/13 at 8PM.
Looking forward to the delivery. It's almost time!
Got a message from our Freight Forwarder today: Vessel is due in Oakland Port on 8-20. I suspect the vessel is moored off the coast of LA while it waits for a spot to open to moor near SF Bay. We expected delivery by 8-27 if it gets off loaded on 8-20, and I that is still in the cards unless there is a special examination ordered by Home Land Security. We are chosen at random for this extra exams and have to pay $1,000 to $1,500 for the pleasure and wait another 7-10 days the inspection process to be complete. I have to tell you all, if there was another way to get models over here, or make them here, I would do it. This is for the birds.
We will keep customers informed as we get updated ourselves.
If you don't remember, models were finished and we were ready to ship on June 25th.
Cheers,
Scott Mann
We have movement towards Oakland!
@GG1 4877 posted:I wouldn't necessarily say the thread has been hi-jacked. Starting with the third post it has been a good discussion on Amtrak items that GGD / Sunset / 3rd Rail might be interested in producing. Since Scott reads this forum and we discuss projects fairly regularly, I can say that future Amtrak projects are on the horizon based on the discussion here but no announcements are imminent. There are a few other projects that need attention first before any future Amtrak announcements are made.
A second run of cars would be nice after the initial run arrives as I wouldn't mind a set of Phase VI Amfleets now too....
That sucks! Oh well, i could use the savings break....but phaseIV Amfleets and viewliners look tempting too!
The Eagle has landed!!!
The container ship has left Oakland Port, so our container should be delivered in 7 to 10 days. 
If you haven't sent your payment / payment info, now is the time.
Freight Office just told me they will deliver the container on Wednesday. We will process the F3s first and get them out, then the Amtrak cars next week.
Fingers crossed that the truck driver can pick up the container as planned on Wednesday.
Thanks for the update Scott, I am really looking forward to seeing my Boston and Maine F3
@sdmann posted:Freight Office just told me they will deliver the container on Wednesday. We will process the F3s first and get them out, then the Amtrak cars next week.
Fingers crossed that the truck driver can pick up the container as planned on Wednesday.
WOW !!! Better than expected !!!
Scott,
I don't know if you realize how much we appreciate these shipping updates, so I wanted to just reiterate our thankfulness on that front. When you're used to placing pre-orders with other manufacturers and it goes into a "black hole" cone of silence with very infrequent shipping/manufacturing updates, the updates that you've provided for this shipment are a breath of fresh air. THANK YOU!
Rafi
Yes, I know customer appreciate updates. In this world of instant gratification, I see what it takes to make that happen. With our small crew it takes time. So updates keep everyone relatively relaxed.
F3s are sorted and all paid orders have been pulled. We will release these to UPS on Friday, August 27th, our next work day.
Amtrak Cars will begin sorting on Friday. Cards will be charged over the weekend, Monday next week UPS tag printing, pulling orders and shipping again on Friday next week, September 3rd. It might take a few more work days to get all the Amtrak orders packed and shipped.
That's the plan.
I will say this again... Thank you to those that came forward with your order payments. It really helps us to keep the wheels turning here and at the factory.
I just received sample models of the Krauss Maffei and C&O Hudsons. The SP Daylights and VGN Gondolas are in production now. Because of the extreme container costs, we will hold these projects at the factory until they are all ready to ship, probably in Nov/Dec. EA/E1s are going into production right after the KMs. 20th Century cars after the SP Daylights. Milwaukee Electric design is in process. I suspect the 2nd run Milwaukee cars will fit in early next year.
Cheers, and keep well.
Those boxes are the Viewliners and Extra Amfleet cars, 8 to a box. Behind are the 5 car Amfleet sets, and finally the F3s. This container was brand new. The floor was hardwood and pristine. The cost, $8000 + $2000 delivery. The previous container in April was $3000 delivered. Someone is raking us over the coals.
I promised a Pizza lunch on Monday for all the hard work.
Thank you for the update Scott! It is great to have an insider sneak peek into what it takes to bring these items to market.
Very excited about the F3's and Amfleets. Great news and nuggets in the form of SP Daylight, 20th Century and Milwaukee Road. I know others will be thrilled with the news on the Maffei, Hudsons and other projects.
@sdmann posted:Yes, I know customer appreciate updates. In this world of instant gratification, I see what it takes to make that happen. With our small crew it takes time. So updates keep everyone relatively relaxed.
F3s are sorted and all paid orders have been pulled. We will release these to UPS on Friday, August 27th, our next work day.
Amtrak Cars will begin sorting on Friday. Cards will be charged over the weekend, Monday next week UPS tag printing, pulling orders and shipping again on Friday next week, September 3rd. It might take a few more work days to get all the Amtrak orders packed and shipped.That's the plan.
I will say this again... Thank you to those that came forward with your order payments. It really helps us to keep the wheels turning here and at the factory.
I just received sample models of the Krauss Maffei and C&O Hudsons. The SP Daylights and VGN Gondolas are in production now. Because of the extreme container costs, we will hold these projects at the factory until they are all ready to ship, probably in Nov/Dec. EA/E1s are going into production right after the KMs. 20th Century cars after the SP Daylights. Milwaukee Electric design is in process. I suspect the 2nd run Milwaukee cars will fit in early next year.
Cheers, and keep well.
Those boxes are the Viewliners and Extra Amfleet cars, 8 to a box. Behind are the 5 car Amfleet sets, and finally the F3s. This container was brand new. The floor was hardwood and pristine. The cost, $8000 + $2000 delivery. The previous container in April was $3000 delivered. Someone is raking us over the coals.
I promised a Pizza lunch on Monday for all the hard work.
This Mann looks Happy to finally take delivery of product !!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great update !!! Nice to see how the production schedule will shape up. Glad 20th Century production between Daylight and M.R. Olympian. I pass on the 20th C. so My wallet catches a break 🤣. (I can’t buy it all 😑)
Sounds like EA E1 reservations close Very Soon. Will they finish and ship with the Daylights and Gons ? I hope bunching the finished product saves shipping costs. The Milwaukee electric is a surprise to me going to design. Very little excitement surrounds it. I hope those with reservations for it get a bit “charged up” about it !!! 😉 Though not mentioned, I’ll assume the SD40-2 will be produced before the electric.
Cheers !!! 🙂👍
@vash44 posted:Thank you for the update Scott! It is great to have an insider sneak peek into what it takes to bring these items to market.
Very excited about the F3's and Amfleets. Great news and nuggets in the form of SP Daylight, 20th Century and Milwaukee Road. I know others will be thrilled with the news on the Maffei, Hudsons and other projects.
F3s Yes !!!!
I await my NDM “A” unit for the beginnings of an Mexican Aztec EAGLE consist - the continuation of the MP EAGLE. After that will be the NDM 10-6 sleeper offered in Scotts MP EAGLE Extra cars. I consider myself very lucky to have the opportunity to have a second chance to obtain the NDM F3. 👍
Cheers !!!
Scott,
How about posting a picture of the C&O Hudson sample. You can post a picture of the Krauss-Maffei too, but I didn't order that one .
Ken
Hot and smoky here in the Bay Area Today: We have all the 2R & 3R F3s Domestic Orders going out Today. A few stragglers in 2R need the ESU board installed, as the factory was short a few. Those will go out on Monday. International orders need to be inspected again, just to make sure, then they will go out late next week.
This weekend I will process the credit cards for the Amtrak cars (Then I can pay the factory the first 30% for the SP Daylights) and Monday we will sort all these cars and start matching up paid orders with inventory. This is going to take all of next week. I like to have all orders, holds, layaways etc. on the floor with paperwork on top to match up what the computer says we should have left. This is how we find our mistakes. I should have taken a class in college, "How to not make mistakes..." but I didn't. I think I took Solid State Physics instead.
The C&O Hudson samples arrived and they are spectacular. There was almost nothing to comment to the factory on. They really know how to execute these projects. The KMs arrived as well, same thing. I shot a couple photos on the test layout, which I will post under their perspective threads on this forum.
Have a nice weekend, and you'll be hearing from UPS.COM with your shipping label info next week. Please take a look and make sure Mr. Smith in AR, isn't being mailed to Mr. Smith in PA. You know what I mean...
Nice! I wish I was Able to afford the PRR F3 A-B-A set in 3 rail but the Amtrak order was huge and took presidence. I can't imagine the boxes that load will be arriving in. The UPS guy will probably curse me to H*** and beyond!
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:Nice! I wish I was Able to afford the PRR F3 A-B-A set in 3 rail but the Amtrak order was huge and took presidence. I can't imagine the boxes that load will be arriving in. The UPS guy will probably curse me to H*** and beyond!
It’ll be nice to see you post some pix after they arrive !!! 🙂
Still need to photograph my AB F3 set in PRR 2 rail from run 1. In the meantime patiently awaiting the sorting of the Amtrak cars. When this was pitched to Scott 6 years ago, no one knew it would take this long to get here, but no one also knew how big a car order this ultimately became. Over 1000 cars in total to sort.
Best of luck to Scott, Shani and the rest of his office team on what will be a busy week!
@GG1 4877 posted:Still need to photograph my AB F3 set in PRR 2 rail from run 1. In the meantime patiently awaiting the sorting of the Amtrak cars. When this was pitched to Scott 6 years ago, no one knew it would take this long to get here, but no one also knew how big a car order this ultimately became. Over 1000 cars in total to sort.
Best of luck to Scott, Shani and the rest of his office team on what will be a busy week!
If I remember, wasn’t it was kinda stalled as a plastic offering ? Finally Took off after changing to aluminum cars ? Over a 1000 cars is HUGE 😳. Definitely now need a 3rail Amtrak diesel. P42 “wave” version my preferred choice.
@TrainBub posted:If I remember, wasn’t it was kinda stalled as a plastic offering ? Finally Took off after changing to aluminum cars ? Over a 1000 cars is HUGE 😳. Definitely now need a 3rail Amtrak diesel. P42 “wave” version my preferred choice.
It was the change to aluminum body PLUS adding the Viewliner cars that made the order come through. IDK if Amfleet 1 alone would have made the project viable. Scott would have to breakdown how much of the 1000 car order was Amfleet1 or how much of the 1000 car order were Viewliners. I can yell you the majority of my huge order was Amfleet 1 and I did get a set of the Viewliners as well.
These Amfleets with their "gasket window inserts" , ball bearings, and lighted directional marker lights will blow any other O scale Amfleet out of the water! [ yea lets see dem assembled Weltz kits that have been hiding for all these decades!]
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:It was the change to aluminum body PLUS adding the Viewliner cars that made the order come through. IDK if Amfleet 1 alone would have made the project viable. Scott would have to breakdown how much of the 1000 car order was Amfleet1 or how much of the 1000 car order were Viewliners. I can yell you the majority of my huge order was Amfleet 1 and I did get a set of the Viewliners as well.
These Amfleets with their "gasket window inserts" , ball bearings, and lighted directional marker lights will blow any other O scale Amfleet out of the water! [ yea lets see dem assembled Weltz kits that have been hiding for all these decades!]
Yep you are right about the Viewliner ADDITION !!! Forgot about that. 😑
Can’t wait to see all the product !!!!
Shipping goes according to plan. F3s taken care of. My NDM F3 is on the way to St. Louis !!! 👍🙂
Next week Amtrak sorting begins. 😛
Watching the ship slowly make its way across the ocean has been fun . . . like watching paint dry!!
thanks Scott.
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