GGD El Capitan

 

I suggest that you contact Scott Mann directly at www.3rdrail.com 

Hot Water,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I did contact Scott Mann & he replied that he did not have plans to offer these cars separately at this time. He explained that most of his customers reserve full sets & he orders full sets from his manufacturer. Also ordering individual cars complicates boxes / packaging if I understood his reply correctly.

Naveen Rajan

Peoria, IL

Did you hear that giant THUD? 

 

That was the bottom dropping out of the K-Line El Captian secondary market. 

In the Email I got back from Scott yesterday he said "We are reading people's suggestions of cars offered, and things might change a little. We will keep you posted" So HotWater, wait a bit and see if things change

Not only is it exciting that Scott is going to make these, but to learn that he is listening to his customers suggestions is wonderful.  What a concept for a manufacturer to actually care about his customers!  We are so accustomed to the manufacturers thinking they know what's best for us, even if we aren't smart enough to realize it, and try to convince us to go along with their decisions.  What a breath of fresh air!

 

Art

There is some concern as to having enough unique name/numbers of cars for customers ordering 1 or 2 12 car sets. We will make as many as needed.

 

Scott Mann

I lived in Pasadena,CA in 1974-76 the El Cap/Super Chief went past my back fence every AM and PM. I could sit at the table for breakfast and dinner and watch them go by. In those years the FP-45 Red and Silver mixed with Blue/yellow F-45 was very common. F units were less frequent.

Scott,

 

Since there is no timeline on the GGD web site, any idea as to when these will be produced, late 2014, early, middle, or late 2015?

 

Just trying to gauge the timeline so as to plan accordingly and perhaps add the Amtrak set to the already pre-ordered AT&SF

 

Thanks,

Jason

 

 

Please don't ask me to wait, as I'm not a Santa Fe modeler anyway. I got my 12 car SP Daylight set already!

Interesting. I didn't know that the Santa Fe operated any passenger trains after Amtrak took over in 1972.

Here is a picture from 1973

http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/SWchief71.htm

OK, thanks, but that is an Amtrak train.

Another from 1972 showing Red/Sliver FP45,Blue/yellow F45 and 2 F7B units and a variety of Amtrak colors.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=443330&nseq=16

 

Certainly a beautiful photo, but again that is an Amtrak train from June 1972.

And lastly pre-Amtrak SF El Cap/SC FP45 Red/Silver and F45 B/Y

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=353842&nseq=60

Between the Super Chief and El Capitan sets from GGD, you can pretty much build several different trains by mixing and matching the cars.

Actually, Amtrak took over operations May 1, 1971 and although not operated by the Santa Fe, the Superchief and El Capitan were among those trains selected for the new service. The El Capitan name was dropped by Amtrak by early 1973, in 1974 the name Superchief was dropped and became the Southwest Chief. 

 

Joe

Yes, I remember it well. The reason that Amtrak had to stop using the train names "El Capitan" and "Super Chief" was that the President & CEO of Santa Fe, Mr. John Reed was so upset over the reduction of customer services on both trains,,,,,he refused to allow Amtrak to use this train names. Thus became the "Southwest Chief", and that name still stands today.

Amtrak leased the Santa Fe motive power until their SDP40Fs became available in 1973.  

 

The Combined SC El Cap was the first train to use the SDP40Fs.

 

The name was changed to Southwest Limited when ATSF revoked Amtrak's license to use the name Chief because of poor quality service.

 

Amtrak Southwest Chief with SDP40Fs

The proper consist for the El Capitan circa 1956 is as follows:

 

Baggage (storage mail)
Baggage
Baggage-Dormitory (transition car)
Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level Diner
Hi-Level Lounge
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Chair Car

GGD 8-car set needs the following to make a complete set:

1. An additional Step Down Chair Car

2. Three more 72-Seat Chair cars

 

Total MSRP: $1999.95 for the 8-car set

                     249.95 for the Step Down

                     749.85 for the additional 72-Seat Chair cars.

 

Total          $2,999.85

 

I ordered mine today after I received an email from Scott Mann saying that he would make the add-on coaches with different numbers than the ones in the 8-car set.  That was all I needed to hear, and the source IS reliable.  

 

I expect that the delivery will be sometime after 4/01/2014.  

 

Okay Jerry, I did my part, so who are Rocky and Monad?  

FYI: Delivery will probably be Late 2014, early 2015. 

 

There is so much interest, I am starting the design process on my next trip to the factory, next week. All is good. 

 

Thank you all for your input. 

 

Scott Mann

Oh, I am depressed.................................

 

Rocky:

 

 

The Monad:

 

 

Actually, I think the monad is only this part, looks like a Yin / Yang wheel to me:

 

 

When you buy this train, we will all have our Yin and Yang in balance. 

 

BTW, here is a technical question for you.  Did the 1956 El Capitan also use this RPO? 

 

 

Regards,

Jerry

Yes, that is it, the Budd 63 foot RPO.

 

Here it is in action (at 1/87th) on the El Cap.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u79clley71c

I would strongly recommend to Scott that GGD uses the Conquistador style drumhead/tail sign for their new Sante Fe Hi-Level series. Below is the offering from Tomar industries of this beautiful drumhead.

 

Maybe I can get my car bodies nickel plated to make them shiny like the real ones. I like shiny

Passenger Train Collector -

 

The Conquistador was used by Walthers when they released their HO El Capitan 2 years ago.  It was also the choice of Kato when they released their N Scale El Cap 5 years ago.

 

Below are the three options.  I like them all.  

 

Maybe a quick poll by the people that have placed orders is in order?

 

 

I like the red one the best, but the Conquistador is also great.  I think Lionel used the red on their non-hi-level cars.

 

Art

I like the conquistador myself but woudlnt mid any of them on either set I ordered

Hmmm, there's a drumhead on the rear end, I never would have noticed that.

 

The original GGD ESE was nickel plated.  Turns out the Chinese builders are not competent to do that.  There was a 70%+ rejection rate.  But I agree it does look better but, some folks think it look too yellow.

I rode both the TEXAS CHIEF and the SUPER CHIEF after Mr. Reed took away the premit to use the names.  The TEXAS became the LONE STAR, and the SUPER became the SOUTHWEST LIMITED.  Amtrak got permission to use the CHIEF name with the word SOUTHWEST sometime in the 1980's after Reed was no longer in charge of the ATSF.  Was this re-renaming during the Krebs era?

I think we need to take a poll about leaving the ugly Thumb Tacks off this run of cars. Scott told me he did that once and he had many complaints about them being left off. Are there really that many people who actually use those thumb tacks for switching passenger cars? They are 3RS type cars, not 027.

I think that is an excellent idea.  Very few people switch passenger cars.  The thumb tacks look bad and are a pain.

 

Art

So since the set NEEDS 2 stepdown cars, and doesnt NEED the RPO, wouldnt it make sense of offer the base set without the RPO and instead put in the 2nd stepdown car?

The Amtrak set shouldnt have an RPO in it at all, and if the ATSF version only ran 1 way with the RPO, it seems like its a far more optional car than the 2nd stepdown car for the front of the train.

Alternatively,if the RPO is left in the base set, then anyone who buys the Amtrak set is basically buying a 7 car set plus a $250 ticket to fantasyland. How about putting a 2nd regular baggage car in the Amtrak set instead?

Count me in... NO THUMBTACKS   on my 12-car set.  Thank You Very Much.

 

And... While we are at it NO MIRROR FINISH doors, IMHO that was the biggest mistake with the K-Line Al Caps.

I made that suggestion earlier in this thread about adding the 2nd step down car to the set instead of the RPO. I personally think its a better choice for the basic set.

Then which herald does Scott use for the rear car?

Get rid of the thumb tacks?

Even though I am not a Santa Fe modeler, I will definitely vote for NO MORE THUMBTACKS! I hate them, and have cut them off most of my claws, that haven't been replaced with Kadee couplers.

There's no doubt the El Capitan cars will look fantastic when they arrive, and with the details mentioned in the GGD announcement, I would also like to see the cars with:

 

• No Thumb tack
• Conquistador Drum Head
• Aluminum or Silver color diaphragm and buffer plate (Not Black)
• Prototypical tinted windows
• Appropriate grab irons
• Bright Aluminum color painted truck side frames The Santa Fe always painted their passenger truck frames bright aluminum.

Joe

 

All excellent suggestions.....especially silver diaphragms... NOT black

My vote is for sans tacks, and silver diaphragms. Actualy, I was supprised to see them on the GGD SC cars. To repeat the question, when does one switch passenger cars?

When does one switch passenger trains?  Depends on the train and era.  I believe that the westbound El Cap had no changes whilst the eastbound picked up a RPO in La Junta then swapped that RPO in KC for another one to Chicago.  It would be entirely possible to add cars between any 2 points for tour groups, conventions, a military movement.  I'm not sure if the El Cap was actually used for this, but it was possible.

 

To illustrate passenger switching, I'll use C&S 29 and 30, between Denver CO and Billings MT.  Typical passenger train - headend cars, coach(s) and Pullman(s).  One storage mail car ran 45 miles between Denver and Boulder in the evening and returned to Denver in the morning.  The diner ran between Casper and Billings. Baggage/express cars could be dropped or picked up at Ft Collins, Cheyenne and Casper

 

Adding passenger switching should increase your enjoyment in operating your model railroad.

 

ChipR