GGD El Capitan

Amtrak switches cars between the SUNSET and TEXAS EAGLE in San Antonio.

 

In the pre Amtrak era, it depended on the route and the train.  Before Amtrak, the UP would switch one huge passenger train from Chicago into three trains.  One part came off at Green River WY, and went to Portland OR.  Odgen UT divided the rest of the train into a LA and SF train.

 

MoPac had a like operation in NE Texas for the branches of the TEXAS EAGLE.  SCL did likewise for the east coast trains to/from FL.

 

Lesser mail and express trains picked up and dropped cars almost at every major point.

 

Part of the fun is reading and studying this stuff.

We were referring to model train passenger cars as far as the switching. I doubt many people, even in 3RS, actually switch out their passenger cars with uncouplers in the track. Hence the fact we are asking Scott Mann to leave the thumbtacks off the El Capitan cars. They are ugly, and most of us dont use them.

Yes, my question regarding switching was in reference to modeling. However, I appreciate the posts as to switching operations in real world situations. The logistics involved with passenger service, at least during it's zenith, never cease to amaze. I consider the orchestration of these three basic elements, transportation, hotel, and food & beverage service, all at a very high level, quite remarkable.

A big thumbs down to Thumbtacks. 

 

BTW does anybody know if this forum has a survey/poll function?  Others do, but I don't recall seeing any here.  I am 100% certain that GGD will not offer thumbtacks as an option.  The cost and record keeping would be prohibitive. 

 

Thanks. 

I don't know if Scott is getting more input than he wants, but he seems to really try hard to please his customers.  As I have said before, that is extremely refreshing and rare.

 

Thanks, Scott.

 

Art

I'd love Kadee's to come pre-installed on my 3R cars.   Forget the claw!

 

:-)

 

Amtrak also combines and separates the Seattle and Portland sections of the Empire Builder in Spokane.

All my passenger cars have dummy couplers.  Actually, so do most of my freight cars, since I personally do not care for switching practice.

 

But why not just snip the thumbtacks off if they bother you?  Does that hurt anything?  Maybe Scott should invent a threaded thumbtack, so you could remove or add whenever the mood strikes?

Even though we know that Amtrak switches some cars and engines, the better question is how of many of us modelers do or plan to.  I am of the opinion that very few of us swich passenger cars, I know that I don't.

 

Art

What would be nice is for the cars to come equipped with a Kadee mounting pad, and/or, a more "sophisticated" method of mounting a Kadee which will allow the full length passenger cars to negotiate a tighter radius than with a pure body mounted coupler. 

 

In HO, Walthers uses a pivoting system that works fairly well, and doesn't have the slop that some other pivoting coupler systems, like Bachmann HO cars have, but suck. 

 

Options would be nice for those who want the large knuckle, or Kadees.

 

Hot Water has a very reliable way to snip the thumb tacks using a special Snap-On side cutter.  The thumb tack portion on some of the couplers is extremely hard, and damages your average side cutter.   

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

Scott,

I am very tempted to purchase this 8 car set.  Have you considered the request made earlier in this thread by Laidoffsick?

 

I made that suggestion earlier in this thread about adding the 2nd step down car to the set instead of the RPO. I personally think its a better choice for the basic set.

I feel that for $2000.00 ($250.00/car) the base set of Hi-Level cars should have 6 Hi-Level cars.  This request makes the price per car more reasonable for the consumer (but perhaps less profitable for you?) and the train more functional.  The basic set should have two 68 seat step down chair cars.  The storage mail car is a logical choice for an add-on car.  Will you change the cars offered in the basic set?

 

You have deservedly developed the reputation of listening to your customers.  I hope you do so in this case. 

 

Thanks for considering this request. 

 

Scott

 

For what it's worth, I'm another one who is seriously considering ordering the 8 car set if you can make the change to include the 2nd step down car.

 

Thanks

John

Art:

 

Switching of cars from one set to another, though it is prototypical, not for me. NEVER.

The basic set should have two 68 seat step down chair cars.  The storage mail car is a logical choice for an add-on car.  Will you change the cars offered in the basic set?

 

A storage-mail add-on would a superb choice for Santa Fe modelers because there are so many other uses independent of the El Capitan. I'm always looking for additional head end equipment.  

 

Fast Mail anyone?

 

Awesome video!  Is it HO or 2-rail O gauge?

 

Art

It was one of the incredible O scale trains that could be run by the Denver Society of Model Railroaders.

I very much enjoyed watching the video. Thanks for sharing it with us.

The eight car set as announced, includes one step down car, therefore, no need for block and tackle.

tr18 -

 

The very first sentence of my post reads "In response to the people that are asking that GGD to swap the RPO for a Step-Down Chair Car I understand your point".

 

YES, GGD will make enough to fill all the orders and that is GREAT.  Walthers did not do that.  I am only listing how the other scales did it to show how lucky the O-Scale people are to have a company like GGD that will make as many as you need or want.  All they ask is that you let them know ahead of time and honor your order.

 

Nothing has changed.  I still understand your point.  There is probably a good chance that GGD will respond and offer the second step-down coach a part of the 8-car set.  BUT, if they don't you can still order one. 

Yes, but the one included has the drumhead and would go at the end of the train. Still needs a second one up front.

Okay, thanks for the response. Here's hoping!!

Well said tr18.  For me, $2,000.00 is a lot of money.  Perhaps my taste exceeds my income level and I am not the typical customer that Scott is targeting.  I can rationalize and scrape together the funds for the "8 car set".  But it would not be a "functional set" given the inability to connect the transition car with the rest of the train.  Is it silly that I expect that my pretend passengers/railroad employees be able to cross between the two cars?...yes, yes it is.  But for $2K indulge me!  

 

Scott intends to have the second step down chair car made, it is listed as a separate sale car.  Why not ask for a functional set of 8 cars?  It could only lead to more units produced and perhaps that would reduce Scott's cost per unit to manufacturer.....I don't know.  

 

If the numbers work out such that Scott will only include 5 Hi Level cars in the 8 car Hi-level set then maybe he would consider including only 1 72 seat Chair Car, that way people like me that can "only" afford $2,000.00 for toy trains will buy the set.

rdunniii,

Thank you very much for your detailed response.  I am not sure what your capacity is at GGD, but it is clear you understand how things work behind the scenes and I do appreciate you taking the time to shed light on the manufacturing process.  I hope you are right about the RPO.  If so, I will be a buyer.

 

thanks again

These cars are going to sell.... PERIOD. Whether a set or add-on cars. As Marker stated, the RPO can be used in various trains, what Santa Fe modeler wouldn't want one, even if only a separate sale.

 

The transition car alone will sell everyone they could make, there are many people looking for that car alone to complete "whatever" set they are building.

I don't see selling 1000, even 1200 cars a problem at all.

 

I know part of this hobby as a manufacturer is trying to predict what the market will buy. These cars are classics, and GGD will do a superb job with them. These cars will sell, period, especially in this scale. The Santa Fe passenger train is iconic for any O Gauger.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ELIMINATE THE RPO ENTIRELY! That's just wrong!

While I am sure the RPO car will/would have been very well done, on a cost per car basis, as a possible purchaser, I would be fine if it were eliminated.  As I understand it, and I am far from an expert, the RPO was only in the El Capitan train from La Junta to Chicago.  So from Colorado to California there was not an RPO. 

 

For me, the selling point for this set are the Hi-Level cars.  If given a choice between a set with 5 Hi-Levels or 6, then I will take the 6 and find an MTH RPO.  Either way the set should come with 2 step down cars...that is just my 2 cents.

Tee Hee.  No capacity, I just complained enough about a past project that Scott explained it all to me.  I only live 35 miles away so it's easy.

I thought the '51 Super Chief would be a big hit too.  Hit maybe, big, not so much. 

rdunniii:

 

What you have said makes a lot of sense. The mere fact that the Hi-Levels are being made is a big hit for our hobby. Most of your customers will adjust to what you come up with that works for you to facilitate the manufacturing process.

 

Thanks for listening when other manufacturers ignored this set.

Maybe there should be a set of just a couple of step downs and a couple of coaches.  These cars also ran on the TX CHIEF and SF CHIEF in the pre-Amtrak era.  These two trains did not get the hi-level lounges and diners.

 

Same in the Amtrak era.  The TX CHIEF/LONE STAR and the SUNSET only got the two types of coaches.

 

Modelers of these trains do not need the full EC trainset.

I am excited that this has been announced.  I would be most interested in the Amtrak version.  While there is not a good representation of the SDP40F to pull these cars, which would be ideal, I would likely use E8s to pull this train.  The cars would go well with the GGD PS coaches and sleepers to form a more complete train.

 

Jonathan,

 

May I strongly discourage you from using E8 units to pull that train, as that simply was NOT done, on the Santa Fe. The E8s couldn't handle the grades of Raton and Cajone passes.

There are so many good F units available already to pull this train that the motive power should be the least of our worries.  In my opinion this train will look good behind just about any passenger colored warbonnet, but it just seems like the F units are the best.  And lastly if you are willing to pay $2000 to $3000 for the cars, why stop short and have something pulling that is not of equal quality? 

 

Art

Before the SDP 40F's came, the SUNSET was powered by a UP E unit, th 3 B&O E's.  All A units!

 

But on the ATSF, FP45's or F units would work fine!

 

Jack,

 

Good call.  I forgot how hard two F40PHs labored to get the Southwest Chief over Raton when I was riding it in the early 90's. 

 

When were the El-Capitan cars converted to HEP?  Would I be correct to assume around 1977 when Superliner's began arriving for Amtrak?  My second choice would be F40PHs pulling this train.

 

 

Did the GE U28 and 30CG's ever get on the SC or EC?

Dominic, please,,,,,they are discussing the hi-level El Capitan on the Santa FE, i.e NOT the Sunset on the SP!!! I'll bet none of the Santa Fe modelers on here give a rats *** about what the SP, nor the UP did, in my opinion.

Once one them derailed at speed, out here in western Illinios, NO!

 

In my opinion, if you want to do Amtrak, then the best bet would be Santa Fe FP45 units, until the new SDP40F units were delivered in 1972. From memory, the F40PH units didn't come along until much later, maybe 1980s?  I don't recall when those EL Cap hi-level cars got up-graded to HEP.

The El Cap cars were never "upgraded" to HEP.  They were already sort of HEP anyway as they all had individual diesel generators providing power.  They did pass steam through to the older cars and may have used it for heating but not lighting or AC.

 

F3s and F7s, FP45s are appropriate for the combined EL SC.  Also U28/30CGs are appropriate for the Texas and SF Chief (at least once in a while).  But only Lionel has ever made an O Gauge/Scale what they called a U28CG but it is, well, pretty bad unless all you care about is the paint.

 

For Amtrak, the above are appropriate except the FP45s were used only emergencies for the first 2 years because ATSF made it very clear they were not part of the deal with Amtrak and were soon converted to freight only.  And the U boats not at all.

Oh. except for the lounge cars which got a complete rebuild/makeover for the Pacific Parlour cars for the Starlight.