GGD El Capitan

This was the early Amtrak SUNSET, which did use the ex ATSF high level coaches, both the regular and step up cars.  One of those early Amtrak rainbow train.

The set is coming out in Amtrak, so this train could be modeled.

The cars look the SAME to me.  Here is the order form from the GGD website.

The amtrak power options are few and far between...

Santa Fe Yellowbonnet F's would be the right choice for leased power. MTH did them as a DAP set. So unless you've already got them, probably not many out there to go around. If anyone else has done yellow bonnets with considerable detail, I'm not aware, so let me know.

No SDP40F exists in O scale. Buying a $2000+ set of cars and then running them with the Scaleking abominations seems like blasphemy (not to mention there's only one road number powered).

Using ATSF FP45s.... same basic thing. You're dealing with the Railking one.

F40s didnt show up until 1976.

Your only option then become E-8s, which MTH has did in dual headlight noses in 2010, and single headlight versions coming out soon. Ever done? Who knows... but its the really feasible option.

Alternatively, you use Warbonnet F-7s, as Im sure this was done at first, before Santa Fe painted the noses yellow.

Amtrak had a few F7s and FP7s (20 or so total), but no one's made Amtrak F's.

Lionel did make a set of F3's in the mid 1970's, as one of the first MPC's F"s.  But this is only one motor, and the body detail....er WHAT detail?

K-Line did do a F40PH. 

SDP40F?  There are more whooping cranes than these in O scale.

This train (SOUTHWEST LTD)for a while had a very unusual sleeping car.  It was a transcon run.  LAX-Kansas City, then on to New York Penn on the NATIONAL LTD.

ATSF painred the area of some of their passenger F's where the red was either yellow or blue after Amtrak started.  Was there a reason for this?  I think these are intering variations of these units!

Most of those F's came from the SP!

My understanding of the reasson is that the ATSF Managenebt did not want the public to think it was still the same level of service that passengers had received under the ATSF BANNER.

Bill:

Many thanks for posting the photos of the yellow nose F units. In our O-Gauge world, they are rare and beautiful. I sure would be in for a set of thees if I could find them.

This will be the first time I have ever bought anything from 3rd Rail, as I have placed an order for the El Cap.  However, I do have a motive power question.  Being that there is a sparse supply of locomotives that have been modeled which pulled the actual El Cap, could one use the ATSF 3751 to pull the El Cap on a layout?  I ask because, I do not have any F or P units, or for that matter anything else that is Santa Fe, except for the Legacy 3751.  I would like to add more ATSF Motive Power, but funds are limited, as I am in the process of moving, and beginning the planning stages for a new layout.

Steam locomotives where long gone off the Santa Fe when the El Capitan service was started.

Warbonnet F3s are just about the most common locomotives available on Ebay.  Lionel PW, Lionel new tooling, MTH, Williams, Marx and once an a while Atlas.

F7s are not as common but none the less are available.

No steam ever pulled the El Capitan except as a helper over Raton.  And that would not have been the high level cars but the 1938 version.

But, they are your trains, you can use a Big Boy if that's what you like.

James;

  The Hi Level El Capitan cars came on the property in 1955 and service started the next year.  The last northern (3780) was still in use until late summer of 1957.  Of course, by then 3780 was no longer in the passenger business...

Allan

I caved... ordered 10 amtrak cars.

This video has a very interesting consist make up in it.... 4 Hi-levels, then the baggage and dorm, then more high levels, followed by the sleepers/dome. I'd love to know the reason for the mid-train baggage car (guessing they added more cars en route?). The whole video is worth a watch, but if you must fast forward, stop at 2:28, and again at 4:20.

Enjoyed watching the video. Two observations about Amtrak from this video, they sure mixed up the passenger cars and they needed a wash rack.

I think I will shortly take the plunge on this set as well in Amtrak.  It would look great mixed in with my PS coaches and sleepers.  My challenge now is having a train so long that I won't have enough amps to actually run it.  Thanks for the video post!

LED lit cars draw a negligible amount (20 mA or so each)... so all the juice you got  goes into powering the motors/engine electronics. With smoke units off, it should be no problem to get these down the tracks with some single levels on the back.

I was running 14 cars on Sunday at my 3 Rail club, the Paradise and Pacific in Scottsdale, and was drawing 10 amps off the Z4000.  My problem was 5 of the cars were my old Williams 20" cars and my power was a pair of powered older Weaver E8s.  I ended up pulling most of the Williams cars and the E8s going for and even less prototypical pair of Williams SD90's and 10 cars.  That got me to 6.5 amps. 

This is probably not the right place to ask this question, but what is the preferred lubrication for the GGD car axle journals?  I don't get to run mine very often and finally ran them without lubrication for a while and the wheels are a bit stiff.  I need to get them to be more free rolling.  I had the issue with some of my K-line cars in the past as well.

I don't know if they are still available [Walthers] but LaBelle synthetic lubricants are among the best.

I currently prefer "EXCELLE LUBRICANTS". I previously used the LaBelle products, all the way back to my HO modeling days, but "XL" now has a greater variety of synthetic lubricants, and they have some nice REALLY HEAVY stuff that I now use on the side rods of my steam locomotive models. Their "ULTRA-LITE", "LIGHT", and "MEDIUM" oils are ideal for axle ends.

Check them out, you will be happy.

EXCELLE LUBRICANTS

11514 Smith Drive

Unit D

Huntly, IL 60142

Here is a link to the EXCELLE LUBRICANTS product line.

http://www.phoenixbottles.com/excelle.htm

I picked some up at a train show a few years ago and though I don't have a steam locomotives I can say it works great on diesels and rolling stock. 

Wow!  That's a lot of power!

Art

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the reply on the lubricant issue.  Great advice!  I didn't mean to spread the rails on this thread like an SDP40-F in a 7 degree curve. 

Now back on topic.  I like the look of Warbonnets pulling the "Southwest Limited".  Still would love to see and SDP40-F or perhaps bash a few MTH FP45's into something useable if I can find them to be the power on this train.

I just realized that they were pulling this Amtrak train with Santa Fe F units.  So it would be prototypical to use F units.

Art

First, the SDP40F has no "dash" in the model designation, i.e it should be SDP40F and not "SDP40-F (sic)".

Second, the SDP$)F units where NOT what cause those derailments and turned over rails! It was eventually proven to be that stupid, light weight Amtrak baggage car, which hadn't been properly maintained for years anyway.

Jack - thanks for the clarification.  The -F was a major typo on my part.  I should have known better. 

I forgot your prior commentary a few years back on the woes of the SDP40F and the baggage car issue.  As I seem to recall you mentioned that UP used some of their baggage cars for hauling materials other than baggage and had beefed up the springs in the trucks.  Am I recalling that somewhat correctly?

It had nothing to do with former UP baggage cars. The Amtrak "streamline" stainless steel baggage cars had not been properly maintained, plus they were WAY too light to have coupled directly behind the SDP40F units. With insufficient weight going into slight curves (about 2 degrees), the light weight baggage would simply rise up and derail, pulling the rear end of the rear SDP40F off the rails with it.

What is / are your source(s) for this statement, and to which derailments does it specifically refer ?

SZ

I am retired from EMD, and was involved on the extensive and lengthy investigation into the various derailments on BN the Family Lines, the Chessie System (what we know today as CSX). Poor track structure was also a factor, but the L over V was the main cause. When the L or Lateral forces, exceed the Vertical, or downward force, the result is, that wheel set leaves the rail head.

HW,

   The only SDP [ applicable ] derailment on former CSX trackage that comes immediately to mind is the 1/16/77 one on the L&N with the Autotrain/Floridian, I think it was.  Is that one you are referring to ?  As I recall the FRA/TSB report makes no mention of suspicion of the leading vehicle, which although a baggage car was I believe loaded with mail , as a cause, even partial,  of the derailment.

    In the same vein the FRA report into the 2/19/77 derailment of the National, which took place after the imposition of the "40 mph on curves sharper....." notice, seemed pretty definitive on the cause -- and the leading vehicle was a dh coach.

    You would appear to be saying that the TSB / FRA investigations of these accidents drew incorrect conclusions.  But I can understand EMD, or any manufacturer, being unwilling, for liability reasons, to not admit to any portion of blame for an accident.

SZ

Amtrak baggage cars:

1.  Amtrak did not keep good upkeep of them; I caould understand that.

2.  Amtrak Lightweight baggage cars?  Did Amtrak reduce weight in these cars after they bought them?  If not, they should have been forcing pre-Amtrak trains off the track with the owners own passenger power.

3.  A test that was not done I think:  Place tyhe baggage car on the back of the train.  If a regular passenger car would have derailed in the same manor with the SDP40F's as power, it would show clearly the SDP had issues.

4.  This was not an issue on ATSF and UP tracks.  I road on SDP powered trains at 100 MPH (I mile in 36 seconds).  Then again, the train ran over great trackwork!

I'm going to make 1 more request to Scott for this run of cars....besides the ones we have already asked for:

ON/OFF switch for the lights....please!

LOS, The GGD SC cars have this feature

All GGD passenger cars have had this since the beginning. 

The on/off light switch is a feature that have never really given any thought.  But, now that it is posted and apparently standard, I must say... I love it.   

PLEASE don't surprise us with Diner-Sounds and Lounge-Sounds.  

So I am officially on the fence on this one.  To Santa Fe or to Amtrak.  I picked up a Proto 2 Railking FP45 and with some work, it won't be that bad of a model.  I am thinking of picking up another one now and ordering the El Cap in Santa Fe. 

While I am a die-hard Amtrak modeler in three rail, I grew up riding on plenty of single level heritage cars and AmCans, while only riding on a few of the former El Cap cars on the Southwest Chief (the lounge or diner if I recall) and on the Cardinal which was all former El Cap cars (three as I recall). 

I would need to remove the Super Fleet style of lettering on the FP45s and replace it with the as delivered 1967 lettering, fix the fuel tank and the pilots and I would have a really unique train.  Since I will be running it on a western themed layout at the Paradise and Pacific in Scottsdale, AZ ....  

On the other hand .... Amtrak ..... Decisions, decisions!

Amtrak cars with SF power is possible.  Really happened on the SC/SWL before Amtrak got the SDP40F's.  (Seems like the SF had no issues with the SDP's;  I clocked them a few times at 100 mph while on Amtrak trains on ATSF track!)

So,

As of today there are only reservations for 3 sets of cars in Amtrak, not enough to make it happen so if you want Amtrak...

Otherwise, it will be ATSF only.