Guide for removing car bodies from New Lionel Union Pacific 21 Excursion Passenger Cars

OH GOOD, i saw the title and thought all your passengers died on the trip over

Matt Makens posted:

OH GOOD, i saw the title and thought all your passengers died on the trip over

thanks Matt, that is really funny.  Although, I will say, I did feel a little bit like a surgeon trying to perform the procedure to remove the bodies from the frame... 

Great info. Thank you!

I bet that tape would come off with Goo Gone!

I tried what you demonstrated on the UP diner and I could not get the shell off.  The glue runs from one end of the car to the other and on both sides.  I tried cutting the glue with an exacto knife and that didn't work either.  There isn't anything substantial enough to get hold of to pull the frame from the shell.  

I just kinda carefully  pulled the frame away from the body put a popsickle stick in between the body and frame. Moved to another spot and did the same. Just keep working along the car doing the same. Once you get the whole car just pull down on the frame and the and the tape should start letting loose.

Gweedo posted:

I just kinda carefully  pulled the frame away from the body put a popsickle stick in between the body and frame. Moved to another spot and did the same. Just keep working along the car doing the same. Once you get the whole car just pull down on the frame and the and the tape should start letting loose.

I don't have any problem getting the shell away from the frame until after  the trucks.  There isn't enough  flex in the shell to allow me to insert sticks near  the end of the car.  Where to you pull down on the frame?  I am afraid of pulling on the trucks because I don't want to break off the e clips.  The very end of my car acts like it is glued also and I can't get sticks in there.  I was able to remove the  Flag car shell only because a) there wasn't any glue and b) I opened an end door and pushed the frame down.  That didn't  work on the diner I have. 

Used a pliers by the screw hole and pulled down. Then pulled on the truck by hand. I know way to much sticky goop.

What do you mean pulled down? Do you mean pulled up on the frame? I had the same problem as JFC454. When you put the sticks in there, it seems to make to make it tighter between the shell & frame. Seems like if you had two people working on it, one spreading the body & the other pulling up, it might work. Going to get my buddy over next week to try that. Once off, a friend said Home Depot has a glue/adhesive remover that would take the sticky tape off & not damage the paint.  

Well holding the car upside down and pull on the frame with pliers by the screw hole and also pulled on the truck. I used popsickle sticks as they are thin and they will keep the frame away from the body. Once I had the sticks a along the sides started working on the ends pulling carefully on the frame. 

A "thousand" pieces of thin styrene sheet (doesn't stress the shell as much as the wood) ,  pull at the screw holes with needle nose pliers as suggested and the shell FINALLY came off. Do NOT want to have to do this again!  Tried to dissolve glue on tape with lighter fluid but it didn't even touch it.  Whatever adhesive they are using is strong.  At least I can now glue the loose windows and fix the door.  Thanks for your help.

Where did you get the styrene?

Goo Gone works for the adhesive.  I also had luck scoring the tape gently and peeling it up but you still have to clean up the Goo.

LIONEL posted:

Where did you get the styrene?

At a hobby shop.  It is just the sheet styrene modelers buy to make things.  

JFC454 posted:

A "thousand" pieces of thin styrene sheet (doesn't stress the shell as much as the wood) ,  pull at the screw holes with needle nose pliers as suggested and the shell FINALLY came off. Do NOT want to have to do this again!  Tried to dissolve glue on tape with lighter fluid but it didn't even touch it.  Whatever adhesive they are using is strong.  At least I can now glue the loose windows and fix the door.  Thanks for your help.

Good idea as it is thin & I would think there would be less pressure on the body, thus making it easier to get apart. Thanks

This will come in handy for me. I'm getting the UP station sounds diner friday.  I'll take it apart, add passengers.  Thanks 4 Posting.  

Oh man alright glad you got it fixed.

so glad i passed on these cars since i am not licensed as a "passenger car"  surgeon 

The issues with these cars are well documented.  The adhesive issue makes the above tutorial is a good one and worth the save.  Lionel should and my guess will take a hard look at the issue and will hopefully correct it in future runs with an adjusted tape width.  It should of never happened and I'm sure they know it.  How could they not. 

The shell removal while a pain in the butt is a small problem to overcome with folks like Dave sharing his technique.  I do like the styrene "wedges" to keep the shell stress down to a minimum.  A good solution to a disappointing problem.

It only just occurred to me because I haven’t put my Overland Diner back together yet but maybe the solution to preventing the tape from sticking again after you’ve put the shell back on is to run a piece of ordinary single sided tape along the base of the shell to stop the double sided tape sticking again to the frame. I tried to cut away the excess double sided tape but there is still an adhesive residue that does not dissolve easily, or at least not without risk of taking off some of the paint as well. 

Hancock52 posted:

It only just occurred to me because I haven’t put my Oveland Diner back together yet but maybe the solution to preventing the tape from sticking again after you’ve put the shell back on is to run a piece of ordinary single sided tape along the base of the shell to stop the double sided tape sticking again to the frame. I tried to cut away the excess double sided tape but there is still an adhesive residue that does not dissolve easily, or at least not without risk of taking off some of the paint as well. 

I used a Q-Tip and Goo Gone and was able to gently remove the adhesive from the frame line.  I used a tooth pick to gently scrape the goo from the body.  It was time consuming but worked.

Dave I got lucky.  I printed up your directions and went to the train table.  I first removed the 4 screws and very carefully pried up one end of the car up.  It came up easily and I pulled the floor up with my fingers.  Glued the windows back in and sealed the car back up.  Thanks Bruce

Just picked up my 4 pack of the UP and see that there are no lights in the car. Tried the switch And nothing. Could be a broken wire?

I see under the warranty policy that  transportation are not covered. 

I guess I will have to bite the bullet. The info put forth here seems sound but I am not skilled

thanks

Pat

Pat,  Do any of the cars light?  Are they Union Pacific "Excursion" or the just released "Challenger" cars?

I have been waiting since March, 2018 for parts for my NEW Lionel 21" passenger cars.  I have NOT received the parts yet, and I believe it is December 14, 2018.

Take the cars back to your dealer and get either another set, or your money back.  This was Lionel's instructions in February 2018 when people were having difficulty with the new run of 21" passenger cars.  They have no parts.  Some dealers who returned damaged cars have yet to receive a dealer credit from Lionel.

I have not found a lighting issue in the Penn Central (7), Southern Pacific (7), Union Pacific Excursion (7), Amtrak (7), CSX Executive (7) and two ten-car set of Pennsylvania Broadway Limited (20) cars that I detailed with Preiser people that I painted. All fifty-five cars interiors lit, though I had a bad tail light in the SP Observation. I have had finish issues and bad windows, and broken couplers, and damage the roof of my first Amtrak Dining Car.

My Union Pacific Challenger seven-car set just arrived and I will be detailing these cars if they work.

As a note of quality: I just received a Lionel Legacy C&O 2-6-6-2 #1522 that arrived broken with paint on the left walkway. Dean at Lionel sent it to me as a replacement for my Vision Line GG1 #4913 that service could not fix after three (3) attempts.  My crappy Vision Line was replaced with a broken C&O 2-6-6-2.  I emailed Dean on Monday and have not had a reply on Friday by 6:25 P.M. December 14, 2018.

My CSX F40PH was returned from its second trip for repair and now is going back a third time because the Volume Control does not raise or lower the sound.

My Allegheny #1604 went in for Lionel Service for a pinched wire short and trim issue. Now it jerks down the track above speed step "22",  I am waiting to hear from Dean.

Get your money back.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

P.S. I will check each of my seven new Union Pacific "Challenger" Passenger cars and list what I found.

My cars were returned to their boxes until I get the couplers updated to KADEES. The current couplers are comical at best... 

Pat Byrne posted:

Just picked up my 4 pack of the UP and see that there are no lights in the car. Tried the switch And nothing. Could be a broken wire?

Which car or cars? Because on most one of the main power wires from the trucks is positioned close to a body mount screw it can be pinched/screwed through in such a way as to cause a short. This is a factory assembly issue, of which these cars had many.

But the pinched wire was a problem even with the first run 21” ABS cars; my Texas Special diner was DOA because of this. Those cars were easy to disassemble because they did not have all the excess tape used in the later ones.

Opening the UP Excursion Cars is no picnic but with patience it can be done. But if you are not confident about it, send the car in.

Pat,  I checked two cars so far: The American Flyer Pullman and the 5040 Coach.  Both cars gradually lit after two minutes at 16-17 volts.  Are you running with a Legacy Remote or Conventional transformer?

American Flyer Pullman:  It has seven wall edges showing through windows on one side of the car and five wall edges showing through windows on the other.  It looks like I will again be cutting and re-working a Lionel 21" Interior.  This is NOT a properly aligned car.

5040 Coach:  This car looks fine though seats do not line up exactly with windows.  Three is a film dust on the windows and plastic debris electrostatically stuck to windows.  I am glad it is not paint.  

Again, both cars light.  The paint looks good.  The alignment of the interior of the American Flyer Pullman to the windows stinks.

I will go back and look at the Observation and Baggage Car next.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Lionel Union Pacific Challenger 4-car Pack has damage to individual packaging shells and Observation.

Union Pacific Challenger Observation:  A small square window has moved to the other end inside the car.  It is now in the front of the car on the opposite side. Two Lower Lounge windows are pushed in and scratched.  This car will be going back to Nicholas Smith Trains for a replacement.  The plastic packaging shells are damaged so the white pressure pads don't hold the car securely.  There is a hole where the pad should rest.

The sad things is that this is not a surprise, but more of the normal condition I receive new Lionel products in.--- broken.

I've included a picture of the new C&O 2-6-6-2 #1522 that Dean at Lionel sent me as a replacement for my Vision Line GG! #4913 that went back to Lionel three times and they could not fix the VL GG1.  The replacement engine, a C&O 2-6-6-2 #1522 arrived broken with white paint on the top left walkway.

There are words for this situation that I cannot speak, but you can probably imagine.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Lionel Union Pacific 4-Pack has some damage to shipping shells , Observation has loose windows and there is rattling in the Baggage car.

Union Pacific Challenger Baggage Car:  The car lights nicely.  There is a rattle of plastic and the deeper rolling sound of a loose screw inside the car.  I am in the middle of a remodeling project and not ready to open these cars to detail them yet.  I will need to get a replacement for the Observation.  The baggage gets a weathered floor and freight inside the window area.  The doors on this car do not open.

I put the baggage at the front of my ten-car Broadway Limited and my Western Allegheny pulled the eleven 21" cars with ease on level track with s-curves.  I love the new H-10 engines: Pennsylvania Lines and Western Allegheny with the Lines West Tenders. They are the best engines I have purchased in the last two years.  Sorry Niagara.

Sincerely, John Rowlen