Has Lionel Cancelled the FlyerChief Berkshire Complete Train Sets Previewed in the 2014 American Flyer Catalog?

Yes. 

Hopefully MTH plans to do a RTR set in S. 

Ben

I feel bad for the dealers that were taking preorders and people who ordered them.  Now both will have to decide if the deposit will be applied to the new Berk.  With no price listed it was all about a guess.

The Passenger Bershire had the same contents (if I am correct) as the Polar Express set (Same number and type of cars and content).  As such people like myself felt confident that we knew the price.  It is a shame, as per my dealer, he had taken pre-orders for quite a few of these sets and was upset that Lionel cancelled.

 

--Rocco--

Funny, I just got a letter from Charles Ro officially informing me of the cancellation of both the C&O and NKP sets, both of which I ordered.  I too thought that the PE price was in the ballpark of what the other sets would be.  Were the pre-order numbers that low?  Too bad, since both sets would have made a nice addition to my fleet.  The rolling stock looked quite nice.  I wonder if Lionel will now add those cars as separate sale items in the future?  It would make a good looking consist. 

I don't see how the two sets could've been preordered, there were no stock numbers and therefore no way to enter them in Lionel's ordering system.  When I tried to order the NKP set from my LHS, the owner told me there's no way when it's not in the system.

 

It seems dealers that took "preorders" were only maintaining an order list until the day the sets could be entered into the system.

 

Rusty

Which brings up the question as to why this was even put into the catalog in the first place? Lionel, in particular, has a history of things like this, along with cancelled items, even after SKU numbers are announced. Doesn't do anything to build my confidence in their "build-to-order" program.

 

Bill in FtL

I think you've hit the nail right on the head,Bill. It seems that Lionel is making every effort to sink their own S scale involvement. What can they be thinking?

 

Mark in Oregon

Maybe they were pre-pre-orders????   Seriously, you're probably right.  Just a feeler to see if there was any interest.  But judging from the posts here and other sites, it seems like there was enough interest.  Who knows what really goes on in the minds in Lionelville?  I hope you're wrong, Bill.

You guys need to understand that this happens in Lionel's O stuff too.  From what I understand things are posted and then cancelled there all the time for O.  Who knows why the sets were cancelled.  People seem to be assuming there wasn't enough preordered.  How can that be since there was no official way to preorder them.

 

My guess is something else changed in the manufacturing/cost of production end.  Or they thought producing 4 Berks was better than 2 sets.  We will probably never know for sure.

 

Remember Lionel is a private business run by business men who must make a profit for owners.  They are not hobbiests.  There bottom line is not public.  We are not share holders so we can only decide if we want what they produce.

 

It seems we do. 

My guess it's more due to the recent management change.  Lionel CEO's seem to last for 3-4 years and every time there's a new CEO, the windsock changes direction.

 

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill wrote "Remember Lionel is a private business run by business men who must make a profit for owners.  They are not hobbiests.  There bottom line is not public.  We are not share holders so we can only decide if we want what they produce."

 

Very true.  A real business that wants to make a profit needs to be customer focused.  Cancelling items that the customer wants in favor of more costly items is not in Lionel's best interest.  It tends to drive business away.  The Polar Express Set was listed at $399.99 with a Bershire Engine, 3 Passenger cars, a transformer with Lionel Controller and an Oval of track.

 

The C&O Bershire set included a Bershire Engine, 3 Passenger cars, a transformer with Lionel Controller and an Oval of track.  One expected it to sell at $399.99 or less as it would not require a license fee to be paid for the Polar Express name. 

 

Instead they cancel the set and issue the C&O Berckshire Engine by itself for a list price of $359.99.  did they really think that this would not annoy their customers?  For $40 more I would not want 3 passenger cars and the Oval of Fastrack?

 

I am sorry but I agree with the others who have posted that Lionel is doing everything thay can to destroy the American Flyer line of trains by driving their customers away.  If they want to grow their business and make larger profits they should be listening to what their customers want to buy and start making those products, not dangling Berckshire sets for future sale and then replacing them with a worse deal. 

 

--Rocco-- 

It remains to be seen if the separate sale Berkshires will have more detail, such as free standing handrails.  Catalog illustrations have been very misleading over the years, so I would not rule out a more detailed engine. 

 

It would not be unreasonable for a business person to suspect that selling what is essentially a starter set might not bring in as much money (because with a starter set you are counting on bringing in newcomers-which S does not have a great track record on) rather than selling a more detailed engine to those already "on board" in S. 

 

I think they may have gauged that given the general lack of visibility of S and the few outlets that display and sell it, that it was foolish to market to newcomers to trains, in no small part because they would be competing with themselves-as they are trying to get newcomers to buy their O gauge product.

 

You can argue that S may not survive if newcomers are not brought in, but maybe the "powers that be" have decided that S is going to die out with the "baby boomers" and they should make what money there is to be made while we still are alive and have some disposable income. 

 

Little Tommy 

Except there's already a pilot model out in the form of the PE Berk that's been making the rounds.  I would be extremely surprised if the other Berks will have more added detail other than a normal NKP pilot.

 

Unless the boys from Circle L bring a new sample to York to wave around, we'll see in October (maybe...)

 

Rusty

The catalog says "Flickering Firebox in cab" for the new Berks.  It does not say that for the PE.  The new Berks also have in the catalog description "User activated announcements vary when trains is stationary or in motion", which is not in the PE description.  So there are at least these differences in the descriptions.

Bill,

 

I hope there are difference that make this price vs. the previously list in the 2014 catalog set worthwhile.  If that is the case and I was Lionel I would make sure to clearly stress that fact in the 2015 catalog or at least get the enhancement details to clubs and S groups to promote that additional information.  Silence makes me believe the worst.  Good Marketing may be needed here.

 

--Rocco--