Help! Finished! E-Unit Repair & Shell Cleaning (Chessie GP20)

Since the lettering is painted on these and not decals (I have the same one), you should be able to gently wash the shell in warm water with a little mild detergent.  Just don't scrub too hard or use anything abrasive.

When I got mine, it ran well but somewhat noisy.  I disassembled the power truck, cleaned and lubed everything, and adjusted the set-screw on the top armature bearing.  It now runs like brand new.  I think (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can try some tuner cleaner on the E-unit, that may free it up. 

I have used 409 spray cleaner on my trains for years. Take the shell off, spray it with 409 and gently massage it with a soft parts brush and on deep or difficult places use a soft tooth brush. Then rinse it in room temperature to slightly warm water. Blot it dry with a terry wash cloth or soft paper towel like Bounty and if you have a compressor, blow out the tight spots using no more about 20 to 30 psig. This method works on almost every train I have cleaned (thousands). There are a few such as some of the old rubber stamped tank cars where the graphics will bleed. The trick on those is to test carefully. Usually you must use just cool water and no soap on them. If you see any sign of graphics bleed, just immediately blot it with the dry cloth. If you use the 409 and ever see a graphics bleed, immediately quench it with cold water and blot it. Notice I always say blot -- not rub.  The other watch out is with decals. They hold up to the washing and blotting, but the compressed air will damage them. So always blow carefully away from decals and never towards them.

Now the e-unit. I use CRC electronic parts cleaner when I want clean and dry and tuner cleaner when I want a lube. I then always blow it  nearly dry with the compressed air. Remove the e unit and do this over a sink. In general, a mechanical e-unit likes to be clean and dry in the solenoid part (the part that moves up and down) for any lubricant residual will attract dust and cause sticking over time. It is ok to leave very little lubricant on the wipers, but I usually leave them clean for the same reasons. Spray the drum and wiper area and while holding the e-unit vertical as mounted in the train, just lift the cog lever up and down about 20 times with your finger, causing the drum to rotate and wipe clean. Then blow it dry.

If the drum gets real tarnished, you can carefully clean it with a Dremel tool and stainless brush. This takes practice and patience to avoid damage. You only clean the areas of the brass contacts and you can only access a small area at a time -- then reposition the drum and tool. I do it under a magnifying lamp which allows precision and also give some eye protection. When finished, spray clean it as above and blow it dry. I have done hundreds with 100 % success in my repair business and on my own trains.

You did not ask, but this is a good time to clean the frame and use a light oil such as Marvel Mystery oil to protect from future rust. If it is chemically treated, you can brush off the rust (with the Dremel) and use a bluing pen to refinish it. Follow the bluing with a drop of the oil and a light buffing with a soft cloth, paper towel or Q tip. It will look like original when done right.

IMHO, 409 cleaner may be a little harsh for toy trains. I typically use either Murphy's oil soap or a bit of dishwashing soap (hand washing, not machine washing). I use an old, soft chip brush. Sometimes I carefully use a toothbrush for stubborn spots.

Afterwards, I shake the excess water off, blot (never rub) the shell, and leave it in front of a fan to dry.

I like to use CRC 2-26 as a metal protectant. Probably really doesn't matter, but it is rated as being food safe, so I am not concerned about getting a little on my skin when the train is handled.

Thanks guys.  I actually thought about using dish soap.  I'll definitely have to give some of these a try.  

Bill,

As for cleaning the frame, I considered just cleaning it and repainting it, would your method be better?  Also, when I get this thing apart, I may have more questions about cleaning the e-unit

Mike,

Once I get it apart, I'll have a look to see what condition the e-unit is in.  Hopefully thats all it would take.

C.W. 

Are you saying use CRC 2-26 for the frame?

Thanks,
Mike 

I have the same engine, recently taken out of storage.  Remove the shell and clean it with a mild soap and water solution, with a very soft rag.  Personally, I wouldn't use any cleaners.  As far as the frame goes, I wipe mine down with a light oil and then dry it with a lint free rag.  There is very little else you can do -- these frames will show some minor surface corrosion. The rest is all maintenance -- clean, lubricate, and oil as necessary.  As far as adjusting the armature, it may be necessary but bear in mind that the E units on these are pretty robust, like most E units, but my experience is that they were noisy -- they make a distinctive whining noise.  It gets annoying to me, and one of the things I will eventually do is perhaps install a newer electronic reversing unit because it is a nice running train otherwise. 

Over the years Lionel went back and forth between painting and chemically blackening their frames. Your engines, pictured above, appear to have blackened frames.

They are your trains to do with as you please. Were they mine, I would prefer to stay with the blackened finish.

If they are rust free, or only have very light rust in a spot here and there, I would remove the shell, and wipe down the frames with a rag dampened with CRC 2-26. (Sometimes I apply the liquid with a few Qtips) Then I would wipe away any excess with a clean dry rag. (Hint: Rags seem to work better when they are washed and dried without any fabric softener or drier sheets). Often this will clean the rust away, or at least make it much less noticeable.

If you use a wire wheel or emery paper to remove rust, you will be left with bare metal. The chemical blackeners with which I am familiar will turn the bare areas black, but the finish/ sheen will not match, and in my opinion, often looks worse than the rust did.

When I run into crusty rust that looks almost like a scab, often I will carefully scrape it away with an Xacto chisel blade (#18), followed by some fine emery cloth wetted with light oil (at least 320 grit). Then the oil must be completely cleaned away and blackening is applied with a Qtip. But, as I just wrote, the match will not be perfect.

quote:

As far as adjusting the armature, it may be necessary but bear in mind that the E units on these are pretty robust, like most E units, but my experience is that they were noisy -- they make a distinctive whining noise.

When I get tired of E-unit noise, I just turn off the e-unit. I don't want to back up my trains very often.

How long was it in storage?  I assume it still runs ok?  I'm afraid to try mine.  The attic it was it didnt have great ventilation so I hope nothing was damaged.  Thanks for the tip though.

CW,

Thanks for the helpful information.  I'll have to try this before I go the other route.  Where can I get this CRC 2-26 you guys are talking about?

Thanks,
Mike

P.S.  I am also looking for equipment to test my locos, see Here 

I have use Dawn dish washing detergent for years with paper towels.  Works great.  You can also use a soft toothbrush but not near the lettering.

quote:

Where can I get this CRC 2-26 you guys are talking about?

Home Depot has it listed on their web site. Many automotive stores carry it. Years ago, I purchased mine at an electrical supply store.

Hey Mike,  I use 409 for everything.  I just cleaned a couple engines a few weeks ago with 409.  I spray it right on the model then wipe it off with a clean rag.  For hard to get at places I soak a Q-tip in 409 and go at it.  I've never had anything ruined.

Rick

Mike, one other tip.  It looks like your engine has metal handrails that pop into holes in the shell.  Take a business card or piece of 3X5 to slip under the sharp end when you pull the handrail away from the shell.  This saves scratching the shell.   Use it also when reattaching - just slide it away when the rail is positioned.

With the e-unit, it is probably the drums are dirty (tuner cleaner will handle that). The other thing could be the plunger that actually moves the drum, is sticky, and again, tuner cleaner may help that. Other then a really burned out e-unit, where the windings have burned, a good cleaning normally fixes it.

Mild detergent on the shell should be fine, I like murphy's as well. With shells that are really bad, after trying detergents I have used rubbing alcohol, but you have to be very, very careful with that, for obvious reasons, it means using a very small amount on a cloth and working a very small area.in general, it might help with a stubborn spot, in effect you are softening the paint, which is why it is dangerous, but it can work with a tough spot where nothing else does..but that is a last resort.

My engine was in storage for about 15 years -- about the same as yours.  Before running it, I disassembled it and oiled the tip of the armature, removed the armature and brush plate, cleaned the old grease from the gear case, gears, and worm, regreased the worm and the gears in the power truck, put a touch of wd-40 on the E unit, cleaned the armature where the brushes contact the armature, and then it ran, no problems.  Ran with that noisy E-unit, just as I remember as a kid.  ;-)

Hope this helps.

You can run your engine on realtrax and if you have a transformer you can run it with the DCS remote if you have an MTH TIU.

I am not certain why someone would put WD-40 on an E-unit. I generally advise against doing so. WD-40 leaves a film that can attract dirt and dust. Over time it can get gummy.

The biggest problem with e-units is dirt. They should not be lubricated.

A non-lubricating contact cleaner can be used.

Wow, a lot of great information.  I appreciate it.

Looks like I'll probably be trying some dish soap and/or murphy's oil soap for the shell and CRC 2-26 to keep the originality.  Also keep the hand rails away from the shell when removing them (thanks for the tip TrainsRMe)

The e-unit sounds tricky from the information you guys have gave me, but I'm going to give it a try.

RL, I'll have to do that with my 3 plus this one too I think...  may need some advice at that point.

Liam, 
I have realtrax and a dcs remote, but not TIU, so I doubt I'll be able to get away with that

Thanks,
Mike 

I'll keep this in mind but I've never had a problem in 35+ years of playing with trains. 

Not the answer to your question, but this was one of my first and favorite engines from when I entered the hobby around 1973.  This particular unit is from 1974 as per the second digit in the cab number.  I purchased this engine and was just thrilled with it at the time.  I still have it and would never consider selling it.  In fact, eventually, I bought a case of three of them for the grand total of about $100!

This WAS the first train I have ever bought, so it will never be going anywhere.  I thought it looked lonely at the front of a train so I had to buy the second.  I was pretty excited when I finally got it out of my parents attic last month.  A case of 3 for $100?? Thats amazing, do you see what these are going for on ebay??

Anyway, I took the shell off of the one I just bought tonight and here is what I have...  doesnt look too dirty, but I'm also inexperienced when it comes to the inside workings of our hobby.

Any pointers? 

Thanks,

Mike

Also notice that the back of the frame is bent in.  My original one is not like this, which is correct?  

Mike, the straight hand rails are correct. I have had good success cleaning up frames that are mottled with shallow rust like this. Take everything off -- handrail stanchions, trucks, motor and e-unit. Spray the entire frame with liquid wrench or soak it. Let is sit about 2 to 3 days. If you use the spray, re-spray it every time you walk by it -- maybe 2 to 4 times per day to keep it real wet. Then work it over with a stiff brush (not a wire one, but a very stiff bristled cleaning brush). Then flush away all the slime with Dawn and hot water. If it looks good enough you are done and ready for final step. If it is still rough, wipe it with the Marvel Mystery Oil (I know it sounds like I sell the stuff, but I don't -- it just works and it is hard to argue with success). Now, with the light coat on it, buff it with the end of a Dremel brush on the lowest speed setting. The brush you want to use will be steel (not the stainless one, for it is too stiff) -- the brush looks like a miniature floor scrubber and that is how you use it. Just follow a slow back and forth and up and down pattern, criss crossing as needed, and the oily film will turn reddish as the rust is removed. Work on the top, bottom, sides, and the handrails as needed -- only as needed -- do not over do it.  When complete, the rusted areas will feel smooth when you rub your finger over them. Now wipe away all of the oil with a paper towel.

Now, whether you had to continue with the MM Oil or if you were done after the Dawn wash, you are ready for the final steps.  Use a bluing pen if needed on any shiny spots. If you were careful , you will normally not have any. Oil those spots and buff lightly by hand to even the finish. Then spray it liberally with WD-40 or other silicone product. This is a flushing and rinsing steps, so use it heavily. Then use absorbent cloth or paper towel to wipe away all excess WD-40. Use Q tips in the corners and tight spots. Use compressed air if needed also. Keep wiping to a uniform finish.

This method has recovered many of the evenly and lightly oxidized frames that I have worked on.

Some notes: I use the spray solvents over a deep sink and I run a heavy flow of hot water as the excess solvents flow to the sink. The environmentalists will be flipping out, so if that bothers you, then use a proper catch pan and disposal method.  

While the frame is soaking, you can work on any needed cleaning and repairs of the shell, motor and e-unit. Then all will come together quickly at the end.

Mike,

No, I really have no idea what these are going for on E-Bay.  How much are they getting for them these days?

Sometime in the 70's some dealer was getting rid of both these units and Chessie U-36-B's.  The GP-20's were $100/case, and the U-Boats were $125.  I still have all of them!

What would that be in today's $$ I wonder.  I cant remember what I paid for mine however many years ago.  I'm thinking it could've been the mid 90s.  Anyway, I checked ebay again this morning, and prices vary more than I thought.  There are a few on there just under $100, but then there are others $150 and up.  I actually could've spent another $20 and got a running one in really good condition and running properly, but what fun is that??  I've never "fixed" a train before so I figured why not.  If I cant? Well then, I have myself a dummy.

Mike,

   Looks like these guys have you headed down the right path, great info all around.  I will add one thing, after cleaning the base as Bill (Loco Mods) advises I wipe down and air dry the base completley, then repaint with black Rustolum Spray Paint, use several coats, let dry completely, then reassemble.

PCRR/Dave

The blackened frames just don't look right once painted.  Try to preserve/restore the chemical blackening when possible.

I also use Dawn dish washing detergent, I fill the sink with lukewarm water and Dawn and gently use a soft tooth brush to brush over the shell and into tight spots and into details. Rinse with lukewarm water and I blot dry with a big fluffy towel and then hit it with the air compressor at 25 psi.

Is the Marvel Mystery Oil the fuel additive?
Also, where can I get a bluing pen? 

Mike: The bluing pen I use is "Birchwood Casey."

This link should give you some locations:  http://www.bing.com/search?q=birchwood+casey+bluing+pen&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC

I use Amazon, but you may be able to find a local dealer such as a gun or sporting goods store.

For the Marvel's Mystery Oil, I recommend the #013 (which is for engine top end lube or diesel fuel additive.) I have used it for about 30 years. I purchased a quart can and put just a little into about a 2 ounce oiler or closeable squeeze bottle with a nozzle. It can be put in the small container with a tiny funnel and is much easier to control from the small oiler.

The following link will give you some leads:  http://www.marvelmysteryoil.co...php/site/wheretobuy/

It can probably be purchased locally at an auto parts store. Again, I like the number 13.  My first quart is still half full, so you can see it goes a long way. I got my start with it as an after-run additive to methanol engines in my RC airplanes. It prevents gumming and rust and is a great penetrating oil. But a tiny bit goes a long way. It is about the most slippery stuff I have ever seen.

If the links do not work, just copy and paste them into your browser navigation bar.

LocoMods,

i'll have to use those sites.  I stopped in a NAPA today and they didnt have anything.  They had Marvel's, but not the 013.  I knew I should've went to Advanced!! 

Looking good!  As far as that power truck, you'll want to remove the two Phillips screws on the top of the motor and carefully lift off the white plastic brushplate.  Be careful because the brushes will fall out.  Also, take care not to break the field wire attached to the brushplate.  You'll then be able to lift out the armature.  In addition to greasing the brass drive gear inside the truck and the worm gear at the end of the armature shaft, I would clean the commutator face (shiny copper on top of the armature).  A hard rubber pencil eraser, followed by some alcohol sparingly wiped on, and then removed with a clean lint-free cloth, worked well for me.  Reassemble in reverse order.  The brushes can be tricky to get back in, have patience.  Once you have the motor back together, remove the set-screw on top of the brushplate and put a drop or two of oil inside.  Then replace the set-screw, tightening it just enough that it puts some resistance on the shaft, then back it off just until it turns freely.  You want to be able to cut the power and have the engine coast freely to a stop.

I didn't have to do anything to my E-unit, so I'll let someone else answer that part, but I think a shot of the CRC cleaner mentioned earlier should free it up.

Thanks Mike.  I took apart the power truck today and put grease on the gears, cleaned the  commutator face, removed the set screw and oiled.  The brushes did not fall out, however I removed them and wiped them off.  They weren't too hard to get back in.

So now its E-Unit time.  Looks like I'll have to go find some of that CRC Electronic parts cleaner.  Are the parts cleaner and the 2-26 the same thing?

Also, for those of you who have this engine, does it seem to spin the wheels a little?  My original looks like its doing this.  Seems sluggish going forward, but fine in reverse.  I put my pinky finger on it while in forward (hardly any pressure) and it just spun the wheels

Thanks,
Mike 

quote:

So now its E-Unit time.  Looks like I'll have to go find some of that CRC Electronic parts cleaner.  Are the parts cleaner and the 2-26 the same thing?

No, do not put 2-26 on your e-unit. You want electric contact cleaner.

Ok, thanks for the heads up!  I googled both of those and it looks like I'd be able to find one at home depot and one at autozone, which would be good because I think I'm able to get that Marvel's Mystery Oil at autozone too

Mike: I like the CRC "QD Electronic Cleaner. It is a good value at auto parts stores. CRC part number is 05103 (upc 78254 05103).  It is safe on the e-unit parts and most plastics. Be careful with it around shells and switch turnouts. I have had no problems at all, but always test in an inconspicuous spot. It is the quick drying formula, has lots of pressure so clears away dust and gum well, and leaves no residue. A caveat (as with most solvents): Use in well ventilated area and if you use it often, I suggest you wear a rubber glove on the hand you are holding the part in. I use it to clean e-units, circuit boards and motor parts. It will even flush out old grease. Just be sure to lubricate parts as needed after cleaning. A note of caution:  I (and Lionel) do NOT recommend lubrication of the e-unit solenoid. It likes to be clean and dry so it will drop freely under gravity and not attract dust (which will turn to gunk if mixed with lube residue.  I sometimes use contact cleaner with lubricant on e-unit contacts and drum, and I sometimes spray it into the solenoid shaft area, but I always finish with the Electronic Cleaner to assure everything is dry and residue free. Some others might disagree, and I have met many who use WD-40 on e-units and motors (and for smoke fluid-  big ouch), but invariably they end up paying me to clean and repair their trains after a year or so of use.

I ship around 1500 trains a year and have done so for more than 15 years, and the cleaners and lubricants I have been using have served me well. I warrant my repairs for one year and am proud to say I have never had one returned for repair of the original problems. I have customers in 14 or 15 countries now, and have built my business on word of mouth, so I think most of my techniques must be working.

And of course I am a collector and operator with a sizeable layout (about 45 x 20), and I enjoy sharing this wonderful hobby with others.

Your loco is looking good!

Thanks Bill.  I'll have to do some shopping and try this out.  I appreciate your help!  Once I get everything I need, I'll post pictures and results.  Have you ever repaired one of these diesels?

After doing some searching for the MMO #013, all I can find is the regular MMO.  Even when it says its #013, the bottle looks no different.  Is that right?

Also, if I use the MMO, I assume I wont need the CRC 2-26?

Thanks,
Mike 

your shell looks great,

I have found that crc electronic

cleaner in the automotive section

in walmart.

Thanks!  Its hard to tell from the first picture how dirty it actually was, but I'm really happy with the way it turned out.  Thanks for the tip on the CRC.  I'm going to Advanced Auto Parts tonight, I think they may have it also.