Help, lionel dc loco conversion

Update, now it does nothing and the transformer light blinks.  I did find that the two or the wire colors were switched on the board.  After switching them I have nothing still.  Could this be a faulty board from lionel?  Thanks for any help you can give.

If two wires were switched on the board, you could have toasted the board.  Of course, we'd have to know which two wires to be sure.  It sounds like you have shorted out the drivers or diodes if you now have a direct short with the board properly wired.

From your title, I think you installed a DC reverse unit in a AC motored engine. 

you might want to post pic or give a little more info.

Bill

Good catch Bill, that probably won't work!

Thanks for the replies.  It is definitely a dc loco, it is my set from when I was a kid and it came with a dc "hobby transformer."

The wires that were switched were the grey and the brown wires. I followed the instructions from Lionel where the grey wire should connect to the center rail pick up and the brown should connect to the ground for the engine.  So that is what I did, but after the problems I described I began to look closer at the board.  That is when I discovered that Lionel got those two wires switched.

That means that I essentially had the center pickup wire and the ground wire switched.  At one point I did see a bit of smoke from the board and immediately killed the power.  I tried the motor with a DC transformer and it still runs strong both ways so it is still good.  My thought is the board did indeed get fried, does this sound right?

If so, I am going to call Lionel and ask them to send a replacement due to this one being wired incorrectly and causing it to short out.

Thanks for the help guys.

wiring diagram.

http://www.lionel.com/ForTheHo...AndFAQs/wdiagram.pdf

The center and frame wires switched shouldn't have had any effect if nothing else was wrong. 

Could I have had the headlight wires wrong and caused the original short?  Am I correct that one headlight wire should go to the center rail pickup wire and one to the ground wire?  By the way, I don't think that is how I had the headlight originally wired...

Is there any way to test the board to see if it is bad?

As John pointed , that really don't matter. Connecting the wires for the lights also should not cause any problems. I would think you received a bad E-unit or it touch frame ground during your testing. 

Bill

I'd go for "touch to frame", that will kill them quick if the wrong thing touches.

Ok guys, that sounds about like what might have happened, thanks a lot.  I will get a new one and let you know how it works out.  

Incidentally would it be possible to add a smoke unit to this loco? It's a 6425 and was labeled Cannonball Express.  It is almost the same as the Wabash loco in the same 64 series, just cheaper.  I saw the smoke unit for the Wabash and almost ordered it, but I was not sure if it would work.  there is plenty of room in front of the motor unit, and the smoke stack is open.  Thanks again for all the help, this is a great forum!

Which reverse unit was this?  The 103 or 107 now DC reverse unit?  If you had AC going to the light and the other end to DC the light would have also added a resistance/short to the board.

The 103/7 has two wires for AC and 2 wires for DC motor.  These 4 wires are on the same side, and the 2 for the motor are next to the 4 transistors that stand up with metal tabs.  You also have 2 other wires on the opposite side for the lockout switch.

Based on that how did you wire it?  G

The issue with adding a smoke unit would probably be getting it to chuff properly.  You could stuff a fan driven one in there and just let it run.

Ok, so I think this was a 107 based on your description and what is on the packing list from Lionel.

I originally wired the red and black wires to the motor terminals, the grey (which was actually in the W1 position and should have been brown) to the pickup, and the brown to the ground wire (which was in the W2 position and should have been grey).  The light was I think wired one side to the brown and one side to the grey.  The white & blue are tied to the lockout switch. 

Originally the light was tied one side to each motor terminal.  By the way the bulb is blown now, so it might have been a part of it. 

So where is the proper place to wire both sides of the light?  According to the diagram it looked like it should tie into the pickup line and then to a ground.  That's what I thought I did, but perhaps not.

wiring diagram

http://www.lionel.com/ForTheHo...AndFAQs/wdiagram.pdf

Depending on the engine he could use this.

Bill

Bill, that is exactly the one I was looking at, and they had one with an LED too.  Is it fan driven?  That was part of my hesitation as I could not determine what made it chuff.

It's not fan driven, it requires the chuff lever be activated by a cam or rod.

As you can see the unit has a flapper on the side. It is operated by the side rod of the engine. Jason we them in stock, a lot less then lionel. Check our web page. In fact if you order from our store I will send you a good used E-Unit free.

Bill

Hard to beat that deal!

Thanks Bill, when I get this thing back together I'll take a few pictures and see if you think my simple side rod will drive the flapper.  I do want to add smoke if I can.

For the 103 don't worry about colors, but the position on your diagram are correct.  The W1 and W2 are the AC input.

Now, what you need to make sure is the bulb frame wasn't attached to ground, now that you are using AC input.

Also, did you remove the original leads from the motor?  Some models had a motor terminal grounded to the chassis frame.

It was off the motor originally because the engine was running off DC track power with no electronics.  G

Yes I took both wires off the motor terminals, and one of them did originally ground to the chassis frame.  Do I need to reconnect one terminal on the motor to ground?  That would mean connecting two wires to one side of the motor, a red/black wire going to the board and a wire to the chassis for a ground.

Also, I am still unclear where the bulb wires attach with this new set up? Sorry for all the questions and thanks so much for the help!

Connect the two wire from W3 & W4 to the motor terminals. Connect W1 & W2 to AC Hot and AC ground. W5 & W6 if you want reverse lockout. The reason you blew the bulb, it was probably  a 6v bulb. The lamp should be wired to AC hot and AC ground.

Bill

Do NOT connect either of the motor leads to ground, that will surely cook the board!  The motor leads should ONLY go directly to the motor.

Ok, thanks guys.  I may talk to Bill about that smoke unit, and Lionel says they will replace the board.  Now I just need to get a better headlamp bulb, and that may require a new base too.  The one in it now is a really tiny screw in base, don't know if I can find a 12v bulb that small.

Lionel has the bulbs, and I'll bet Bill does as well.

The 12V screw bulb is common.  LHS have them normally, HO uses them too.  If you go with Bill's smoke unit you won't need a new bulb.  The smoke unit has one already wired for track power.  The smoke unit will go to the same wire bundle Bill told you to do.  The AC input.   G

I finally got the replacement part in from Lionel today.  They were nice and replaced it at no charge.  I wired it just like you said Bill and she runs like a top!  Thank you so much, and I will think about that smoke unit!