How the #$#$%$ do you open a Third Rail locomotive to change the smoke unit?

Someone may post who has this engine to help you. I only worked on my Allegheny and it was simple to take apart. I do have others but haven't touched them yet. I have a feeling that you are looking at some extra screws that may not need to be removed?

U can do it!!

Most brass steam engines come apart with three screws. Two small ones on the back of the cab below the deck and one larger one in the middle of the steam chest from below. First check to see if the smokebox front has a screw at the bottom below or if it just pulls off. Some are just friction fit.

Pete

Scott, take all the screws that you see out, and I can assure you that it'll come apart, probably for the last time.

Seriously, as Pete says, most of them have a handful of screws that take the boiler off.  Most of the older 3rd Rail stuff had a friction fit boiler front, but you may find one screw at the bottom for some models after popping the boiler off the frame.

scott.smith posted:

I have a 3rd Rail N&W Class M locomotive that needs to have the smoke unit replaced. 3rd Rail sent me a new unit and I sat down this evening to replace it. I have replaced smoke units in Lionel and MTH engines so it was something I thought I could do. Well there are a gazillion screws in this thing---how do I open up the locomotive to replace the unit?

Scott Smith

No instruction sheet with the unit?  Does the boiler front come off?  Many times the smoke units can be accessed via boiler cover.  Once unplugged or desoldered from CV board, unit comes right out the top.  G

GGG posted:

No instruction sheet with the unit?  Does the boiler front come off?  Many times the smoke units can be accessed via boiler cover.  Once unplugged or desoldered from CV board, unit comes right out the top.  G

A couple of related points:

1.  If it's a fan-driven smoke unit, it may be fixed in place by a really tiny screw underneath in the lower part of the boiler assembly. Once that is removed the smoke unit should slide out through the boiler front. That means you don't necessarily have to disassemble the rest of the engine, which is the subject of the next point. P.S. On the engine I serviced there was also a screw fitting at the top of the smoke unit that fixed it in place to the smokestack. This could be seen clearly looking down the stack and was slotted for screwdriver removal.

2.  A couple of years back I asked Scott Mann practically the same question you raise although it related to the last issue of Sunset 3rd Rail's GS-4.  His response, copied below, proved correct (as always):

"To take any of our standard Steam engine boilers off, is really just a simple screw driver job.

Usually there are two small screws at the back of the cab attaching the frame to to the cab.

And another screw from the frame up into the boiler, usually near the pilot truck mounting screws.

So to access the front screw, remove anything attaching the pilot truck to the frame. Then you will see the attachment screws to the front of the boiler / smoke box.

If the firebox won't clear the width of the motor, there may be two small ash pan plates attached that hold the chuffing swithes and smoke unit switches. Also, just 2 screws each usually releases these plates.

The wiring is plugged between the chassis and the body. The wiring systems change a bit from model to model, and are changed during testing at the factory sometimes, so wire diagrams don't always exists.

That's about it. Once do one engine, you will feel more comfortable doing more. Just don't force anything and it should all be right."

You have to take the pilot truck off to get at the front screw although you should be able to see it.

Hopes this helps.

Contact the 'Puzzle' makers!
Ralph

Hancock makes a good point about the threaded tube that fits inside the stack. If your engine has one you will see a pair of notches near the top of the stack designed for a screw driver or spanner. Also many times there is a screw from the bottom that holds a bracket for the smoke unit. You may or may not have to get at that screw. Sometimes the engine truck has to come off, sometimes you can push it aside to get at the steam chest screw.

As pointed out once you do one of these you will see similarities with most other brass steamers.

Pete

Now what???

Scott Smith

The smoke box front should now come off. Check the stack for an insert with notches at 180 degrees that a screw driver would fit into. It should become clear after you remove the smokebox front.

Pete

I suggest not trying to pry the boiler front off, normally they will come off pretty easily.  I usually just give them a tug and out they come.

Sometimes you have to remove the lead weight to get full access, I do that in a lot of cases.

I got the boiler front off-how do I get the unit out?

Lets see a picture from the top of the stack. The threaded insert may be preventing you from lifting the smoke unit up and over that brackect.

Pete

Nothing came off easy. I had to open the front, unscrew it from the front bracket then unscrew the part inside the smokestack. Unscrew the weights, removed them and then had to twist and turn the smoke unit out--it was too big to go through the front and had to be push and twisted out the big.

The good news is that is it smoking great-the bad news is I have lost a small bolt on the valve gear and I can hear the wires rub the motor or the belt while it runs...I should have paid someone to fix this.

Scott Smith

Are we having fun yet?   It is fun getting the wires away from the belt at times.

scott.smith posted:

Nothing came off easy. I had to open the front, unscrew it from the front bracket then unscrew the part inside the smokestack. Unscrew the weights, removed them and then had to twist and turn the smoke unit out--it was too big to go through the front and had to be push and twisted out the big.

The good news is that is it smoking great-the bad news is I have lost a small bolt on the valve gear and I can hear the wires rub the motor or the belt while it runs...I should have paid someone to fix this.

Scott Smith

I had to struggle upgrading my Allegheny to PS2 and add a smoke unit. I believe I went back in at least one more time. I still need to go back in years later as I got my hands on the double funnel for the smoke unit that I never had. I'm always leery of snapping something else off of her. So it's on the back burner list.

 Moral: I don't envy U!

Tie all wires and use that coil wire protector sleeve on every engine! (I worry more about wires than most anything else.)

On another upgrade I used the motor's mounting screws to fasten a metal loop as a wire guide to insure that no wires would rub that belt.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Are we having fun yet?   It is fun getting the wires away from the belt at times.

I tac the wires to the sides out of the way of the belt.  Wires leading to the headlight and smoke unit get RTV'd to the roof of the shell and down the side of the motor.  I've never have had a issue removing the smoke units from 3rdrail engines.  They all slide out the front but I don't have the engine Scott has. 

I've been using hot glue for holding wires n things in place that may need to be moved at a later date