How-To guide on making a “Pacific” series sleeping car

Wow, what a bummer'... you have provided a wealth of knowledge, history, and general education in the form of a excellent tutorial.  I think it is worth the time and energy to sand down and redo the paint job...  THANK you!! for taking the time to post this contribution'...👍

Another terrific project, "how-to" thread with plenty of detail, @T.Albers.

Question:  why did you feel it necessary to put a gloss coat on the SCII paint?  The mfr. says SCII paints are decal ready--no need for a separate gloss coat.  I ask because I am going to air brush four NP North Coast Limited dome cars soon using SCII paint and hadn't planned to apply a gloss coat prior to decal application per SCII's directions.

Question:  You didn't use SCII's gloss because...?

By the way, I feel your pain.  I thought I was about finished with two of the four NP NCL dome cars until I was trying to apply the white separation stripe and realized I'd be better served to paint the stripe.  At that point, I also realized I wasn't satisfied with the dark green paint application.  So those two cars were stripped; more accurately, are in the process of being stripped and prepped for a "do-over."

@Pingman posted:

Another terrific project, "how-to" thread with plenty of detail, @T.Albers.

Question:  why did you feel it necessary to put a gloss coat on the SCII paint?  The mfr. says SCII paints are decal ready--no need for a separate gloss coat.  I ask because I am going to air brush four NP North Coast Limited dome cars soon using SCII paint and hadn't planned to apply a gloss coat prior to decal application per SCII's directions.

Question:  You didn't use SCII's gloss because...?

By the way, I feel your pain.  I thought I was about finished with two of the four NP NCL dome cars until I was trying to apply the white separation stripe and realized I'd be better served to paint the stripe.  At that point, I also realized I wasn't satisfied with the dark green paint application.  So those two cars were stripped; more accurately, are in the process of being stripped and prepped for a "do-over."

Hi @Pingman, thanks for the support

Question 1.  Why did you feel it necessary to put a gloss coat on the SCII paint?   Answer:  The instructions on the MicroScale decal pack said, "The model must have a smooth glossy painted surface."   I thought the decals needed this Krylon high gloss finish to help them blend in better.  

Question 2.  You didn't use SCII's gloss because....?   Answer: The Krylon gloss worked great on my last two shells exterior builds (using other base coats) and I still had lots left over in the can.  I was going on autopilot and didn't consider any other types of gloss paint for this build.  You are correct, I should have used Scale Coat II gloss.  This is my first experience using Scale Coat II paint.   I almost did not post this problem today.    But its important for other O-Gauge forum members to see what happened so they don't have the same incompatibility issue.

@T.Albers, I'm sure I've never seen on the forum a more brutal turn in what up to this point had been a very innovative and, for you, satisfying project--after all, what could go wrong with only decal application and a clear coat to conclude the many hours of research and modeling invested in the project.

I'd expect you to remove the ruined paint and refinish what is a superb shell for modeling the UP prototype you've selected.  

I look forward to seeing this thread with "Updated (insert date)" in the title soon.

Well, before I got to the punch line (of the Krylon fiasco, of which more later), I was thinking in Star Trek terms, as in, "to boldly go where no man has gone before." I have found with my own passenger car detailing efforts that it is impossible to replicate machine-made accuracy, even by using machine-made parts. I have never even contemplated changing a body shell configuration using a pro-level CNC facility. But, as I have said before, I am not devoted to to prototypical window placements; I make do with what I have and design the interiors to fit. Your efforts are several orders of magnitude above what I, or as far as I am aware anyone else, has done. 

Also, when I saw the bare metal shell you had, I wondered whether I could ever bring myself to paint it as opposed to leaving it in a polished state. But then I do not have anything in 18" cars that I could pair something like that. 

The precision machining in this case is a total relevation to me, as is the availability of the shell you worked on. I might re-think what I have on the drawing board in consequence. 

Paint: I haven't had this kind of disaster in a while, but I am generally not painting whole extrusions as opposed to individual parts. I do know that Krylon formula have changed over recent times and as a result the risk of laying down incompatible paint coats is not small. I generally stick with the same brand (mostly Tru Color and Alclad) for all phases of a particular paint application.

In your position I'd strip the shell and even do the filling of the new sections over again to remedy what's happened.

However, chemical stripping may add something to the chemical mix that will cause trouble down the line. I have looked at sandblasting as an alternative for removing paint from metal finishes. Think about what custom car painters do and you will get my drift.

None of that detracts from your effort. I am, as always with your projects, totally impressed!

Thanks @Hancock52 . The shells polished aluminum finish is (was) very nice.  It would have look great on a layout with chrome Lionel end caps and other matching cars.

I’m surprised how little these Phoenix shells cost.  The shell for the first 4-4-2 sleeper was $14 and this Pacific shell was only $24.  Add the $40 cost for a donor frame with trucks from K-Line and I have a brand new project.  It’s a lot less money than buying a finished K-Line Union Pacific sleeping car.

But my jaw hit the ground when the paint went bad.  The Krylon gloss was great for about 10 seconds and then the yellow paint started to curl and wrinkle.  I will take everyone’s advice and give it another try.  

It’s getting wiped down with Acetone right now. 😖

T, great work as always. Are there not any Budd cars you could have used instead of these closer to Pullman Standard? Any chance your friend could have machined in the fluting on the roof?

Pete

@Norton posted:

T, great work as always. Are there not any Budd cars you could have used instead of these closer to Pullman Standard? Any chance your friend could have machined in the fluting on the roof?

Pete

Thanks Pete! 

Q. Are there not any Budd cars you could have used instead of these closer to Pullman Standard? A. I searched for streamline Budd passenger cars and could not find anything closer.  These potential candidates got knocked off my list because they are 21" long: All Nations/All Nations Lines, B-C models (aka Boxcar Ken), Indianapolis Car company (ICC), Union Station for new sides, Kasiner, CRC, Speer, PSC, Walthers, Weaver, Clark-Benson, American Standard Car Company/American Lightweight Car Company, Precision Scale, Russ Briggs Designs, Midland Reproductions, OK Streamliners, Golden Gate Depot, Allegheny Scale, Pomona Valley Model Supply, O-Scale King’s, Rail Chief, La Belle Kit, Sunnyside, American Lightweight Car Company and MAC Shops.

There's only a few 18" streamline passenger car manufactures I could pick from.  Lionel, K-Line, Williams, MTH, GGD for 042 and Phoenix Railways.  MTH actually made an 18" Amtrak car called "Pacific Forum" with fluted sides and corrugated roof part# MT-6508.  But the fluting and windows were not correct either.  Also, I felt the Lionel, GGD for 042 and K-Line cars with fluted sides and corrugated roofs were too expensive to cut apart for this experiment with a CNC machine.   That left the me with picking the Phoenix Railways shell.  It didn't cost much and there are plenty more shells available.   

Q.  Any chance your friend could have machined in the fluting on the roof?    A. That's a great idea.  I hadn't thought of that possibility.  I have seen were railroads would paint strips on the roof so the passenger cars looked like they had corrugated roofs but at this point in the project I think I'm just going to try and finish the build.  I don't want to give up on the Pacific Shore sleeping car even though it's been a rollercoaster.  I'm re-priming the shell this evening and have ordered more Amour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray paint.  I'm going back to using Tru-Color paint.  It worked well on my last build and did not give me any problems.

If anybody knows of other 18" Budd sleeping car manufacturers with fluted sides and a corrugated roof let me know.  I would have tried Williams but I never know if one of my builds is going to go sideways.  So far only the paint job went bad.  If that automated CNC machine had issues during the cut or was not perfectly calibrated for this shell I would have had a much bigger problem on my hands.

@Norton, After your suggestion  "Any Budd cars you could have used instead?" I went on the hunt for a better Budd style shell.  I found an 18" Lionel shell, Budd style, fluted sides, corrugated roof and smooth sides above and below the windows.  These windows are in the wrong locations for a sleeping car but I'm getting use to that issue.  (edited to remove eBay link)

You have mentioned before that 21" Lionel aluminum cars don't have the same height and width as older K-Line passenger cars.   But would this 18" Lionel aluminum passenger car match the older K-Line cars height and width?   Would Lionel post war end caps fit this shell?   (edited to remove eBay link)

The Lionel 18" cars are the same size as the Lionel 21" cars. You can use the ends from the 21" cars on this car. In fact I bought a few with the classic style diaphram end to replace the current "tube" type diaphrams on their Excursion car series. 

I guess thats good news and bad news. Here again is a Lionel 21" on the right coupled to a K-Line car left.

Pete

Update 10/4:

Well, it has taken two weeks to fix my painting mistake and that bad decision in not researching Krylon compatibility with Scale Coat II made a very memorable photo.  With Acetone on a rag I scrubbed the wrinkled Scale Coat II paint off the aluminum shell.  Then, thoroughly cleaned the chrome shell with 91% alcohol.  The next step was re-applying a fresh coat of Tamiya primer to the clean shell (again).

That bad choice may have made a memorable photo but I learn from my mistakes.  This time around I’m going back to painting with Tru-Color Amour Yellow #TCP-026 and Tru-Color Harbor Mist Gray #TCP-025.

After waiting 24-hours for each color to dry, I crossed my fingers and sprayed with Krylon gloss.  Success! I now have a high gloss finish on this shell to make the Microscale decals blend in better.

The next step is to apply the correct decals for the year I’m modeling.  I picked how the Pacific Shore would have looked in Union Pacific service between the years 1952 and 1969.  Microscale decal sheet #48-114 was used for the red stripes.  Microscale sheet #48-195 was used for the large Pullman name in the center of the shell and the smaller Union Pacific decals on each ends.  As seen below Microscale sheet #48-198 includes the name Pacific Shore.

Micro Set was used under the decals and Micro Sol over the top of the decals. It took several repeat coats of Micro Sol to get the red stripes to mold down into the shells side channels.   After the decals were dry the final step was spraying the whole shell with Krylon Flat (2 coats) so this paint job would match the exact same finish that's on my other factory painted K-Line passenger cars.

Other small items were added to the Phoenix aluminum shell like clear windows, roof vents, inside hand rails, LED lighting kit, outside grab bars and a horizontal plate for the name Pacific Shore.  Lionel end cap part numbers 2532-010 and 2532-012 were painted with Tru-Color to match the shell.  The Keil-Line Products diaphragm kit part number 4825 was purchased at a local train store and installed.

The real Pacific Shore (UP car number 1439) stayed in Amour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray streamliner colors until Amtrak took over in 1971.

Its paint was removed down to the stainless steel finish underneath and its number was changed to 2632 by Amtrak in December of 1971.  In 1978 when it was converted to Head End Power (HEP) its Amtrak number was changed to 2932.  Pacific Shore went for sale in 2001 after being in passenger service for 51 years.  The Pacific Shore’s current owner is SAM Shortline Excursion Train based out Georgia. 

In my next update I’ll post a How-To guide on making the interior for this sleeping car and photos of the finished product.

Phew. That’s an absolutely great result considering the paint issues you had to start with. Well done!

Wonderful recovery.  What vendor/part nos. did you use for the grab bars and vents?

Also, what did you use for windows and how did you make them (individually or a strip)?

The CNC milling/filling worked beautifully.

@Pingman posted:

Wonderful recovery.  What vendor/part nos. did you use for the grab bars and vents?

Also, what did you use for windows and how did you make them (individually or a strip)?

The CNC milling/filling worked beautifully.

Thanks Pingman 👍

Here’s a photo of the 0.3mm clear Styrene sheet I used to make the windows.  I cut this sheet into a strip and placed it in the long channel inside the shell that would have held the factory silhouette people.  Once the clear strips were installed On each side I used Canopy glue to secure them in place.

I will look up the part numbers for the 6x roof vents and post them next.

@Hancock52 posted:

Phew. That’s an absolutely great result considering the paint issues you had to start with. Well done!

Thank you Hancock52 👍 

Here’s a close up on the area where three CNC patches that got installed in the hallway section.  The patches blend in perfectly with the shell and nobody will be able to tell it originally had 6 windows here.

@Pingman posted:

Wonderful recovery.  What vendor/part nos. did you use for the grab bars and vents?

Also, what did you use for windows and how did you make them (individually or a strip)?

The CNC milling/filling worked beautifully.

Good Morning @Pingman,  Here are the part numbers for the roof vents I have used in my builds. 

The plastic Budd style roof vent from K-Line part K4600-06-01 is no longer available from Brasseur Trains.  But you can try Budd style roof vent from ScaleCityDesign part 48-326.   They made that style vent in white metal.  I think the dimension posted for the vent on their website are incorrect. https://scalecitydesigns.com/s...&section=product

I will get you the information and dimensions on the grab rails and post them next.

@T.Albers posted:

Thank you Hancock52 👍 

Here’s a close up on the area where three CNC patches that got installed in the hallway section.  The patches blend in perfectly with the shell and nobody will be able to tell it originally had 6 windows here.

It hadn't occurred to me until seeing this photo; but, a car without a hallway might require that the interior of the car be re-finished to hide the patched area(s) from an opposite side view.

Beautiful bodywork.

And thanks for the info on the vents.

Hi @Pingman, here's the answer about the grab bars on the side of the shell.  I started off by measuring a factory steel grab bar off another K-Line passenger car and it was 0.0325"  

Since I did not have any extra 0.0325 brass rods sitting around my house. I found a creative substitute in the same size needed made from steel.  That small paper clip even has a polished finish.

The factory grab bar inside opening measurement from K-Line was 3/8".  So I made my own 3/8" bends over basswood.  That steel paper clip really put up a fight on this part and it would have been much easier bending brass rods. 

After that, I drilled holes and mounted them to the sides of the car.  Even thought a real Union Pacific car should have stainless steel grab bars I painted them Harbor Mist Gray to match the other K-Line passenger cars in my fleet.

Hope this helps!

@T.Albers posted:

 

 I almost did not post this problem today.    But its important for other O-Gauge forum members to see what happened so they don't have the same incompatibility issue.

Thank-you for the integrity and willingness to share this.  It looks like it was able to be corrected and the car turned out great.  Every day is an experiment!

Thanks @T.Albers, for the detailed information.  The car looks great; quite a recovery.

Update: October 9th

Here’s the How-To guide on making an interior for a Pacific series sleeping car

It has taking a long time to get to this point and I'm relieved to be posting the finished results of this project.  For this build I recommend getting a frame with trucks already mounted from a used 18” aluminum K-Line streamline passenger car.  A used semi-scale K-Line car like this can be found at train swap meets or eBay for about $40 bucks.  On your 18" K-Line donor car start by removing the 2 black screws on each end that hold on the end caps.  Pull each end cap away from the shell and unplug the wires going to the overhead lights.  Slide the black metal frame with stock K-Line interior out of the K-Line shell.  Next, remove the small screws that hold the old plastic floor onto black metal frame.

Once the old plastic interior is gone the Phoenix Railways shell will need to be elevated 2mm using styrene spacers.  Glue this spacer on each corner of the black metal frame as shown below.  These spacers makes your Phoenix shell match the same roof height as other K-Line passenger cars, allows clearance for the incoming power wires and allows clearance for the trucks to turn freely under the Phoenix shell.

Your new basswood floor measurements will be 17 ½ x 2 ¼” x 1/32".  A 1/32" thick floor allows it to slide perfectly into the side slots of the Phoenix shell.  The new floor should have two 1/16” wooden strips mounted to its bottom with CA glue to add rigidity.  Always keep the plans close by on a sheet of 11" x 17" paper for this next part.  The bedrooms are marked A ~ F and some rooms can be made into an en suite by opening the partition door between rooms.   On the Budd plans the roomettes were marked 1 ~ 10 (I could only fit 1 ~ 8 inside this semi-scale shell). I originally planned for a small opening in the bathroom floor for the LED’s power wires but needed to move this opening to the center of the hallway later in the build.

Glue the walls in place and leave some room up front for a Hennings 21000 Passenger Car LED lighting kit.  The circuit board will mount in the main hallway next to the bathroom.  I'll attach my patterns for both the full and half size walls that fit inside this shell at the end of the post they are ready to print on an 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of paper.

Paint the floor, paint the walls and add mirrors in the rooms.   After the walls were dry I added chairs a toilet and sink from ScaleCityDesign.   18x K-Line bench seats part# K4400-009-02 were ordered from Brasseur Electric Trains at .50 cents each.  These bench seats are very nice but not long enough to be used as full convertible sofas in bedrooms A, C and E.  Not a problem, because with a little bit of modification you can extend these to the length of the room.  To make a sofa, use 1-1/2 bench seats per room.  This can be done by cutting one bench seat in half and attaching it to another full size seat.  Bedrooms B, D and F had lower berth/sofas that were cut down to 1/3 original size.

The figures used in this build were from Arttista, The Aspen Modeling Company and K-Line.  The upper berths in bedrooms “B”, “D” and “F” are currently folded up and stored until evening.  On this end of the car you will find the soiled linen locker. In the middle of the car you will find the clean linen locker and storage for folding tables.

To get the correct colors for the carpet, walls and furniture I researched the Pacific Sands which is currently owned by http://www.larail.com/our-rail...cific-sands-sleeper/ .  On “B” end of the car on the left side is a separate room for the sleeping car attendant.  The normal direction of travel for the Union Pacific's City of Los Angeles sleeping cars was vestibule forward.  That meant the sleeping car attendant’s seat was backwards while traveling down the rails.

On the right side on the vestibule end of the car is the common toilet-washroom.  Putting door outlines and door handles in the main corridor gives my guests something to look at on this side of the sleeping car.  The Pacific series cars have stainless steel wall/kick plate down the main corridor to prevent luggage from scuffing the interior walls.  I’m starting to have fun displaying these passengers doing different things.  That way my visitors can look into the windows and see the unique personalities of each passenger.  Next to the bathroom in roomette #7 this passenger just painted her toenails and letting them dry.

In the “A” bedroom this brawny male passenger with the 1950’s pompadour hairstyle has his duffel bags ready for arrival at Los Angeles Union Station. He’s going to Hollywood to be a stunt double for Tony Curtis.  Bedroom “B” is empty.

I’m not sure what the story is in bedroom “C” but this passenger is quickly shaving off his beard and changing clothes.  Messy stacks of unmarked $100 bills can seen piled up inside his open suitcase.  Hats, coats, shoes, luggage, bags and suitcases full of money are from Preiser kit number 65811.  Next door, the grandmother in bedroom “D” has matching luggage and is ready to visit her family.

A mother glances over at her little boy in bedroom “E”.  His face is pressed up against the glass in amazement at the western scenery passing by outside the window.  Hanging on the wall is her fur coat and on the sofa is a purse and red hat. A business man sits in bedroom “F” in a gray suit and reading the travel magazine about a newly opened theme park in Anaheim called Disneyland.

Next, I needed to install the new interior into the freshly painted shell.  To my surprise the K-Line frame with trucks did not fit into the aluminum shell while still attached to the interior like my other builds.  The reason was the lower skirts of this Phoenix Railway’s shell is .625” long and curves deep under the sides of the aluminum shell.  To get around this problem I had to separated the interior from the black metal frame.  Then, slid the interior into the shell.  Then, attach the metal frame to the bottom of the basswood interior using four screws.

Once all together the frame and trucks centered nicely under the 18" Phoenix shell.  As seen in this next photo only one set of K-Line trucks needed 1/16” of rounding off on its upper inside corner to make it around my layouts tight 042 curves.

I liked the quality of this 18" Phoenix Railways aluminum shell and would recommend them to anyone who wants to build a Budd style sleeping cars with fluted sides.  This Pullman sleeping car is now a pretty close match to the real Pacific series cars Budd delivered to the Union Pacific in 1950.

Thank you to all the OGR Forum members for the positive feedback and support during this challenging build.  With your encouragement I was able to finish the Pacific Shore sleeping car and it has turned out to be one of my favorite passenger cars in the fleet.  To look at the other builds in this series click on the links below. They are listed in the order I run them on my layout:

https://ogrforum.com/...-an-e-8-cab-interior

https://ogrforum.com/...interior-upgrade-rpo

https://ogrforum.com/...6327-k4690#lastReply

https://ogrforum.com/...car-interior-upgrade

https://ogrforum.com/...enger-car-8003-k4690

https://ogrforum.com/...lounge-car#lastReply

https://ogrforum.com/...enger-car-1305-k4690

https://ogrforum.com/...upgrade-k-line-k4690

https://ogrforum.com/...upgrade-k-line-k4690

https://ogrforum.com/...senger-car#lastReply

https://ogrforum.com/...upgrade-placid-haven

https://ogrforum.com/...oenix-aluminum-shell

https://ogrforum.com/...pullman-sleeping-car

https://ogrforum.com/...c-passenger-car-1575

https://ogrforum.com/...-passenger-car-k4690

Beautiful work as always! Your attention to detail is fantastic.

Quick Question: Was the horizontal plate that you used for the name Pacific Shore purchased from a company or was it custom made? I assume it would not be too difficult to make but you would have to get the grooves for the fluted sides correct for said plate to fit snugly.

Bryce

Thank you Bryce 👍

The horizontal nameplate was made from a strip of .020 x .188" styrene (Evergreen Scale Models part# 128).  It was the very last detail I applied to the outside of the shell.  It’s mounted on top of of the fluted side like the Budd prototype.  As far as I could see Budd bolted these plates on the side of the car and they did not use groves on the back of the name plates.  

  Thank you for the feedback!  Here’s a close up view.

@T.Albers posted:

The horizontal nameplate was made from a strip of styrene.  It was the very last detail I applied to the outside of the shell.  It’s mounted on top of of the fluted side like the Budd prototype.  As far as I could see Budd bolted these plates on the side of the car and they did not use groves on the back of the name plates.  

  Thank you for the feedback!  Here’s a close up view.

Thank you for the info!

@T.Albers posted:

Good Morning @Pingman,  Here are the part numbers for the roof vents I have used in my builds.

The plastic Budd style roof vent from K-Line part K4600-06-01 is no longer available from Brasseur Trains.  But you can try Budd style roof vent from ScaleCityDesign part 48-326.   They made that style vent in white metal.  I think the dimension posted for the vent on their website are incorrect. https://scalecitydesigns.com/s...&section=product

First, great build of the interior - I especially like the passenger figures with characters of their own. I've done a bit of this as you know but I can see that in a sleeping car there's room for, er, mischief - of the not so innocent variety where your beard shaving guy is concerned.

Come to think of it, I know you have a complete photo record of all of these cars but are you making any sort of digital or hard copy album out of them? I have with a couple of my builds.

Anyway, what I wanted to point out was that you officially qualify not only as a master craftsman but as a treasure hunter. I have never seen a variety of roof vents like you tracked down. In particular, one (top middle) appears to have an open mesh grille. I have generally gone with the Scale City Design offerings because they are old Keil Line products and I am used to working with them.

Well done again. Any preview of what's next?

Superb.  As outstanding as your exterior modeling is (e.g. utilizing CNC machining to alter the window pattern of the aluminum shell), I believe you surpass those skills with the interior's fidelity to the prototype.

Thanks for sharing the nitty gritty details and sourcing of product.

@Pingman posted:

Superb.  As outstanding as your exterior modeling is (e.g. utilizing CNC machining to alter the window pattern of the aluminum shell), I believe you surpass those skills with the interior's fidelity to the prototype.

Thanks for sharing the nitty gritty details and sourcing of product.

Thank you @Pingman !

In the Pacific Shore interior I was trying to find new and unique figures I have not used in the other passenger cars.  Doing this helped me separate the look of this interior from other sleeping cars.  The passenger in the gray suit was from Arttista #1335 called man driving.  To make him fit this scene I gave him legs, feet, eyes and a magazine to hold.

The grandmother in room "D" in was from Arttista pack #1291, called young couple driving.  To make her fit this scene I separated her from the male figure in the package then gave her legs, a right arm, eyes and a purse to hold.  Grandma brushed her hair this morning and is getting ready for arrival.  The male figure from this Arttista pack #1291 was used in room #A as the Tony Curtis look-a-like.

The money inside the suitcase was a surprise to me.  I started painting the contents and found stacks and stacks of cash inside!  I didn't know Preiser kit number 65811 had this fun detail.  At that point, I new this suitcase with money had to been in the room with the cowboy shaving.

The small roomettes have enough room for K-Line figures.  So I repainted the K-Line people and gave them eyes with a 0.05 Staedtler pen.  I feel adding eyes make these passengers come alive.    As you can see this business passenger in roomette #4 is hard at work studying the latest Union Pacific magazine with a E8 going around Sullivan's curve in the Cajon Pass on the front cover.

I made the K-Line passenger in roomette #7 painting her toenails with shoes off to drawn the viewers attention to the floor and away from the privacy curtain.  This privacy curtain is closed in this scene because the wiring for the LED circuit board is just on the other side.

Thank you for the positive feedback! 👍

Thanks @Hancock52

Q. I know you have a complete photo record of all of these cars but are you making any sort of digital or hard copy album out of them? A. I don't have a photo album but that's a great idea.  It also could be made into a fun game when my little nephews come over.  I could show them a photo of a passenger and then tell them to find the chef (they would have to learn which is the dining car with kitchen) or find the bartender John T. Ruh (they would have to know where The Little Nugget was in the train) or find the suitcase of money. 💰

Q. Any preview of what's next? A. I have a lot of projects I want to get done but Fall is here and temperatures are dropping into the 30's at night.   I had to pack away the air brush and paints for the winter.   But there has been something bothering me since I first got my K-Line dome car.  K-Line did not use the correct ACF dome.  Here's drawing of a 9000 series observation lounge with a correct sized dome.  This dome structure should stretch about 1/3rd length of the car, should not have any crossbars through the windows and should have a large top center section.  The front of the dome should start just behind the front side window and the rear of the dome goes all the way to the first side window.

Below is the incorrect Budd dome structure that came with my K-Line car.  Its about 1/4th the length of the car.  I have had this Budd dome structure off the car before.  It just snaps on/off.  That means I can work on this project inside the house during the winter were its warm.  The front of this dome seems to be placed correctly.   But this dome needs to be longer and go farther back.

On the plus side for this ACF dome structure project I have found that Tru-Color's Harbor Mist Gray paint is an exact match for the existing gray K-Line roofs.   Check out this photo of five sleeping cars all lined up.  Four of these cars have the factory gray roofs and one car I painted with Tru-Color.  The Tru-Color gray roof blends in great with the other cars.  That means my newly built dome structure will blend in well with the existing roof color on a K-Line dome car.

On the downside for this project I will have to fabricate a lot of items out of Brass or Styrene.   @Pingman has been trying to replace domes structures on some of his cars for a while and has been a big help to me so far.   

I was going to reach out to your for some dome window measurements on your 21" Lionel Excursion car.  Do you think you can assist with these measurements?

@T.Albers I will get the measurements from one of my dome cars although I cannot guarantee that they will be scale accurate for your purposes because the cars are nearly full-1/48 scale at 21” length.  The domes appear to be separate plastic moldings (see photo below) but unlike the first run of 21” ABS dome cars, which were non-prototypical, they are not just snap-fitted into the rest of the body shell (and on my project I avoided trying to take them out). I think that they may be slightly smaller in proportion compared to your line drawing above but certainly the best effort made to date in 3rail O scale - not even GGD has done anything similar.

@Hancock52 posted:

@T.Albers I will get the measurements from one of my dome cars although I cannot guarantee that they will be scale accurate for your purposes because the cars are nearly full-1/48 scale at 21” length.  The domes appear to be separate plastic moldings (see photo below) but unlike the first run of 21” ABS dome cars, which were non-prototypical, they are not just snap-fitted into the rest of the body shell (and on my project I avoided trying to take them out). I think that they may be slightly smaller in proportion compared to your line drawing above but certainly the best effort made to date in 3rail O scale - not even GGD has done anything similar.

Thank you @Hancock52

I agree, those Lionel cars have the best looking ACF domes I have seen in 3 rail.  I don't need all the dome measurements, just a few.  1.  Across the top of the domes flat center roof section. 2. Bottom vertical panel on the domes lower edge.  3.  Width of the curved window beams. 

Compared to the other projects I have attempted on this forum I feel this is one of my lower risk undertakings.  If I really mess something up while building this new dome structure I can always go back to the original factory K-Line dome.

@T.Albers, MTH sells a full length dome "window" insert for their 15"/16" pax cars which might be suitable to cut-to-fit a dome superstructure for your purposes.

Good luck.

@T.Albers posted:

Thank you @Hancock52

I agree, those Lionel cars have the best looking ACF domes I have seen in 3 rail.  I don't need all the dome measurements, just a few.  1.  Across the top of the domes flat center roof section. 2. Bottom vertical panel on the domes lower edge.  3.  Width of the curved window beams.

Compared to the other projects I have attempted on this forum I feel this is one of my lower risk undertakings.  If I really mess something up while building this new dome structure I can always go back to the original factory K-Line dome.

Apologies especially to @T.Albers for taking so long to reply but I have been out of circulation for a while.

The above three measurements in Metric and Imperial are:

Dome window upright frames: 3 mm or .11 inch wide

Bottom dome frame to inside edge of dome window frame: 6.5 mm or .25 inch

Across dome solid top: 33.5 mm or 1.32 inches

All these were taken with a digital micrometer. I've also measured the length of the dome structure and that comes out as 143.6 mm or 5.65 inches. Length of the car body as a whole (not counting diaphragms) is 20.75 inches or 527.05 mm. The front edge of the dome structure is set back 5.94 inches or 150.9 mm from the front edge of the car.

Hope this assists.

If I had to guess my O-scale version of the Pacific Shore has either 41-C or 41-N type postwar streamline passenger truck underneath it.  Either way, they don’t look like the real trucks that came underneath a Pacific series passenger car in 1949.

After searching the internet I found Kemtron made a brass 41-CUDO truck kit that would be a good match for my Pacific Shore passenger car.  This popular style truck with outside swing hangers was first used by Union Pacific underneath the Pacific series passenger cars.  The post-war Pullman Company truck code for 41-CUDO breaks down as 4 four wheels, 1 single booster, C 9-0” wheel base, U 14 1/16” (Union Pacific specified pedestal openings), D Disc brakes and O Outside swing hanger.  One of the reasons the 41-CUDO trucks were liked by Union Pacific’s mechanical department was its simplicity of design and ease of maintenance.

In my October 2019 photo below you can see 41-CUDO trucks with outside swing hangers still running on the #103 business car Cheyenne.

41-CUDO trucks still run underneath the dining car City of Los Angeles #4808. The General Steel Industries emblem can be seen on the side frame.

I found a Kemtron kit online an bought it. The benefits of using a brass kit is it can be soldered together and it comes with assembly instructions.  Here’s what the pile of parts looked like when I got it.

To make this kit to fit on my 3-rail, O-Scale Pacific Shore passenger car I won’t be using the 2-rail wheels or center bolsters.   After separating out the unneeded brass pieces the brass truck kit didn’t look so intimidating.

The first step in the instructions was to remove the extra spruce material and file away the flash from the journals and bearing surfaces.

Done

The next part was to remove the extra spruce material and file the side frames and equalizer units.

Done

Then, the instructions said to solder the equalizer onto the center-top of the side frame.  Sand down your connections points and apply flux. I found soldering brass is much easier now that I’m using a micro torch and small chips of solder.

Next, I needed to solder a mounting bracket onto the brass side frame and drill three holes in this new mount to match my existing K-Line center bolster assembly.

At this point, I could install the coil springs and journal equalizer bar for a test fit.  Here’s a quick look of what these very detailed brass Kemtron 41-CUDO trucks look like fully assembled.

Stay tuned for the next part.  I still have to paint the new truck assemblies and get them installed under my O-scale version of the Pacific Shore.

Thanks,

I think I have to stop labeling my project threads with the word “finished” because I keep finding new items to add to my Union Pacific passenger cars.  I thought this Pacific Shore passenger car was finished last year and then I found these great 41-CUDO trucks.  Anyways, back to the thread... after unmounting the brass assemblies from the test fit all parts were cleaned and painted with gray Tamiya “fine” spray primer.

After the primer dried for 24 hours the side frames were painted bright aluminum to match Union Pacific’s streamline passenger cars paint scheme after mid-1955.  Before you paint, make sure you solder the coil springs on both the top and bottom to provide an electrical connection between your car’s interior lights and the track.

The inside-top of the side frames needed to be filed back to help clear the cars lower skirt while going around my layouts tight 42” curves.   

Here's two more October 2019 photos of 41-CUDO trucks running underneath UP’s dome diners #8004 and #8008.

To help other O-gauge forum members who find this post in the future, I'm attaching the original instructions for building this Kemtron truck kit.

The new trucks run great and look great under my O-scale Pacific Shore and are a much better match to what the real Union Pacific passenger cars had back in 1949.  Let’s call this project finished for now… 👍

Thanks,

I agree, @T.Albers, that they look great, and also with the hazard of finding more things to add to a project, which is something of a curse. "Finishing touches" often means that you haven't finished, or won't ever finish at all. I think that the temptation is particularly strong when you find some quality part, new or very old, that really ought to be used as it was meant to be. Anyway, congrats on another fine effort.

Thank you @T.Albers for yet another excellently photographed and described "how to" post in your UP passenger car series.  So often folks will post on a project, but don't describe the technique or details which greatly diminishes the utility of their efforts for others.

Including the directions for the trucks is but another example of your generous contributions.  Thank you.

@Pingman posted:

Thank you @T.Albers for yet another excellently photographed and described "how to" post in your UP passenger car series.  So often folks will post on a project, but don't describe the technique or details which greatly diminishes the utility of their efforts for others.

Including the directions for the trucks is but another example of your generous contributions.  Thank you.

Thanks @Pingman  I forgot to include a small detail in this project that might help others who are building 41-CUDO trucks like this.   When installing your new side frames the horizontal bolster anchor rod (see arrow below) should be oriented toward the center of a passenger car.   

I messed up the first time and had to install the front set of side frames twice on the Pacific Shore to get this tiny detail correct!

Thanks,

Wow !!!

Great thread !!!

Thanks to all posters !!!

CB&Q Bill

So Bill, another resurrected thread from awhile back. 😉 To me, the length some of our model railroaders go for re-creating prototypical detail is mind-boggling. I just settle for whatever is out there to purchase and never mind if has the wrong trucks, incorrect window spacing, lettering, etc. If it looks close to the what the real thing looked like, that's good enough for me.

But I salute model railroaders like Mr. Albers for his attention to detail and willingness to make it look right. Those are fine cars and look great. A far cry from what I settle for. But when the trains are moving, my grandkids are content and don't seem to mind the generic, less detailed cars.