I'm thinking of dabbling in 2 rail...(UPDATE--I dove in Head First)

Thanks, that does help!  The more I look at the board the more it makes sense. I think. haha

I haven't measured for the speaker yet.  Will do that today.  I think the smaller one will fit, but will measure.  I might buy the larger one and swap it into the CSX and put the smaller one in here.  It does have an 8 ohm speaker in it now, but I am sure the quality is not the same.

I remembered this morning I have the board from the CSX install since it was DCC ready.  So I took a look at it and looked at the ESU install guide.  It has the following pad labels I think correspond with what you said...Tell me if I am seeing correctly.

TRK L & TRK R -- Track power (red wires from trucks?)  How do I know which is L & R?   Black wire on trucks are ground wires and go to the GND pad on board?

MOT + & MOT -  -- Motor terminals positive and negative.  Is there a way to know which is positive and which is negative for the electrically challenged?  Atlas didn't use NMRA standard colors  I have yellow and blue.

FL & RL -- Front and rear Light Negative Wire? (should I assume the resistor on the light already is fine?  Positive side to U+? There are 2 U+ pads.

AUX 1 & Aux 2 -- front and rear marker lights.  (Negative wire) Positive wire to U+

SP+ & SP- -- Speaker positive and negative lead

If I wanted to add lighted number boards separately, I can use Aux 3 & 4 and the positive would go to U+ also?

I also assume when I am putting wires together for lights, I solder them together and then have a single lead going to the U+ post?

There is also a potentiometer on the bottom I assume was for sound.  I see this board has pads for sound.  Any point in using it?

Andy, you've grasped the concept for sure!  

Now it's just the details.

NMRA DCC standard for the original NMRA 8 pin plug:

Pickups - looks like Atlas followed this from your pics

• Red wire = Right rail (engineer's side) with the loco facing forward
• Black wire = Left rail ditto

Don't use the ground connection on the board for the black. Use the Track R and Track L pads in the diagram. 

Motors  standard

• Orange wire = motor +ve [but you can swap these so the loco moves forward when the controller is set to forward
• Grey wire = motorr -ve

But you have blue and yellow instead. So it'll be a question of both yellows to Motor +ve and both blues to -ve. You can swap them as needed to get both motors moving the loco forward when the controller is set to forward. You can use a 9V battery on the motor leads first to figure out and mark the correct connections

 Lighting

• White wire = front headlight -ve
• Yellow wire  = rear headlight -ve
• Green wire = Aux 1 -ve
• Blue wire = +ve for all Aux

After that it varies a bit between manufacturers but LS uses

• Purple wire = Aux 2
• Brown wires for speaker
   

Atlas doesn't usually follow these colours but no worries.  The main thing to note here is that all the LEDs will need resistors adding to the -ve leads or you will blow them. The resistors were on the Atlas boards you removed. Do NOT test these LEDs with the 9V battery!      

You can test the LEDs with a coin cell battery such as CR2032 between the wires. That battery won't damage them if you connect the wrong way around. Mark all the LED leads once you know +ve and -ve so we can figure out the resistors.

Yes, you can use one blue +ve wire between all the LEDs in the shell and another one for any LEDs in the chassis.  I use a small plug and socket in all the wires to the shell for easy removal later.

Yes, you can use any of the remaining Aux pads for additional LEDs. You'll need a resistor in each -ve lead and the +ve lead will go to one of the blue wires going to the U+ pads on the board.

I wouldn't bother with the volume pot as master volume can be set by one CV using your NCE throttle with the loco running. As well you can set the volume of every sound separately in the decoder.  

Pete

Pete M posted:

Pickups - looks like Atlas followed this from your pics

• Red wire = Right rail (engineer's side) with the loco facing forward
• Black wire = Left rail ditto

Pete

On the Atlas trucks you have to connect the red from the front truck to the black wire of the rear truck and vice versa.  Atlas O does not follow ANY part of the NMRA color code (HO does to a certain extent).

Good catch, thanks Jim! 

I was thinking it looked like maybe the red wires were both on the right side in the picture.  But now I recall that on my installs I checked continuity between red and black wires with my meter and did end up with red to black on the GP35s at least.

Thanks guys!

I tested all the LEDs and they work.  I tested the motors and they work also.  I also found a "red" dot on each motor on the yellow wire side.  I am 99% sure yellow is positive.

The LEDs have red and black wires.  The red are positive and black are negative.    The front and rear light have resistors on the positive/red wire.  On the marker lights the resistor will go to the positive wire as well?

So the track pickup wires are red to black front to back, then a wire on each going to the TRK L & TRK R respectively?

Starting to make sense, especially after I tested the connections.

Also, what resistors should I have in my arsenal? 470 ohm, 1k ohm and 2.2k ohm to start?

 

roll_the_dice posted:

Thanks guys!

I tested all the LEDs and they work.  I tested the motors and they work also.  I also found a "red" dot on each motor on the yellow wire side.  I am 99% sure yellow is positive.

>> That's good!  For now all you need to do is wire it so that both motors move the loco in the same direction when connected to the 9V battery. So you could start by connecting yellow to yellow on one 9V battery terminal and blue to blue on the other. Then see if the wheels are fighting or both going the same way.  If fighting, swap one motor's wires on the battery and try again. Once they are in sync, you can change the polarity in the decoder or by swapping the wire pairs on the decoder board pads later when you test the loco on DCC.

The LEDs have red and black wires.  The red are positive and black are negative.    The front and rear light have resistors on the positive/red wire.  On the marker lights the resistor will go to the positive wire as well?

>> It doesn't matter which for the resistor. But the convention seems to be put the resistor in the -ve wire of each LED. Maybe that's because you often end up connecting multiple LEDs to one blue wire. So always adding a resistor to each -ve wire makes it easier to not miss one and blow the LED.  That's another of my T-shirts...  

So the track pickup wires are red to black front to back, then a wire on each going to the TRK L & TRK R respectively?

>> As Jim reminded us, Atlas trucks aren't wired left or right handed, they just rotate one truck on the loco. So you need to continuity check the red and black wires from the trucks. You want to find a current path between the right rail, one red and one black truck wire, and then the left rail and the other red and black wires. Once you have the two wires paired for each rail, then solder the right rail pair to TRK R and te left rail pair to TRK L as you say.  If the loco does turn out to run backwards on DCC, we can either swap the motor wires or fix it in the decoder settings.

Starting to make sense, especially after I tested the connections.

>> Great!   Once you've done one loco it gets a lot easier.     I think the main thing now is just to figure out the red and black pickup wires for left and right rails.

Also, what resistors should I have in my arsenal? 470 ohm, 1k ohm and 2.2k ohm to start?

>> I would say 470 Ohm is a bit low for today's brighter LEDs but if the loco is old it might be good to have some. For sure I would have 1k and 2.2k on hand. 1/4 Watt is fine for LEDs. For me the issue is can I get a nice low dim setting. The brightness seems to be more than enough with 1k.  So now I use 2.2k to get a really low dim and still have good brightness. There are a couple of ways to get adjustable brightness and dimming in LS5DCC settings anyway so we can figure that out during programming.

I would also get some heat-shrink tubing of suitable sizes as well so there'll be no bare wire inside the loco.  Yep, you guessed it: T-shirt #3... 

Pete

There is so much great content in this thread, might make sense to take and split it up, based on layout design, loco decoder installs, etc... it's kind of everywhere. 

Thanks Pete!  I have learned so much...it is crazy! 

I connected the track wires as Jim said red to black front to back...then had the yellow wire to + on the battery and the engine moved forward...so I "think" I have it figured out..not close.. but learning is great!

I bought a "kit" of heat shrink in various sizes last week for this project.  I just need to get the soldering station (my bday is next week) and the resistors..

roll_the_dice posted:

Thanks Pete!  I have learned so much...it is crazy! 

I connected the track wires as Jim said red to black front to back...then had the yellow wire to + on the battery and the engine moved forward...so I "think" I have it figured out..not close.. but learning is great!

I bought a "kit" of heat shrink in various sizes last week for this project.  I just need to get the soldering station (my bday is next week) and the resistors..

One other thing.  Good electronic solder.  I HIGHLY recommend 63/37 (63% tin, 37% lead) solder over 60/40 solder.   63/37 solder is eutectic, meaning it hardens all at once making for a better solder joint.  60/40 solder hardens slowly meaning it will form a bad joint if the wires are moved while cooling.  Diameters of .020" or .025" are a good all purpose size (those are the only sizes we use in my electronics factory)

https://www.amazon.com/Kester-...585019002&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.com/Indium-...85019098&sr=8-15

Thanks Jim...Good tip!  I definitely trust your electronics factory!

I have the resistors on order, I ordered the solder Jim recommended, and I just bought 6 #5 switches...so everything is moving forward.  Everything is moving forward...

OK, so I finally got my soldering station and decoder delivered.  I connected what I thought was correct wiring, but I am getting a short.  I have yellow to yellow, and blue to blue for the motors...then those are connected to (yellow) Mot+ and (blue) Mot-.  The front truck red wire is connected to rear black and vice versa as Jim stated.  Then those have a wire coming off each to the TrkR and TrkL.  Not sure what I should look at for the short...I also checked continuity with the track power wires.

Is this a 4-axle locomotive (GP35)? If so, then there should be 2 wires connected to each truck, one hot and one ground. I think the hot goes to the center (the contact is made with the wiper). If the wipers are on the same side then connect the wires that go thru the center of each truck (hot) and connect the ground wires. Atlas doesn't follow any particular pattern so it could be red to red and black to black.

Thanks Rob...Yes, 4 axle GP35.  Right now I have those as red to black front to back...so you think it should be red to red and black to black?  I did check continuity and it seemed to be correct red to black.

OK, you were right Rob (@catnap)...I swapped the pickup wires and it runs under DCC.  Now I just need to wire the lights, speaker and put it back together!  Thanks for the help.

OK I have everything working correctly (running FWD/REV, FRL, RL, Sound) except the class/marker lights.  I have the rear marker/class negative terminal with resistor connected to the Aux2 pad and the front connected to the Aux1 pad.    I have the positive side to both connected together on one of the U+ pads. When I press F6 both front and rear marker lights come on. What am I missing to be able to control them separately?

I'm happy to hear that you got the track pick up wiring resolved. I have 3 GP35's that I upgraded from DC to DCC but they're put away for now until a layout gets built. I was too lazy to get them out to look at how I wired the track pick ups. I was going from memory when I replied.

I have my front class lights going to AUX3 (F5) and the rear markers going to AUX4 (F13) to access them independently. The default settings for AUX3 and AUX 4 are rotary beacon and rear ditchlights respectively. With the LokProgrammer, I set the output modes for AUX3 and AUX4 as dimmable headlights but disabled Rule 17 lighting since I don't want them to dim when the locomotive is idle then get brighter once the throttle is engaged. Only the headlights should be set to Rule 17.

By wiring the class/marker lights to AUX1 and AUX2 (F6) you will lose independent control and the front and rear lights will illuminate when F6 is pressed. The default for AUX1 and AUX2 is front ditchlights. Do the class/marker lights flash when the horn is sounded or did you disable the global grade crossing feature? There is also an option for alternating phase which will cause them to oscillate like real ditchlights. Either way, when F6 is pressed, both the front and rear lights will light up or turn off simultaneously. I think in addition to AUX3 and AUX4, AUX 5 and AUX6 can be used to get the desired lighting effects you seek.

Thanks Rob...Great memory ...That helps a lot!  I will get the marker light changed over and get it final tested and get everything buttoned up.

I am thinking of connected the auto couplers and shaving some of the long side of the coupler off as I saw in another post.  I have tested the couplers with a battery and they fire with either wire to + and -....how would I try to connect these and what Function would it be?  Thanks

Andy,

The F6 issue is in the decoder's Function map, fixable by CV programming.

With LS decoders you can program any Function to control any separately wired Aux output including the Front and Rear headlights. As well you can set conditions such as moving or stopped, forward or reverse, and choose from a big list of effects for every Aux wire output.  Plus you can have a 31-step adjustable dim setting on a separate function for Front and Rear headlights and on LS5DCC, for Aux 1 and 2 if needed.

So if you can list what is soldered to each pad on the decoder board for us, we can help you set each LED to be doing exactly what you want when you want!  Could you also say which soundfile you have in the decoder e.g. S0xxx?  That will help us to see how F6 is set up now and know what to change in the Function map. 

Pete

The sound file is S0773OK.  I moved the class lights from AUX1 & AUX2 to Aux 3 & 4 last night.  Pressing F5 makes the front class lights blink.  Pressing F13 works the rear class lights correctly.  So I think I just need to get the lights to stop blinking.

I don't have the lokprogrammer so any programming changes will need to be done through my NCE handheld on programming track or program on the main since my main is a 36" piece of track right now to test my engines.

I know as I get into learning DCC more and understanding all the function keys I will want to get more "fancy", but right now I think I just want everything to work.   I would like to get the electro couplers connected and try them.  I know everyone will say just change to kadee, but I want to try.

I assume, I would want some standard operating procedures for all my engines so I don't have to remember that F6 is on my GP35 vs what F6 is on my Dash8.

The following is what I have on each pad on the PCB.

• FL--Front Light negative with resistor, Positive side to U+
• RL--Rear Light negative with resistor, Positive side to U+
• MTR+ Yellow wires from + side of motor
• MTR- Blue wires from - side of motor
• TRK R--Track pickup drivers side
• TRK L--Track Pickup Fireman side
• AUX 3--Front Marker/Class light negative with resistor, Positive side to U+
• Aux 4-- Rear Marker/Class Light negative with resistor, Positive side to U+

Thanks for everyone's help...almost there.  

OK understood and thanks for the info. 

You don't need to move any wires, this is all doable in the decoder's CVs. We're going to change the lighting effect being sent to each Aux solder pad from the decoder.

I think the best way to get your head around the LS function output options and Function mapping process will be to download the free LokProgrammer software v5.0.12 from the ESU website:

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads...tware/lokprogrammer/

As well, download the sound file S0773 here:

http://projects.esu.eu/project...h?cat=18&q=s0773

Then we can take a look at the Function output and Function map screens in the LP software, and help you to make the changes needed on those screens. Than you can have the LP software show you a list of the changed CVs and what values you need to set. Finally you can set them with your NCE throttle. 

For example in the default S0773 file, you can see that the Aux 3 effect is set to "Emergency light":

(click on attachments at the foot of this post for a higher-res view)

And Aux 4 effect is set to "Rear ditch light left":

In the Function map below you can see that pressing F5 turns on Aux 3 - the beacon effect you're seeing.

And F13 is mapped to Aux 4 and Aux 5 which are set to Ditchlight effect, so you get the simple on-off of the rear class lights.

You are about to start drinking from another fire hose, but don't panic!  All we need to do for now is change the Aux 3 function output to be a simple on-off effect.  Like this:

You could also reduce the brightness of the class lights with the slider at the bottom of the screen, I left it for now.

Then in the Tools menu choose "Show changed CVs" to get the list of CVs you need to change with your throttle:

Note 1: You need to set CV31 to 16 and CV32 to 0 first, then set CV291 and CV292 as shown.

Note 2:  I'm not a NCE user but I have read of some NCE systems not being able to program CVs above 255.  I hope that doesn't apply to yours!

And that's it.  For now...  

Pete

Thanks Pete...all makes sense.  It also seems as if this would be easier with the LokProgrammer.  I almost bought one last week.  Maybe I will just bite the bullet and go ahead and order it.

I also connected the rear electro coupler to test it.  It works fine, but I need it to only be "on/open" enough to fire then turn off.  Am I reading the above correctly where in the AUX setup, it has an option to turn the Aux off after so many milliseconds in the enable function timeout feature?

Andy, I highly recommend the Lokprogrammer if you're planning to have a few LS decoders in your roster.  It opens up a whole load of great features and makes them a lot easier to program.  Plus you can load any soundfile you want, and update the decoder firmware when new versions/features are available. 

I have never used electro couplers and I have to start with a not of caution: Before using them on a regular Aux output I would want to know the current draw.  The LS5DCC L decoder does have some other outptuts for servos etc., so if the coupler current draw is more than LS specifies for regular Aux, you could look at those.

Yes, you nailed it re the function timeout feature.   

I also note there's a "coupler" option with adjustable force in the Function outputs "Output mode (effect)" dropdown. No idea how it works, so read the manual first (yeah, I know ), and maybe try at a low force setting first:

Pete

Thanks Pete...I could changed the higher CV values so I changed Aux 3 to be simple on/off.  Works perfectly.

Everything is working now except the couplers, but I am not going to worry about that until I get the Lokprogrammer.  I watched a good video today from ESU on its capabilities and easily mapping functions and such.  I will probably order one tomorrow.  I need to see if I still have a Windows laptop somewhere though.  Would be nice if it would connect through a Mac.

So this morning I started feeling froggy..and played with the Motor Control through the NCE handheld.  I set the starting voltage at 5v, max at 15, and midrange at 11.  It seems to run smoother...but I haven't connected any length of track yet...so I am testing on a 3 foot piece.  Later today, I think I will connect 3-4 more pieces to let it stretch its legs a little.  What do you have for your settings?

BTW, I am ordering the LokProgrammer today...I have watched several videos now and it seems much more intuitive than using the handheld.

Go for it Andy - I like your get-stuck-in approach - best way to learn is hands-on.   

The Motor settings page for LS5 DCC decoders in Lokprogrammer has a lot of adjustments you can make to get the smoothest starting and running, as well as the usual speed table.  It can take a bit of trial and error to get a nice result, epsecially when one decoder is trying to control 2 motors at once. 

My motors are wired in series so the final settings may be a bit different for yours in parallel, but here's my best stab at it so far:

And here's my speed settings (my top speed is set really low, about 10 scale MPH, so you can set CV5 higher to get more top speed if needed):

Here's how those settings work on a series-wired Atlas C-424 chassis). The Atlas doesn't start that well, but cleans up after the first few speed steps:

Can you arrange 6 feet of track instead of just 3ft? If so, LS has an "Auto-tune" feature you can use if my settings are way off for you.  But the loco will take off at top speed to do it, and may run more than 3 ft. 

You set CV54 to zero. Then be sure the loco is set to run in the right direction, and hit the bell (F1). The loco will take off like a scalded cat    and then come to a stop a few feet later and ring the bell. The decoder will have set the main motor values to what it thinks works best.

This process doesn't do fine adjustment for the "slow" CVs on the page, but they can be tweaked after to try and smooth out the starting and first few speed steps a bit more.

And down the rabbit hole we go...   

Pete    

Just posted a video of the engine running with sound.  For some reason the sound is off a little, but near the end the engine doesn't sound muted.  I am trying to order the LokProgrammer, but it is out of stock at the first place I tried....the search begins.

That's pretty smooth Andy! 

I think you can get the start to be a bit less sudden. First, make sure your throttle is always set to 128 speed steps.  Then try Try setting "Start Voltage" CV2 to 1.  If the loco doesn't move, or has a really slow crawl with jerkiness, set CV2 to 2, 3 etc. until you get to the slowest speed where it'll just crawl smoothly at speed step 1. 

As well you can try setting CV3 higher which adds delay to the increase between speed steps. This should reduce the starting jerk a bit. Maybe start at 20 and go up from there to see if you like it.

One neat feature of many LS sound files is the "sound of load" on the prime mover when you go from stopped to speed step 1 (equivalent to going from Idle to Notch 1 in the real thing). This replicates the increased load on the prime mover when the traction motors are energized.

You can hear this in your video at about 40 seconds in.  Of course this will seem even more realistic when you get your ProtoThrottle...     

Pete

I changed CV2 and settled on a value of 3.  I don't notice any jerking in person but looks like a little on the video.

https://drive.google.com/open?...yRTxYTOwFZ42YKQVjn7z

That's pretty good for an Atlas dual-motor drive Andy, nice job! 

I reckon you've come a long way in the 2-rail DCC world given that your first post was only 6 weeks ago. This great hobby has so many facets and so many great people who are ready to share and help, as demonstrated in this thread. 

Keep up the good work!

Pete

Thanks Pete...I can't believe it has only been 6 weeks since I started this!  I picked up a new set of engines this week...should get them on Saturday... Sunset FTA&FTB units.  I am curious to run them and see how they are...They are supposed to be new, but don't know what year they are from.

I need to call a few places and see if the lokprogrammer is in stock.  A few places I have contacted are out of stock.

My next adventure is painting some brass freight cars I picked up...and also trying to add Kadee couplers to the brass cars.   I am gathering twigs to make a "Log load" for another brass pulpwood car I picked up to be similar to the ACL pulpwood car I have.

Update: I ordered a LokProgrammer today (4/9/20) and it shipped.  Hope to get it Saturday, but probably Monday.

The best part of my carpet layout I set up is that I am playing with switching 3 cars using 4 engines...makes it a challenge to move them back and forth and get them in the order I want them in.  The "layout" is two sets of tracks with two #5 switches and is a total of 12' long.  So now I see how much fun a wider switching layout will be and how challenging it is going to be.  I am also learning the DCC system a little better.