I'm thinking of dabbling in 2 rail...(UPDATE--I dove in Head First)

I'm a long time user of NCE DCC gear and a big fan of their robustness and relative simplicity.  On my railroad (2200') I operate with a 10 amp radio PowerPro (radio)  system.  Initially I had  a single 10 amp booster, as operations intensified over time I added 3 more boosters (now 4 power districts )each with its own fast acting PSX circuit breaker.  Later still I purchased a NCE PowerCab for the purpose of testing and configuring  locomotives on a workbench roller stand.  Soon after I shipped the PowerCab back to NCE for a $90 radio upgrade.  With the upgrade the PowerCab functions just like all my other my other radio  ProCabs on the railroad during operating sessions, while retaining the capability to run as a self contained "plug-in" DCC system on the workbench..

  To answer the question in the post above I unplugged the  NCE 10 amp boosters from the layout and clip leaded the output of the PowerCab to one of the power districts.  For the test I ran a  AtlasO EMD switcher (Tsunami2 2200 2 amp sound decoder) pulling a 16 car freight.  The cars were a mix of brass and plastic models weighted to around 16 oz.  The PowerCab easily ran the train back and forth within the power district.  Then I remembered a neat feature of the PowerCab that I hadn't used in some time.  With a couple of button clicks I was able to set up the PowerCab to display real time current draw.  I then reran the test train.   During the runs the peak current draw shown on the display was 1.1 amp - well within the 2.5 amp rating of the PowerCab.  The peak readings were very brief and occurred only when the train first started to move.  When rolling down the main the draw was under .6 amp.  

IMO a PowerCab is a great way to start out on a modest sized O scale layout - and if later you want to run a couple of relatively efficient multiple unit diesels it can be upgraded to a 5 amp system.    

Joe - With NCE PowerCab output is set at 12 volts - which is more than enough to run most of today's o scale 2 rail locomotives at prototype speeds on a small layout.  The voltage output of the 10 amp NCE PowerPro system is adjustable. I set mine at 16v.  Perhaps the single biggest advantage for DCC over propriety systems is the competition among vendors for our business.  We're not stuck with one brand and the vendors continue to offer decoders with new features that are backward compatible with our existing systems.  

Right on Ed.   It's good to hear your current draw measurements are similar to mine! 

I run my DCC track at ~15V because I have TCS Keep-Alives on all decoders and TCS rates them up to 16V. 

I agree DCC 12V should be fine for trying out one Atlas single or dual-motored loco. However I wouldn't try an older Pittman-powered drive on DCC 12V unless a >5A booster was available and the loco had a suitable high-current decoder installed.

If you can make The March Meet in Lombard you ought to get answers to most of your questions.  Rolling stock, engines and track are available from the most modestly priced to $4,000 locomotives. Used to new.  John in Lansing, ILL

You guys are awesome and have given me GREAT information.  I really appreciate it.

So I will go to the show next weekend and look for some locos to test and see if I can "play" with an NCE system.  That would be nice!  

So this is what I am thinking...find a loco, buy the 2 AMP NCE system (might end up using it on a switching HO layout down the road.)  If I can't find a good loco for testing, I may buy an MTH -2 diesel.  That way I could run it on 2 rail and if I decide to stay with 3 rail, make it run on 3 rail as @AGHRMatt does above.

I am excited about the show next weekend...I think they are having some clinics also.

Keystoned Ed posted:

I'm a long time user of NCE DCC gear and a big fan of their robustness and relative simplicity.  On my railroad (2200') I operate with a 10 amp radio PowerPro (radio)  system.  Initially I had  a single 10 amp booster, as operations intensified over time I added 3 more boosters (now 4 power districts )each with its own fast acting PSX circuit breaker.  Later still I purchased a NCE PowerCab for the purpose of testing and configuring  locomotives on a workbench roller stand.  Soon after I shipped the PowerCab back to NCE for a $90 radio upgrade.  With the upgrade the PowerCab functions just like all my other my other radio  ProCabs on the railroad during operating sessions, while retaining the capability to run as a self contained "plug-in" DCC system on the workbench..

  To answer the question in the post above I unplugged the  NCE 10 amp boosters from the layout and clip leaded the output of the PowerCab to one of the power districts.  For the test I ran a  AtlasO EMD switcher (Tsunami2 2200 2 amp sound decoder) pulling a 16 car freight.  The cars were a mix of brass and plastic models weighted to around 16 oz.  The PowerCab easily ran the train back and forth within the power district.  Then I remembered a neat feature of the PowerCab that I hadn't used in some time.  With a couple of button clicks I was able to set up the PowerCab to display real time current draw.  I then reran the test train.   During the runs the peak current draw shown on the display was 1.1 amp - well within the 2.5 amp rating of the PowerCab.  The peak readings were very brief and occurred only when the train first started to move.  When rolling down the main the draw was under .6 amp.  

IMO a PowerCab is a great way to start out on a modest sized O scale layout - and if later you want to run a couple of relatively efficient multiple unit diesels it can be upgraded to a 5 amp system.    

Thanks for a great post Ed!  It is really appreciated.  You guys have been great at pointing me in the right direction.  I am super excited!

Keystoned Ed posted:

Joe - With NCE PowerCab output is set at 12 volts - which is more than enough to run most of today's o scale 2 rail locomotives at prototype speeds on a small layout.  The voltage output of the 10 amp NCE PowerPro system is adjustable. I set mine at 16v.  

Wait! What? You point out 12 volts is enough but you run at 16 volts? 

Why?

For a small  starter layout running scale speeds appropriate to tight curves and short runs you don’t need 18 volts on the rails.  I’ve set the adjustable boosters on my layout to 16 v  and it is rare that we come close to running at the max DCC speed step on a multi track  main line with 30 car freights and 12 car passenger trains.  Typically we run the freights at about 40 scale mph - around 2/3  throttle for most of my locomotives.  IMO the trains run and look better at more modest scale speeds.  The AtlasO switcher ran beautifully with 12 volts DCC on the rails.   No question - if you  like high speed running  you need more that 12 volts.

With DCC one issue is estimating how much current capacity you need for full operations on a large layout.  That depends on factors such as the current draw of the locomotives you run, the number of locomotives running at the same time, train length, grades, and other power demands like smoke and passenger car lights.  The good news is that today’s  2 rail models are generally less current hogs than in earlier times - and we have a lot more choices in control systems to operate them.   

Interesting to note that Tony Koester went with a NCE PowerCab for his P48 switching  layout featured in that other model railroading magazine.

clem k posted:

Where is the battery in a BPRC system ?

Clem, all my steamers have the battery in the tender, diesels are inside on the chassis. The 9.6v battery I use is 1.1"x1.1"x4.5".  I've never tried a smaller battery (size or voltage).  I run at fairly slow speeds (usually under 60smph) and a lesser volt battery may work just as well, I don't know for sure.  The 11.1 LiPo batteries are a bit larger and I use a 12v battery in the Williams/Samhongsa 4-8-4 and I believe one other. I go to All-Battery to determine which one will work, and usually find them on Amazon cheaper than what they are direct once shipping/tax is included.  These batteries are good for several hundred if not 1,000 charges.  I haven't had to replace one yet.

I wasn't sure how any of these would run with only a 9.6v battery, but they're just as fast as when they were under DCS/TMCC 18+ volts.  I don't know what voltage actually gets to the motors using DCS/TMCC but I don't think it's over 12dc, but I could be wrong.

If you can follow an electrical schematic and do basic soldering you should be good to go.  But there are a few places that will do the install for you.

Here's a basic wiring diagram for BPRC:

Here's one I drew for when I use the Deltang receiver and the BIK-U3 kit that consists of the on/off switch, charging jack, and fuses:

Deltang Rx65b receiver. Now I get them from Micro Radio Control in the UK and get the ones that are pre-wired.  I believe the latest version is the Rx65c, I haven't bought one in a year or 2 (ruler in photo is in cm/mm):

RCS Australia BIK-U3 assy:

Just for clarity, I don't run at higher voltage for speed. I do it to help with power draw. Engines seem to run better and cooler. There is less trouble with burning or arcing then. Just my opinion. 

When in HO I ran Digitrax, but wish I had of used NCE, much more user friendly.  However, both systems interfaces are old and haven't been updated in 20 years roughly.  I would also highly consider ESU's Cab control system.  Has touchscreen interface and a thumb wheel for tactile feedback, best of both worlds and the interface is so much more intuitive and clean.

However, battery power and RC is the direction I am going.  I am just about sold on Ring Engineering's Railpro system.  It can run track or battery power and while it is separate from DCC can also take DCC signals now if running track power.  A loco could be setup to run off either with a switch if one so wished to do so.

@TexasSP  Thanks for the response.  I have been leaning towards NCE (actually have a bid on one on Ebay right now).  I assume NCE and Digitrax hasn't changed is because DCC is standard...but I looked at the ESU system and it looks pretty good also.  Wonder if their base system will run O scale ..I didn't see how many AMPs their basic system was.  I was looking at the NCE 5 AMP to start since I have nothing yet..and will start with one engine probably no sound then upgrade to another 5 AMP if I go full on 2 rail.

Anyone here run the ESU system?  I saw that @SANTIAGOP23 does...the non handheld system (other than phone).  I watched a few of his videos...was very informative and looks like a good system.  

My main complaint with MTH is them losing the handheld remote.  I don't think I want a touchscreen/phone to run trains.  I do like the tactile feel of my Legacy remote now...and NCE looks similar.

Andy,

I've been using the ESU CabControl system since it came out. The built-in booster is 7A. That's plenty for what you want to do.  I added a second booster, also 7A which is their standard now.  Overall it's a great system imho.

However there's an important caveat: I found the first version of the MCII wireless handheld throttle that's included to be a great concept but poorly executed.  So did others from what I've read. It has a slow processor and runs a really old Android version: 4.1.x.  The wireless connection stability and operating speed are vey poor. I sold 2 of my 3 MCIIs when my ProtoThrottles arrived and the last MCII is just for managing track power etc. No one likes to use it for ops.

But recently ESU has launched a new version of the MCII with a much faster processor, more memory and running Android 6.x.  From what I've read online this solves all the issues.  So I would make sure to get the new version.

Plus if you use Loksound decoders as well, you can get the benefit of Railcom. 

But then you don't get NCE's great consisting feature of course.  Trade-offs... 

MTH's system updates for free in your home. So you can stay up to date with the latest features. The system sells $$ for less as a whole than others do. It has features built in that other systems don't have and some can't even do. No separate programmers needed.

 There are many positives to the system that guided my decision years ago. I stand by it still. When another system impresses me enough to leave, I will. Nothing has yet. DCC lags behind though many users will brag over one or two features that are advanced. I look at everything, not just the latest feature. I did not find Digitrax hard to use. I liked it a lot. I disliked how long it took to develop decoders with sounds capable of good power handling for the larger scales. I think that Loksound had the best. I just couldn't get it to work with my G scale back then.

 There was a rush just a few years back to go with another company in G scale offering better sounds ( supposedly). The boards fault was it couldn't handle the power. You had to provide on board cooling fan for operation. For some battery guys, that was no good. For me, it pointed to poor engineering. You can't have excess heat handled that way. I didn't even like the sounds. It didn't sound real, and I could identify it with my eyes closed.

 I'm sure someday soon battery will get together with wireless control and be what it can be. Until some big players get involved, I don't think it's there yet. I don't understand why when it' already in so many other things.

 When you pick a system, you have to deal with it's faults. Every system I've seen, has them. So pick your poison. The simple fact that so many users use different brands must tell us something.

Joe, 10 years ago you would be fairly correct.  However now, DCC has come a long way.  The ESU system is really nice, and has simplified and added to the abilities of DCC.  The Railpro system by all accounts is well ahead of many others in a variety of areas, especially loco consisting.

Right on Joe. DCS is a great system for sure. Some of the MTH sound packages are amazing, especially steam.  

The ESU CabControl ICU and MCII can also be updated online or with downloads, same as the Loskound decoders. But the problem with the early MCII was hardware - processor and memory - unfortunately.   

I dabbled with battery power and wireless DCC but converted the motor to coreless so I could use smaller batteries and an HO-rated decoder, rather than beef up the decoder and batteries to power a Pittman can motor. 

Seemed like a good idea at the time, and it all fit in an MP15AC (just). But I outsmarted myself because I couldn't get a good wireless signal in a brass loco shell, and the power converter for the smaller batteries only provided 11V to the decoder, which wasn't a good match for my exisiting DCC 15.5V track power. 

TEXASSP: From what I've seen the Railpro system seems a long way ahead on the control side with wireless loco-to-loco communications, but their sound files are limited so far.

If we could only combine the best 2-3 features of each system in one package we'd rule the world! 

Thanks guys....this is fun learning and reading about all the DCC systems.

I have no doubt DCS is a great system for 2 rail and 3 rail, but I really only want one system controlling my trains...so if I went to DCS, I would be limited to MTH engines only.  If I go anyones DCC I can run any 2 rail engine with DCC even -2 MTH engines especially with P3 and scale wheels.

I can't decide which system to get, but I am going to have fun figuring it out.  I do know I want wireless.  Even though NCE and DigiTrax can have multiple connections across the layout, wireless is nice...and to me worth the extra expense.

If ESU is 7 AMPS and come wireless at ~$389 vs NCE 5 AMP system wireless at $550...the NCE would have to be head and shoulder better to justify the $200 difference...

For those that have ESU, is it easy to add another 7 AMPs of power for future upgrade?  I saw a video of the NCE and it is plug and play (I think).

the ESU system is much more than $389.  I have NCE in my HO equipment and have been toying with the idea of adding it to my 3 rail and dumping TMCC and DCS. DCC is far ahead of TMCC and MTH DCS is just a cheap china   built rip off of the NCE system right down to the radio freq they use. DCS has many loyal followers but personally I know no one who has much luck with it including myself. the only thing i use mine for anymore is to run conventional stuff via the variable output. I like ESU decoders though as you install them once and can download any sound file from them as well as upgrades. DCC also has the advantage of the fact that you can use anybodys sound or loco decoders with any bodys DCC system.

Andy, I added a 7A booster, plug and play. 

Rick, the CabControl system can be had for US$ 389.95 at the larger DCC retailers. It comes with one MCII.  

Rick Rubino posted:

 MTH DCS is just a cheap china   built rip off of the NCE system right down to the radio freq they use. DCS has many loyal followers but personally I know no one who has much luck with it including myself. 

This would take this post way off topic in proper responses.

If you can't get it to work, I have to say that you first need to understand how it works. If you're not interested that's fine too. I don't think bashing it makes you look any better here. There are plenty of satisfied users. 

It works for me. It can be frustrating when it doesn't. It's usually something overlooked. Maybe I could help you?

Many people prefer systems that are bullet proof. There's not many that I've come across. Each has issues and a need for understanding. Poor wiring practices can make running big consists ****. They show you where your wiring is bad. Ground planes, snubbers, etc., etc., makes battery more enticing! 

The DCS system is very good. It has quirks like every other. The frequency it uses was common at the time, doesn't make it a copy 9f NCE. But, both Lionel and DCS are falling behind what DCC is doing now. DCC has its limitations too though. 

As for Railpro they have a great sound selection for diesel but are limited in steam. Tim Ring told me via email his is working on that right now though. The sounds I have heard are excellent and you can add your own custom sounds. 

There are no perfect systems and everything is a trade off in some area.  However if you use DCC you can get decoders and sounds for any scale and any loco.  Railpro serves HO through G and is working on N. DCS is O and MTH HO only.  Depends on your wants and needs.

I think we can all agree...whichever system we use DCC or DCS it is better than it was before digital control was invented.

Since I am going to "dabble" price is a big part of getting my feet wet.  Obviously, I still want a good DCC system.  I don't think I can go wrong with NCE or ESU.  Right now I am thinking of using ESU mainly because of cost...I would only buy a new one to make sure I got the latest version of handheld/android.

I am going to the O scale 2 rail show in Atlanta this weekend...hope to get lots more information on all things 2 rail!

This has been a great discussion of the many different control systems and methods use to power our trains.  Much appreciated for all the insights. 

While these astute gentleman have given you much to digest about 2 rail control systems, consider that 3 rail has that ridiculous looking black center rail which DOES prominently stand out.  I live with this on my layout...never looks correct....and i still wince whenever i run the trains. I vote that you go to 2 rail....it's more realistic.

TexasSP posted:

 DCS is O and MTH HO only.  Depends on your wants and needs.

DCS is also in the almost all but forgotten MTH S Scale product line.

Rusty

I would also add that I am probably one of the few here that use the MRC Prodigy 2 system.  It may not be as sophisticated as NCE or others, but it suits my needs.  I run Lionel/Flyer, MTH and Tsunami equipped S scale locomotives with no issues.  An added benefit is the common instructions are printed on the back of the handhelds, just in case I forget.

Rusty

redjimmy1955 posted:

While these astute gentleman have given you much to digest about 2 rail control systems, consider that 3 rail has that ridiculous looking black center rail which DOES prominently stand out.  I live with this on my layout...never looks correct....and i still wince whenever i run the trains. I vote that you go to 2 rail....it's more realistic.

The 3rd rail...that is what got me to thinking about 2 rail in the first place.  Maybe if I had started with O back in the day the 3rd rail would not bother me as much as it does, but I started with HO and am used to seeing 2 rails.  Since I run a carpet layout right now, the 3rd rail sticks out like a sore thumb to me.  I can't ballast my carpet!  

I love my Lionel Legacy Southern Crescent Steam engine..the whistle smoke, the sounds, etc, but I just can't get around the center rail.  I can live with the lobster claw couplers...but have already started looking into converting my 3 rail freight cars to 2 rail...

I have been talking to my wife about all of this...her eyes glaze over I am sure.  I told her I was going to buy some 2 rail stuff and try it out.  She said, I thought you were leaning in that direction anyway.

I even thought about going back to HO...but the beauty of 2 rail o scale is if I decide to run my HO (I am going to add a decoder in at least one engine), I can use whatever DCC system I buy to run my HO if I ever wanted.  Just swap some wires from one track to the other.  

Not sure how this thread (because I asked many questions) became a DCC systems thread, but I am enjoying it immensely.  

Rusty Traque posted:

TexasSP posted:

 DCS is O and MTH HO only.  Depends on your wants and needs.

DCS is also in the almost all but forgotten MTH S Scale product line.

Rusty

and one gauge! I get a chuckle out of some posts. Maybe bent reality to get a point across?

Andy:  Congratulations on considering going to 2 rail.  It sounds like you are like a lot of us…While you can make a spectacular layout in 3 rail and many have!, if you just can’t get past that center raiI, the bigger wheels and/or the huge couplers, then 2 rail is a mus

You are getting a lot of advice to go to DCC, and I am not going to even try and talk you out of it, particularly with your desire to have one system for both your HO and future O scale system.   But I’d like to point out that DCS /TMCC is a perfectly valid approach

I have a modest size (31 x 20 foot layout) which is controlled by DCS, While all but one of my locomotives run on DCS, I actually have very few MTH locomotives.  To get the PS3 “decoder” I buy the least expensive MTH RailKing Locomotive that has the sound set I want. The DCS system is the same between the Railking and Premier lines. I pull the DCS system and then sell the RK loco. My net cost is usually about $100.00 for a PS3 system

I also have TMCC to control one locomotive that I did not want to convert to DCS. A set of Lionel Legacy Sharks, which really liked the sound set.  TMCC and DCS are entirely compatable.

I "test drove" several types of control systems, manyof which are discussed, here before choosing DCS. I did so for a number of reasons, such as I like the feedback and the simple display on the handheld that saves me the trouble of remembering anything. But for me, the biggest advantage is I run heavy Pennsy Electrics, and DCS has by far and away the largest number of appropriate sounds

@John Sethian  Thanks, You gave a lot of information I don't think I knew.  I didn't really know you could run TMCC/Legacy in 2 rail, but I guess it makes sense...if the drive gear is 2 rail, then it can be controlled by TMCC.  I have seen some Atlas 2 rail locos that said TMCC, but didn't really know that's what it was.

I have one Atlas Diesel GP35 SAV&ATL that I want to keep, so I would love to convert to 2 rail, but I "assumed" I would put DCC in...and I probably will.  I could sell my Legacy 990 for decent money which will help pay for the new DCC system... (If I completely come over).  I am hoping I can test drive a DCC system or 2 this weekend before buying one.

Part of what I really like about DCC are the sounds...I am not a huge fan of crew talk in Lionel/MTH locos, but love the sounds from the ESU sound decoders.

Tonight I have been watching video and reading about converting MTH freight cars to scale wheels and Kadee couplers...pretty easy it seems since the premier line has the mounting points.  I bought my first 2 rail freight car on ebay the other night.  It will arrive Monday/Tuesday.

My mistake on MTH in S and G, however they have so little in those areas I had forgotten.

I love my DCS, but it really limits you.

OK going to my first 2 rail show tomorrow.  What should I be looking for as my first pieces of 2 rail...I have a wish list of Track, an engine, and to play with DCC systems.  

TexasSP posted:

My mistake on MTH in S and G, however they have so little in those areas I had forgotten.

I love my DCS, but it really limits you.

this whole post is just opinions and unfortunately, the facts are few. All we can do is try to keep it real. I have around 100 engines on hand at a given time. I run what I want, when I want.

 So how am I limited? and why do you ( and others) seem to keep bashing it?

How limited is DCC that you have to send the command system in for upgrades? that DCC decoder development has taken so long and now is supposedly ahead? Just how much $$ has to be invested to realize that potential?

I don't wish to sound like a salesman. I end up defending my choice over and over. I have to wonder why the spiteful comments come up so much against systems. I can't help but feel much of it, is from lack of understanding. I just try and clarify what this system can and can't do. I see other posters glossing over each system's flaws. I know what they are and don't wish to attack them. Just point out what can be misleading. Like buying batteries that a year later need replacing with extensive use. I have a pile of old cordless tools laying here to prove my point. Yet I like battery power and don't condemn anyone for going that way.

 So why do others seem like they are so against DCS use? Don't use it. I'm OK with that. Don't post untrue facts about it or I will have to defend it. I hate public forums more and more each day.

roll_the_dice posted:

OK going to my first 2 rail show tomorrow.  What should I be looking for as my first pieces of 2 rail...I have a wish list of Track, an engine, and to play with DCC systems.  

Enjoy. One note on MTH rolling stock. The older rolling stock didn't have Kadee mounting pads, but you can still convert them with minor modification (a little drilling, gluing a spacer in. On the early Auto Racks and 73-foot Centerbeam flats, you have to cut sections out of the chassis to move the trucks to their proper location, but it's not hard. Microfasterners.com will become your new best friend for 2-56 and 2mmx8 screws and nuts.

Andy, just

Seriously - my $0.02 worth: If you are OK with a Diesel first, then maybe a plastic 2-rail loco such as Atlas SW, MP15DC, GP7-9-35.  Those can be run on a NCE Powercab. 

If you fall for a plastic or brass loco with a Pittman or similar large can motor then the ESU CabControl system with its 7A booster would be a better bet.  The decoder for such motors will cost between 1.5 and 2x the HO one you could use in the Atlas locos. Examples of this type could be Weaver RS3, or GP38-2 which can be had cheap, but check they are complete and run well. Don't buy an older loco with an open frame motor unless you are up for a re-motoring project before you can run with DCC.

DON'T buy a DCC decoder until you have bought the loco. Then tell us what you bought and we can recommend the right deocder models you can choose from.

Freight cars: Weaver and "Old Atlas" freight cars can be had cheaply but are lower detail.  New Atlas freight cars are generally very nice and priced accordingly. MTH and Lionel have some nice scale-sized cars that can be converted easily to 2-rail, noting Matt's good point about the coupler pads. 

You may need a few packs of Kadee couplers to convert with.  And you may see Atlas, MTH and Lionel 2-rail conversion kits of just wheelsets or complete trucks for any conversions needed.   

Track-wise, there's "old Atlas" which is a bit clunky but quite usable. That comes in flex sections and #6 (approx) LH and RH switches. Black ties and chunky details are the clue.  Usually some used stuff at shows. It's from the 1970s and '80s so check the quality if used.  Don't buy the oldest Atlas ~24" switches as they are too tight for the above locos. 

New Atlas - brown ties and better detail - comes in flex sections and about 4 radii of sectional track. Plus #5 and #7.5 LH, RH and Y turnouts.  More realistic and more expensive.

There are a couple of new makes of 2-rail and P:48 turnouts, Signature Switch Co and O Scale Turnouts. Both are excellent in slightly different ways and cost about the same as new Atlas.    

My wallet is already whimpering in sympathy with yours - have fun!!  

Thanks @AGHRMatt ... I have some newer MTH cars that have the pads and Iam compiling a list of items I need to convert them.  Do you buy the scale trucks or just change out the wheelsets?

I suggest viewing Ebay under Model Trains for estimating cost . I started with an Atlas SW8/9 2 rail and 4 Atlas 2 rail box cars. My most pleasant surprise recently was the Atlas Trainman ESU CSX 8-40CW locomotive. Personally I buy only Atlas O 2 rail products.

Joe, not sure why you take different opinions and information as bashing. I have and use DCS. I don't hate nor bash it. I don't have brand loyalty,  I use what fits my wants/needs best.  Most DCC systems do not require they be sent in for updates now. The ESU systems ate mind blowing in features and their decoders are second to none for any digital system on the market today.  I have used DCS to run MTH HO.

There is no wrong answer to any of this. Not sure why anyone would get worked up over these discussions.

I am thankful there are so many great options today.  It's like Baskin Robbins,  don't like chocolate, well there's 30 more flavors.