Last night I inquired from a dealer about an MTH Premier ABA engine set from 2004, which the MTH web site said the dealer had in inventory. The reply was the set was $729.00, the original full retail was $649.00.
Has anyone dealt with this before, I’ve never worked with a dealer who raises prices on existing inventory to match similar item pricing in the current catalog.
Thanks,
Jason
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Wow.....so something that hasn't moved in 8 years is going to cost more than it originally did......
I guess I'm just spoiled here in Richmond......I use Chesterfield Hobbies in Midlothian.....that would not occur there.
Peter
Buyer Beware
Are these not out of warranty? I do not know if MTH has a new old stock warranty policy.
Do they have a 5 volt board? They changed around 04 to a 3v board.
They should not do this as it not an apples to apples comparison.
Any chance this dealer is in North Carolina? I have had similar experiences there. I suspect thats why the items are still on the shelves.
Pete
Happens most of the time as track & accessories prices rise shop prices are adjusted. Check food & clothes prices usually not stamped they reprint the sign on the shelves & hit the computer button to adjust items overnight.
Get this. Modeling a sugar refinery in the future so I'm looking for Domino sugar tank cars. Found a funnel type car released by MTH (Premier) in 2004 by an ebay seller. MSRP on this car is $49.95. The guy on ebay was selling said car for $101.99! No that is not a typo! I placed an offer in for $49.99...waiting to hear back, but I'm expecting nothing. I get it you want to make a buck. But this item probably has been on their shelves for some time, purchased well below MSRP and they expect a sale with a what 100% + markup? No thanks!
Jason.....more money and no warranty......If it was me, I would wait.....it will likely be made in PS 3 at some point.
Peter
Last night I inquired from a dealer about an MTH Premier ABA engine set from 2004, which the MTH web site said the dealer had in inventory. The reply was the set was $729.00, the original full retail was $649.00.
Has anyone dealt with this before, I’ve never worked with a dealer who raises prices on existing inventory to match similar item pricing in the current catalog.
Thanks,
Jason
If they have had it on the shelf for 9 years it is dead stock. Dead stock is not even worth its original MRSP.
We used to do this on common items like track and some accesories or even starter sets that were completely the same and had the same item number from year to year. But items like locomotives and rolling stock usually have different features, rod numbers and stocking numbers and we would not raise prices on items like that. We probably would not have had items that old unless they were taken in a trade, a collection we bought or were on consignment.
If you want that item from that dealer you pay his price!! Myself i would look elsewhere.
Gunny
All that matters is what someone is willing to pay today. If that is higher or lower than original MSRP, so be it.
Basing a decision on how much you spent in the past is known in economics as the "fallacy of sunk costs."
Now the fact that the dealer has had it on the shelf for over 8 years suggests he doesn't have much idea of what people are really willing to pay.
Last night I inquired from a dealer about an MTH Premier ABA engine set from 2004, which the MTH web site said the dealer had in inventory. The reply was the set was $729.00, the original full retail was $649.00.
Has anyone dealt with this before, I’ve never worked with a dealer who raises prices on existing inventory to match similar item pricing in the current catalog.
Thanks,
Jason
That's a bit extreme, in my opinion.
But I get a kick out of a garden center in the Sharon, PA area that sells trains. Get this (was true as of 2010): I walked into the train department and there's a PS-1 version of an MTH PRR G5 steamer right next door to a PS-2 version of the same locomotive. The price? An identical $699.99 (MSRP).
Some poor devil could walk in and buy the PS-1 version (11 years old at the time), put it on the track, and get the 3 clanks of death as a bonus. 
Brilliant! I guess "caveat emptor" applies.
George
Raising the price on commodity items makes sense. An old engine is not a commodity item. If anything, they need to the cut price so they can sell it and get some PS3.0 stock in.
Mike
If you want to stay in business you have to charge based on replacement cost. Doesn't matter when you bought it or how much it cost at that time. It's what it costs to replace that matters. I can't believe these complaints. Get over it!
Pete
Ebay is all about getting whatever price the market will bear. But if you are looking for NOS on an item as I was a year ago, take heed. One dealer wanted $50.00 more than MSRP MTH catalog price. I said how can you be charging more that MSRP. He said, "It's rare". I can assure you it was not a rare item, so I told him good luck with that and bought from a dealer who had a better grip on reality.
I have visited a number of shops that raise their prices on old stock. It's their merchandise and their business to run as they please. No one is forced to make a purchase.
If you want to stay in business you have to charge based on replacement cost. Doesn't matter when you bought it or how much it cost at that time. It's what it costs to replace that matters. I can't believe these complaints. Get over it!
Pete
The store owner can do what he/she wants, but as customers they have the right to be upset by such a policy. The replacement cost holds for a comparable product, but in the example given, it is not:
-8 year old old stock will not have a warranty on it in the case of trains. If the engine was otherwise the same as equivalent new one, you could argue that, but in this case, selling a unit that is older without a warranty for the same price as a unit with a warranty is idiotic. The key word is comparable product. A piece of tubular track from 8 years ago isn't going to be all that different from one bough today, so replacement cost would hold, as might a piece of rolling stock or something, and that would make sense.
And then when the feature set is different, for example, selling an older ps2 model at the same price as a modern ps3, that is nothing but greedy deception, getting someone to buy what is in effect an obsolete unit at the price of a more modern version is in effect fooling them.
-If the guy after 8 years is thinking replacement cost, he is likely to be even further in the hole. General rule of any kind of store is inventory has carrying costs, and to have the unit for 8 years means he already is taking a bath on the cost of carrying it so long, so he is increasing his loss the longer he has it, and waiting to sell it at 'modern prices' is likely to end up with a dusty shelf hogger.
The equivalent is in computers, if a computer store has a unit with an older intel processor and only 4 gig of memory, if he tried to sell that unit at a price that would buy the next generation of processor, more memory, etc, it is likely he won't be able to sell it, because it would be obvious it wasn't worth it.
Comparable unit cost in other words only works if the units are really comparable, not if the older unit is less desirable/obsolete.
CW,
This happens all the time, one of the trains it hit hard was the Pittsburgh Steelers Super Bowl Train, P2 originally $499 now you can't get one for less than $600 plus, NIB
PCRR/Dave
Dealers like this guy are the ones who wonder why they can't survive in today's market. If that set sat on his shelves for more than 8 years, he's lost money no matter what price he gets for the engine. Retail stock has to turn over regularly to make a profit.
In my opinion, the real value of that loco is somewhere around 60-70% of original retail and you can probably find one at York for that price.
The good news is you will never have to worry about another Super Bowl Train in Picksburg!!! The bad news is next week we will see several new threads about some poor Local Hobby shop going out of business...
Guys...quick update! I placed an offer on that $101.99 MTH (2004) Premier tank car on eBay and was very shocked to find my $49.99 (MSRP) offer was rejected. Hope that guy is waiting for awhile because at that price it will sit there forever.
hello guys and gals..........
Just walk away, toy trains and GREED don't mix.
the woman who loves the S.F.5011
Tiffany
The good news Jason is you in fact control the price that "you" are willing to pay. If you want the item bad enough, you will have to pay what the market is willing to bear. The dealer always has the option to charge whatever he wants and you have the option to let him keep it if you believe the price is unfair. Simply put, this is business in it's purest form.
The Customer has the final say in any business deal.
If enough customers are put off by what they consider
overpriced merchandise by a retailer, they'll take their
business elsewhere.
Eventually the retailer will bring his prices down to what
customers are willing to pay or they'll choose to go out
of business. If they choose to go out of business they will
complain that the customers are too cheap to buy from them
or blame online dealers.
I owned a jewelry business for many years.
I learned from an older jeweler, when I bought his stock when he
retired to never increase your original price on an item.
Your customers will see the various prices and know that
they're getting a deal on old stock. When they ask you to order
something you don't have in stock, they're willing to pay the current
price for something new.
You will always have return customers and you get the best free
advertising available, when the customer tells friends & acquaintances
that they got a extremely good deal at xyz's business and they
should shop there.
This dealer has done this kind of pricing for years. About 6 or 7 years ago, I inquired about an engine they had in stock, that was 2 or 3 years old at the time. They informed me that they wanted about $200 above the original M.S.R.P. I eventually found the same engine at another dealer for about $150 less than the M.S.R.P. or about $350 less than what they wanted.
As others have said, it's their stuff, so I guess they can ask what they want. They just won't be getting any of my money. There are too many dealers out there with fair pricing and good service. Sometimes you just have to look a little longer to find what what you want at a fair price.
The good news Jason is you in fact control the price that "you" are willing to pay. If you want the item bad enough, you will have to pay what the market is willing to bear.
That's it, in a nutshell! A seller can ask anything he cares to. You, as a prospective buyer, can pay it or walk away. It's really VERY simple!
I have sought and bought several items over the years that I willingly paid far more than MSRP for simply because I wanted the items and they were darn near impossible to find in the condition I insisted on. No big deal and I'm still very happy with the purchases.
I could just as easily have walked away and waited months or years for those items to turn up again, but I followed the course that worked best for me.
Interesting thread. If he is attempting to pass it off as the new one then shame on him and he doesn't deserve to be in business. If he figures what the heck, I'll just hold onto it for my price then good luck. If he actually sells an 8 year old piece and then turns around and reorders it, well I wouldn't expect him to stay in business that long. At my musical Instrument store there is some older inventory I would gladly take a loss on to move and some things that I hold my price on. Supply and Demand is the final deciding factor. My LHS has a Sealed Lionel Coca Cola set on his wall for $425. Sooner or later someone may give him that for it. Perhaps he put more than he should of in it but I found my sealed set for around $150. Ya just never know.
The good news Jason is you in fact control the price that "you" are willing to pay. If you want the item bad enough, you will have to pay what the market is willing to bear.
That's it, in a nutshell! A seller can ask anything he cares to. You, as a prospective buyer, can pay it or walk away. It's really VERY simple!
I have sought and bought several items over the years that I willingly paid far more than MSRP for simply because I wanted the items and they were darn near impossible to find in the condition I insisted on. No big deal and I'm still very happy with the purchases.
I could just as easily have walked away and waited months or years for those items to turn up again, but I followed the course that worked best for me.
I also agree with that. The CN tank train add on cars are a prime example. I have wanted them to add to my set for the last 2 years and every time I found one they were in the 100.00 range and above, over double original MSRP. But that's what they go for and just difficult to find in MIB. So last month I bit the bullet and just paid it. No regrets. I did monitor prices for a long time to make sure I was in the ballpark. Each item is different.
CW,
This happens all the time, one of the trains it hit hard was the Pittsburgh Steelers Super Bowl Train, P2 originally $499 now you can't get one for less than $600 plus, NIB
PCRR/Dave
Don't know if this is the one that you are talking about but Sidetrack Hobbies has a premier ES44AC Diesel Freight Set 20-20047-1 for $399 original (MSRP $649). Looks like a good deal if you are into these kinds of trains.
Thank goodness I'm a Cincinnati Bengals fan...
I've not owned a retail business, I've been an importer for about a dozen years. In my business the price we agree to with the wholesale customer is based upon what my production, tooling, and shipping costs are with a reasonable margin factored in, no bearing of what future costs will be, the answer is always higher than today.
In the past few years with all the changes and shift sands of costs in China, there have been more than a few times when the goods arrived here, worth more than when the left the factory in China 30/45 days prior, where there was a material or labor increase between production and landing. We could have charged more, but why, we already had a solid agreed upon price and had made our money -- asking for a higher wholesale just because the next order would cost more feels like greed in my book. I've always taken care of my customers, they are too tough to get, even with us doubling the company every year from 07 through 2010, they are still tough to come by in a competitive market place.
I thought perhaps there was something profoundly different in the hobby market that would have this practice mainstream, something I was missing or just did not understand. Other than a classic supply and demand issue, I have a couple sets of K-Line 21" which I paid dearly for, well above MSRP, but those are in short supply with a high demand these days. Somewhat common modern engine sets with electronics which quickly become dated, don't seem to fall into this category, much like my 2007 vintage iPhone, was awesome then, a paperweight now.
Thanks to all.
The product is their property and they can price it as high as they want, I just hope the dealer will get used to the fact that he will have to live with it for most of the rest of his life.
Andrew
I recently found a PS-1 from 1999 on MTH's website in a roadname I like
It showed to be in inventory at a local shop.MSRP from 1999 was $229.00
I went there,spoke to the owner off to the side.
Said that I noticed you have a PS-1 from 1999 in stock,
Since it's been sitting around so long,would you be interested in getting rid of it
because I'm ready to buy'
He said first let me make sure it's there,which it was
Came back,worked the calculater,wrote down $160.00.
Fair price,bought it
After eyeballing that engine and looking for it for a while,
Of course,weeks later I find TWO,for sale,One on E bay,one on here
O well,still happy with the price I got.
Through consumer reports and research,I try to search for and investigate most things I buy,thanks to the web,
but at some point you have to buy and not look back.
While I'm on the subject,and we are all using computers here,here's one of the best deals around,this company
The next time there is a post on the closing of a LHS, complete with whining and hand-wringing, remember this post. Shop owners like this are not uncommon. Fred
IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW BAD YOU WANT THE ITEM OTHERWISE, JUST SAY NO!!!
AsI've said so many times before: There are no "unfair" prices on items like toy trains. A seller can ask anything he cares to, and the decision to buy or not buy is strictly up to the customer. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to complain about pricing online because what may seem like an outrageous price to one person may just be pocket change to another who has been looking for that same item.
And if you've ever frequented antique malls/stores or live auctions, just look at what you might be ask to pay for some old and well-used item that cost next to nothing when it was new a relatively few years ago. It all depends on a how motivated a buyer really is.
It is a free market. The dealer can ask whatever he pleases. The buyer can make an offer, and if refused can go elsewhere. If the dealer's practices are not received well by the market, the store will go out of business. As a prospective buyer, one has the right to point out why a higher price is not justified (no warranty, outdated technology, etc.), and make a reasonable offer, but it is still the dealer's choice as to what price he will sell at.
As for marking up to replacement cost, just visit your local gas station where the price jumps 20 cents/gallon in two days. Nothing magical happened to the gas in the tanks beneath the pumps, but the station owner needs to be able to pay for his next delivery.
I see this all of the time at LHS's in my area. Its especially funny when the 10 year old TMCC locomotive is right next to the new legacy reissue, and the TMCC locomotive is $200 higher.
Couple that with a bad attitude and I I stick with my online retailers.
Thats O.K., an auction house will probably be picking everything up for a song in a few years.
It happens every Federal Reserve monetary cycle. There are dealer/sellers who confuse what is going up on Wall Street (DJIA)
with what is going down on Main Street: (Personal Income)
As for the dealer himself have you seen what the prices are going for at that suburban BMW dealership, college text books, Ivy League tuition, and divorce settlements? 
>>As for the dealer himself have you seen what the prices are going for at that suburban BMW dealership, college text books, Ivy League tuition, and divorce settlements? <<
When grocery stores gets a price increase with new inventory, (meat, grocery) everything remaining on the shelf gets the new price, old and new.
Don't even bring up gas...
Joe
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