Increasing pricing to current retail on old inventory?

I agree with Allan.  I know there have been times I paid more than what many would consider sane or "the right" price for an item because I wanted it and felt it might be hard to find.  For example, I wanted just one more piece of NKP traditional rolling stock to complete a train that fit on my shelf end-to-end.  Little did I realize how little traditional size NKP rolling stock has been made.  So, I paid more for an NKP flatcar than a ubiquitous NYC, Pennsy, or AT&SF would've cost me.  I'm happy, the seller is happy, what's wrong with that?  On the other hand, we've all found some bargains.

Seems like the law of supply and demand is fully in place.

Jason and others, the probability is that the dealer in question is one we here in the Tar Heel, especially the Central Piedmont area, know well.  His pricing philosophy is almost always MSRP or higher which I will touch upon later.  But, and it is a BIG but, he has an extensive inventory.  He has in fact exactly what you WANT in stock now!  And some will say and have said here he will be “stuck” with it and “go out of business” with it still in stock.  And this has proven NOT to be the case.  But as Allan has pointed out sometimes we just want an item so much we are willing to pay a premium to have it NOW.

Some of my experiences with this dealer include paying $100.00 over MSRP for a five/six year out of production UP 844.  He is about 35-miles up the road.  Went there, put engine on test track (boy it was LOUD), checked it out, paid for it and was back home in less than 2-hours.   A couple of days later decided I wanted the SP 4449 to double head on point.  These were new production he had them it stock so less then 2-hours later was back home with prize in hand that had been checked out to run before exchanging money.  Oh recall I stated the 844 was loud.  When double heading with 4449 on point with 4449 set at 70/80% volume the 844 sound set at 40% stepped all over the 4449.  Pulled the 844 tender shell to find he experiment and transplants one mega speaker.

I have purchased a few other trains there because he had them in stock to test, so would not be disappointed when home with a dead out of box engine.  Most purchases at MSRP some a couple of dollars more and a few couple of dollars less.  Some items no one else had them in stock. In the last decade and a half I have spent just over 4K there.  Where as in the same time frame have spent many, many, many, many more time that at my preferred local (2-miles away) toy train shop.  So yes he got 500/600 dollars more from me then maybe reasonably “right.”  But I got what I wanted when I wanted it.  But spent a Comstock load elsewhere.  He currently has a NYC Hudson that I would kind of like to have.  But it is way, way over priced so I’ll pass which is my or any of ours prerogative.

Presuming we are speaking of the same dealer I have had a discussion with him on his pricing philosophy.  He said Ron I am still in business and these “local” discounters are gone!  And he has a point.  I moved from the “Buckeye State” to Charlotte just over three decades ago.  And since then saw four really great toy train stores and a haft of dozens multi-interest hobby shops in Charlotte vanish.  Ask any toy train guy in Charlotte (one of the largest cities in USA) about where they have to go.  The closest is about 50-miles north or about another 40-miles north to the shop in question.  And probably another haft dozens train/hobby shops closed that were within a reasonable drive.  He has been in business just short of two decades, so just maybe point taken.  From what I have witnessed he quickly takes cares of his customer’s problems.

Some of my O-Gauge friends will not spend a nickel there even if it is something they really want.  Others like myself weigh the value to self versus cost.  I was in there one day when a couple in a brand new Range Rover came in.  They where dressed and bejeweled.  He purchased a boatload of FasTrak and stuff.  It was obvious they were return customers.  About 40-miles south and actually closer to their home could have saved 15%.   

So like buying off of eBay what are you (we) are willing to spend for what we want and enjoy.  We do NOT have to buy it.  And the dealer does NOT have to sell it for what we “want” to spend.  I am kind of glad he is there for the things no buddy else has.

There are a handful of dealers across the US that have a practice of selling premium to list; most of us know who they are. The solution is very simple:

Invest $35 is a years TCA membership, then attend the TCA Eastern Divisions' York meet in April & October for $15/meet more.

Guarantee you'll never take one of those "premium to book/list guys" seriously again! 

_______________________________________________________________________

"Is that item you're showing really for sale or are you just showing off whatchagot? 

This is a totally different situation from the one under discussion but a number of years ago I was working for a major manufacturer of vinyl siding. We decided to reduce the wholesale price of our siding products by about 10%. One of my local distributors was very upset because we essentially reduced the value of his inventory.

Usually when the wholesale price was lowered it was reflected in the marketplace. Most distributors had at least a million dollars of inventory and the reduction reduced the value of the products they had in stock.

I can fully understand the rationale behind it when it's NEW old stock of a certain age or older. If you found a NEW 1980 Chevy I'm certain it would be priced higher than it's original 1980 price.

One thing slightly annoying though is when my LHS restocks currently available items such as switches, buildings, etc. and also raises the selling price of any stock still sitting on the shelf to match the selling price of the newly reordered stock. But as other posters said, they do it at other stores too including supermarkets and GAS STATIONS!!! 

As others have pointed out, anyone can charge what they want for things they sell in their store (as long as they don't have fair trade pricing on them, or they are guilty of illegal price undercutting). 

As Allen and others have pointed out, with trains it depends on what we value something at, we might pay more for something because we want it now. If you get a hankering for ice cream at 2am, is more expensive at a 7-11 then a supermarket. I have bought things in the train world because I know I didn't see them much, I bought the old Erie Wreckawanna green monster MU units off flea bay because at the time, I couldn't find them, and paid prob more then I should, and I was happy (ah, the memories those wrecks bring back.....

In a sense, trains are not commodity items alone, they have sentimental value, whether it is a locomotive or the train line that touches you, it is emotional (on the other hand, I don't think anyone gets all emotional over a 5 year old pc that some yahoo wants to charge a grand for).....so yes, buyer desire plays a role as does supply and demand.

There are dealers, including one where I live, who charge MSRP or above, they aren't cheap, but I will buy stuff from them because they support it (I bought a way out of warranty engine from them, it failed, they fixed it, on the house), and I like them, so for things I will pay the freight, happily. Other things he doesn't have or where the price is simply out of my range, but I can buy it in my price range elsewhere, I will. 

On the other hand, dealers or business people aren't gods, and people have the right to criticize them, too, even if others don't feel they should. The idea of businessmen being gods died a long time ago, back in the social darwin era of things , and what they are legally or justified in doing is one thing, but customers have the right to criticize them, too. It is like the opinions on here, others say things I don't agree with, and they are within their rights to criticize me, and I them. Ultimately a business owner has to make that decision, but then, as others say, I don't want to hear shop owners whine about how hard it is to do business, either. I don't know the shop in question, but if he is trying to pass off 8 year old stuff that isn't the same as the replacement, then in my professional opinion he is foolish, because people know what prices are, and if they can buy, maybe in his shop, a ps3 version of the ps2 version of the same product, who the **** would pay the same for a ps2 (or ps1?) . Who would pay the same for a TMCC version of a lionel engine as the legacy equivalent? The thing about replacement pricing is the goods have to be the same thing basically, if it is totally different things, it is apple and pears...will someone be willing to pay that price for a ps2 model? Maybe, and god bless them, but if I was a retail consultant, I would tell him to get rid of as much dust collecting inventory as possible, unless something has proven itself to be a heart wringer (for example, an older generation hudson might command premium pricing).

Funny, some of the people on here mention gas prices and that is actually a classic example of commodity pricing, where it is identical. The gasoline you buy today was paid for a while ago, the oil and/or the gasoline were bought by futures contracts months ago (oil companies, for example, buy crude 6 months out, they buy oil for november delivery in april or may or further back), and that sets the price at delivery, a gas middleman might buy gasoline based on futures contracts way back as well.  Prices of oil and gasoline are set on commodity markets in futures trading. When the price of gasoline shoots up, usually it is because the price of oil has surged in current month trading (so called front month), and the providers adust current cost based on the cost of buying it in the near future. It is why when oil starts shooting up in price oil companies return such ridiculous profits, they are selling oil or gasoline at a price they set x months ago, and are selling it today at x+ Y%. I also have heard how oil companies can lose money if the price plummets, i.e if they buy it at X in April and by november it is .80x, but what that leaves out is energy companies hedge purchases in such a way that if the price drops, they still make money (complex derivatives trading, where the derivatives contract costs them little, but if the price plummets, makes up for the losses). Thing is, gasoline is gasoline, oil is oil, it doesn't change much (if it is a certain grade of oil, low sulfur is priced different then Saudi high sulfur crude). 

This was my response as well. I was interested in two different MTH items that were a few years past their release date. The MTH site showed these items at the dealer in question. In both cases they were offered at above higher than original list price. In one case they were the only one to have the item still in stock. In the other a few other dealers had them. In the latter I was able to get the item for under list from another dealer. In the former I found one on the forum for considerably under list. Moral of the story is be patient and one will show up at a reasonable price.

Pete

Help me wrap my head around the "Replacement cost concept". Let's see, I can buy a new car for 30K, but the same car that is two years old and out of warranty also goes for 30K. Gee, the used car market looks better and better.

We wake up in the morning and the news says "Gasoline prices rose three cents a gallon overnight" or the like. Truth is gasoline prices didn't do anything at all. Some person or committee made a decision to raise them. Maybe it was "justifiable," maybe not.

In this case, perhaps the owner is attempting to recoup his costs for safeguarding (storing) the item for several years. His store likely does cost more than zero to maintain; and every day we read about another local hobby shop going out of business... . 

Except in the most unusual of circumstances you can't do a thing about it. So pay it or walk away. I'd walk, 99 times out of a hundred.

wolverine

It's the dealer's prerogative to price his items however he wishes.  It's your preogative to say whether his price is worth it to you.

As an MTH collector, I am curious to know what the item is.  I can think of a few A-B-A sets that are very hard to find that would be worth more than M.S.R.P. to me (if I could find them, and was in a position to buy).

Gasoline and oil are traded on commodities markets all over the world, it is a global market (which is one of the reasons politicians promising 2 buck a gallon gasoline are full of crap, that if we produced all the oil in the US, it would be cheap; oil pricing is based on world prices,  unless we wanted to nationalize the oil companies). Gasoline is weird, it actually tends to trade as a weird hybrid called gasoil, rather then straight gasoline.

The price of gasoline and the underlying oil is set by the psychology of trading markets, it is based on perceptions and fears and a lot of other things. If supplies of gasoline are short, trading prices go up. If a refinery goes offline, if a war is threatening in the middle east, it affects trading the way rumors affect prices of stocks. Long range weather forecasts affect the price of natural gas the same way. It isn't some magic magisterium setting the prices, it is set on trading floors all over the world on a 24 hour basis. 

Hey I think know that guy. Was looking for an MTH N-6 PRR caboose, looking for the full size O version. On MTH's site $70. No one has it. Found it on eBay, guy wants like $140 Buy It Now and Make Offer. He'd already tuirned down 5 offers. Been up there for close to a year. Continued watching and it was still there last time I checked.

People have just become more stupid with time.

Frank

The margins manufacturers expect retailers in the train business to accept are very slim. I'm a retailer in Australia, and I only do it for my love of the hobby. If I wanted better returns, I'd pick just about anything else to do.

This why so many shops in your country are closing. Don't hang these people for trying to get something back, soon you won't have a LHS to winge about.

I suspect people in the U.S. will have to learn that lesson the hard way, Dave, and by then it will likely be too late.

 I've heard A lot of the big dealers dump stuff at shows take the cash and buy stuff at auction and get a much higher return on their money.

 As for this dealer a  few forum members and I  were talking about this at Allentown. This dealer charges over MSRP, I gave good deals and tried to compete with internet pricing,  he's still in business and I'm out so go figure.

"Mamma said stupid is as stupid does!"    ....Forrest Gump

and...

"We have met the enemy and he is us!"    ....Pogo

Hopefully I can put this issue to rest! CincinnatiWestern, The Train Loft doesn't have any stock older than 3 years old. The particular engine that you were thinking about purchasing was brought at a collection sale. This engine was brought about a year ago. The price on this engine wasn't purchased at the original catalog price. Also MTH hasn't produced this particular version of this engine in a long time. That why the engine was purchased in the first place. CincinnatiWestern, you do have a choice, you can purchase the engine for the asking price or not purchase the engine at all. I think that it's very unprofessional of you to blow this incident out of the water. It's not that serious!! I thought that model trains were suppose to be fun????..........rogerw.

The customer is the decider-in-chief. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Simple as that!

This implies that dealers can add engines they have in stock to the MTH website "Find It"   feature. Is this really the case? The items I was looking for showed up at this dealer through the Find It feature. Can other MTH dealers verify this fact?

Pete

RogerW,

I asked a broad question about the practice of asking higher than MSRP, for older inventory, I did NOT call out the dealer by name, you are the first to do so.

I would have been highly unprofessional and I believe out of line had I originally or at any point, said "XXXX XXXX is trying to pull XY&Z," others many of them in fact replied and made assumptions as to who the dealer is, if member after member talk about and express their thoughts on this, in a way which does not reflect well, that is more an issue of the practice than my blowing something out of proportion. 

I asked a question to which dozens replied, I didn't mention the dealer, if you have issue with that then perhaps you should request that this forum place a rule banning any discussions of dealer practices. 

Doc Davis,

   Which Side track Hobby store, contact info please.  That is a great price at $399.00.

I might be interested.

PCRR/Dave

CincinnatiWestern, The reason why I called out the dealer's name is because he read your post. He explained to me the situation concerning the engine that you wanted to purchase. Again, You made your choice and you have the right to do so. If any dealer who has product decide to sell the product above MSRP, that is their right to do so. It is our choice to buy it or not. There were a F-3 abba set of proto1 engines at the Train Loft that I wanted to purchase. The set was on cosignment. MTH only made this particular paint scheme in proto1. MTH hasn't produced this paint scheme in proto2. I hope that MTH produces this paint scheme in proto3. I didn't purchase this set because of the asking price and I also wanted to convert this set to proto2. By the time I purchase this set along with converting to proto2, I could have brought a high dollar Premier steam engine. I explained this to the dealer and he agreed. I didn't come on the forum and question why he was selling this set at his price. I made my choice..........End of discussion............rogerw.

If I find happenings like that in a store and I am really interested in the item, I will first suggest to the dealer that the item might have the incorrect price on it.

Depending on the response there may be some negotiating on the price or I will just say not interested.

The name of the game in retail is TURNOVER.  It's not to keep the same inventory year after year.  That is how one makes money.  You have to wonder how a dealer stays in business if their investment just sits on a shelf.

Fred

The point has been made here, that the likes of Charles Ro don't have old inventory, because they sell their stock quickly. This may be true, because they are a master distributor. Most LHS in the US have to buy their stock from the likes of Charles Ro. They can't buy direct from Lionel, at the same prices as the master distributors. The small town hobby shop is at the bottom of the food chain, so how can he compete with the big boys?

http://www.sidetrackhobbies.com/    Its a little work to browse through, but they have TONS of new old stock at great prices. They definately don't apply to this thread title

The last purchase I made there was a bunch of scale Lionel steelside reefers for $18 a piece 

Yet another point well made by Dave Allen!  It's surprising how little many or even most hobbyists seem to understand and appreciate the workings of the business of supplying the hobby. 

As has so often been the case in recent years, far too many want everything, but they want it for next to nothing.  I have a term I like for that particular mindset, but I'll avoid using it here because some will get terribly upset.  Don't want to do that on a Sunday. 

My point exactly!! Thanks Dave and Allan!!......................Rogerw.

In my business we sell to retailers and wholesalers, some of the retailers are tiny, like a LHS, they utilize all the sales channels available, an actual storefront, web stores, paid advertising in publications likely to reach their customs (not unlike OGR), they also use YouTube and social media like Facebook and Twitter to keep in regular contact with customers- in a two way dialog manner- and they are doing well, growing and seeing profits increase. The little guy is not a victim of the current economy they are witness to the greatest opportunity in the history of retail, they can sell world wide, reaching more customers than ever possible, with one of the lowest customer acquisition costs in decades. If the retailer makes a choice to not take advantage of the web, social media, and every sales channel available then they will struggle, go under, and replaced by others who can see the opportunity, adaptation is the key. Those who don't will not last.

This is not a business where any dealers should be leap frogging each other to see who can sell at the lowest price point, the community seems to be willing to pay full rate, it is reaching the customer and offering good service in the process, regardless of where that customer might be. I fully appreciate that this is a generational issue, older customers are less likely to buy on-line, although that too is changing rapidly, but the only way to reach new customers is to reach out and stay in touch with those customers. 

This forum alone shows how some dealers are engaging with customers and prospective customers in new ways, I would venture that RMT can clearly show a long between postings here and sales. 

If any dealer can not survive on the margins provided by MTH, Lionel, etc, with a reasonable sales volume then they should explore another business or attempt to renegotiate their pricing. Blaming the buyer for not being willing to support any dealer by paying a premium, is a little nutty, LHS welfare, really? 

A quick check of YouTube finds that Eric's Trains has over 3,000,000 video views with more than 4350 subscribers, anyone want to venture what the value of being able to reach 4300 people interested in O gauge trains might be, or what having a 5 sec spot in those 3,000,000 video views might have done for their business? It does seem that Legacy Station has, again like in the previous post, another dealer reaching out to new customers in a new way.

Yet, I am sure it is the fault of the dreaded internet that LHS are closing...or mine since I was not willing to willing to just blindly pay a price based upon the dealers financial needs rather than market reality.

Technically a true statement, but I guess we should remind some folks here that Charlie Ro started his toy train business a few decades ago while also running a hair salon / barber shop in a Boston suburb.    So I guess he too at one time or another started small like most LHS's.

So that argument doesn't quite work for me.  That's a bit like telling Taylor Swift she has no right to make the millions she does at 20-something, 'cause she's too young and hasn't been in business as long as traditional country artists.

Any business today needs to take advantage of EVERY avenue and technology that they can in order to succeed.  If it were EASY, everyone would be doing it.

Kudos go out to all the businesses who do the very best they can to succeed.

David

Although Eric may not have started his "project" with that in mind, I wonder if he truly realizes the power keg of marketing clout he's now sitting on.  I would venture to guess it's as powerful -- if not more so -- than the more "established" magazines in this industry.

I'm surprised he doesn't offer ad space on his website/blog, etc...  it would be a no-brainer for sponsors to jump on board.  And more power to him for building what he's built over the past couple of years.  

David

I agree with Dave and Allan, but there is a dealer on the mainland I used to go to for materials. He has been sitting on walls and glass cases of engines for years and won't lower the prices. I'm talking about some engines with proto sound one. I've talked to him many times about moving stock but he just doesn't get it. I feel sorry for him. Anyway it's his business but I do wish him luck and hope he can hang on. Don 

David,

While he may not have started with that intent, he should be able to realize a very hansom revenue stream from it, by more than a few willing LHS -- who don't mind selling nationally or internationally.

If he can build that type of viewership, as a part time hobby venture, I wonder what someone who's living depends upon it could do? Eric shows us clearly that there are media channels, which translate in to sales channels, on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc., these media channels are also a great way to reach prospective new folks to the hobby.

I think what bothers me was expressed well by someone else, it is almost the idea that because an LHS is an LHS, it is our duty to support them somehow, and that if we don't like what they are doing, we have the right not to buy there (but then how are we supposed to support them if we don't shop there?). People talk about the free market, deride socialism as taking away choices, but then in effect people are doing that, they are saying that somehow the LHS owner is a businessman/god and how dare we criticize them or critique their business model?

I saw the same crap over the years growing up. When NJ finally got rid of its idiotic blue laws when I was in college (I worked at a department store, and the blue laws were unbelievably stupid and hard to fathom, if someone came with a pair of socks to the register I was working at the time, if they were sports socks from sporting goods it was okay, if they were sports socks from the men's department, couldn't wring them up). Besides the religious types who wanted to force their religious beliefs on everyone else, the big guilty parties were small business owners, who complained and moaned that if we got rid of those laws, they would have to be open Sunday.

Lots of righteous indignation about the fate of the small business owner, but want to know something? I agree with my dad, I felt no sympathy for them, because in turn they had no concept of customer service, I don't give a crap about all the mythologizing about small businesses, the personal service, it often wasn't true. For example,local hardware stores were often open 8-4 Monday to friday, and maybe had hours 9-12 on Saturday if you were lucky...because the store owner wanted regular hours. Smart? No, because most people work during the week. On top of that, they were often nasty, arrogant SOB's, and quite frankly, I shed no tears when they went under.  It didn't dawn on the jerks it would be a lot better perhaps to be open Saturday and Sunday, and close during the week (when business is lighter), or maybe open later and stay open later..but they wanted that 9-5 job in their own business. For many years, that is all we had, they faced no competition so they got settled in their ways, and thought they were king of the rat pack..and they tried to use the laws for years to protect them, rather then figuring out customers mattered.

LHS are often the same way, I am sorry to say. Yes, it is a hard business, most small businesses are, and they face the fact that it isn't really a high volume market, it is a niche market, and the manufacturers don't exactly favor small business (large volumes are a lot more profitable, even at volume discounts, to sell to) and believe it or not my sympathies are with them. On the other hand, at least try to compete, at least try to find a business model that allows you to operate, instead of complaining and moaning about how 'the internet has ruined my business', that is an excuse, and not a very good one.

The real problem is that the LHS now faces competition, while it is true that you could always pick up a copy of a train magazine (like OGRR or CTT, or before then, Model Railroader) and see adds from Trainworld, Ro, etc, to see prices, in reality the LHS often was the world when it came to trains, and they got used to that. Now that there is an Internet, people know what prices are, they know what the volume discounters are doing, and they have to pick and choose what they are doing, compete with what they have. Yep, the internet can be a danger to them, but it is a friend, they can find ways to market their own shop, they can do internet sales, they also might be able to develop a supply chain where they can pick up stuff at good prices and make some profit on that. 

Sure, the store owner can wait until someone is willing to pay ridiculous prices on old stock, but then they shouldn't whine people should be buying from them. if they were smart, and knew that X engine was out in PS3 and they had the PS2 Model at the same price, or they heard it was coming out in PS3, if someone comes in and makes a decent offer, take it. If they have old stock that doesn't sell, they can do a bit  of research on flea bay or elsewhere, look at a greenberg guide, and realize that maybe, just maybe, to use someone else's analogy, they have a 1980 Chevy Citation, not a Corvette, and no one is going to pay full MSRP for a 32 year old beater like that. Among other things, what the dealer is telling their potential customers is either that they are really stupid, and therefore will be dumb enough to buy their stuff, or they are playing Mad Max in the second Road Warrior movie, and are saying "you want's the gasoline, you comes to me", and both are quite frankly foolish. 

The key is asking themselves how do I differentiate myself? How do I find a way given my business model to get people to shop and buy from me, even if I can't compete with the big discounters...it seems an obvious question, but IMO a lot aren't asking that. Maybe it is tailoring store hours to the hours people actually work (and in all fairness, lots of stores do that).Maybe it is having workshops at the store, to teach about things like how to use command control, how to do basic maintenance on rolling stock, how to get started in the hobby. Maybe it is doing outreach, with groups like boy scouts or other groups dedicated to kids, to get them interested...the list has been talked about ad infinitum, and there were a lot of great thoughts out there, it revolves around service, it revolves around making your store the first place people want to go. And I recognize that there are a lot of hypocritical customers, the grumpy old farts I have run into, who will bemoan the lost of LHSs, but then will go to an LHS, look at the unit, then use the Net to find the cheapest price, and even if the local store isn't that much more expensive, will complain about 'gouging' by the lHS and buy it on the net...and that kind of customer, whom the cheapest price is the only thing, is lost to you. But there are people if a store is reasonable and honest, who offer a lot more then cheap prices, will shop there, if they know about it.

It could also be that market forces have made the LHS, obsolete, but my take is from what I have seen, a lot of them have not even tried, they pine for the good old days, rather then trying to make the best of what they have. There is an LHS near me that has been in business a long time, their prices are not cheap by any means, but they also are a pretty cool place to go, the employees are really, really nice, they have decent hours, and they do the right thing. I bought an old new stock engine there, not under warrantee, that about 2 months after I bought it had issues, they didn't even fight with me, tried it on their in store layout, saw it didn't work, and fixed it for free. In other cases where I bought stuff for them that needed fixing, they fixed it and we split the cost.....and they have kept my business because of it, what there is of it. When I get into serious layout building, I am going to order what I can from them, because they have gotten my trust and I want to help support them where I can. 

As for the store mentioned in the original post, if they are making enough money to stay in business and feel happy about their status, hey, all I can say, to quote a recent Bon Jovi song, is 'Have a nice day'

On the other hand, saying they will find that out when it is too late, also raises an interesting question, and that maybe the LHS is as much of  dinosaur as 1950's Chevy with tail fins, and most people if the last lHS's go under, will realize how little they really did for them.....I am not saying it is so, I am saying that is a possibility. It depends on what the lHS in fact provides or doesn't provide, and I have to be honest, a lot of LHS seem in my view to be stuck in a time and place where they could be assured of business, there is more then a touch of arrogance to some of them. For example, in the OP, the guy with the 8 year old stock trying to charge current MSRP might be justified in his own mind, that he would have to pay X to replace it, but does he think maybe, just maybe, that if he discounted that, basically to a price that reflected the original cost, that whatever the loss is on buying a replacement unit for it (a new PS3 let's say), that the person who bought that unit at the lower price will come back, figuring the guy is a fair dealer? The way the story was told in the OP, the retailer comes off as someone who is looking to gouge the customer anyway he can, like selling old stock at modern prices, and whatever the truth or falacy of that is (as people have argued on this thread), the perception is he is gouging, charging modern prices for an out of warranty unit that has a modern counterpart that is better,that not only can they get the modern one, they can get it elsewhere less then the price he wants for the PS2 which is old stock.....

Facts are one thing, but perceptions are a lot more deadly, and a lot more hard to dissuade people from believing. It could be the owner could justify charging 2013 MSRP for a 2005 until logically, but perceptions are not logical. As I noted before, if he was willing to sell that unit as a discount, he gives the perception that he is a fair dealer, rather then a gouger.

And yes, there are a lot of people in this hobby who talk out of both sides of their mouths when it comes to things, they bemoan the loss of the LHS, but then insist that it is their right to get the cheapest price out there, that will go to an LHS, see the unit demoed on a test layout, talk about it, then get on the net and order it from the cheapest supplier......and expect the lHS to support it when it has issues. The point is, that customer is lost to them, the customer who insists on Walmart prices for everything doesn't care..but there are a lot of people who look for other things in a purchase, sales help, support if it doesn't seem to be working right, a feeling like the store cares,and those people can be groomed. Quite frankly, as much as I support the idea of LHS, and try to support my local one as much as I can (which isn't a lot, especially now, I am facing college bills for the next 4 years), I also won't support it simply to keep the guy in business, if I think he is an arrogant butt head who seems to think I am a fish to be reeled in or otherwise somehow should be grateful he is in business. There are online retailers I won't deal with because I feel they are that arrogant, no matter how good the prices are, and I sure am not going to support a local store run by someone I think is a jerk *shrug*. On the other hand, I liked the two old guys who ran Madison Hardware, go figure. 

Not at all, Allan. 

Teaching the rudiments of business was long ago ditched from the K-12 curricula.  It's left to "The School of Hard Knocks", nowadays...unless, of course you're big enough to merit a political-aggrandizing bailout.

So, after all the teeth-gnashing, pyric bloviation, demonizing diatribe that is so much fun....it's emotionally, psychologically cathartic, isn't it?...where's the education?  Who's going to tell the story?  Who's going to throw out some numbers, costs, margins, competitive poop??  Who's going to talk about the difference between satisfying hobby-indifferent investors versus providing for your own family, kids' education, lifestyle that tries to keep its head above the national poverty level, putting something away for the later years...when the Social Security 'parachute' has so many holes in it that a soft landing is unlikely? 

I know, I know...'It won't play in Peoria!'.  It's not part of the mission statement, readership/audience agenda/expectations, not saleable.

I work at a LHS.  I don't own it.  I have no financial investment in it.  (I have an immense emotional investment in it, however!)  After working there for nearly 15 years, following a 30+ year career in corporate America that concluded with trying to embrace doing business 'over there', being somewhat of a senile sexagenarian with all that those 68 years of life in these United States has experienced, I am fully satisfied that we are completely dissatisfied through our dumbness.  We even have a whole political system that depends on our stupidity and lemming-like qualities, and we asked for that, too. 

Without education, without helping us to improve our understanding, it's going to be more threads like this.  "If we keep doing what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always gotten!"...someone said.

It's all so rhetorical, I know.

ref: Earlier Gump/Pogo quotes.