Is 10% too much to be built in the USA??

>>>the question is are you willing to pay 10% more for doing so?<<

 

 

I think the better question is, are you willing to pay more for a Lionel boxcar outsourced here in America over those outsourced offshore?

For me .. NO!

Joe 

Seems a no-brainer, especially if the quality is better (no guarantees there however).

 

What boggles my mind is that the price went up at all though. 

 

Erasing all the shipping and other costs associated with doing business overseas vs locally, I'm curious on the price jump, and that there is one at all.  Material costs are not the factor they used to be, so it has to either be labor cost, or just market pricing, ie expectations we will pay more for USA made.  Its a risky assumption in my books should it be the latter, with the economy still not where is needs to be, and not sure this won't backfire, with people waiting for discounts and sales to acquire the USA made ones, even more so than normal. 

 

Personally, I don't see the $5.00 as a issue, but it would be for a steamer in your scenario...an extra $100-$150, is just not be feasible in these times.

YEs

Nope

Chris,

 

The actual markup is 7.7%.  So $5 for a traditional sized boxcar, around $40 or so for a Legacy Diesel.  Without any question I would pay the extra.  For all the naysayers that say it is too expensive...is it really??

Joe,

What difference does it make if the people are Lionel employees or not?  All the parts are made in the USA as well as all of the assembly and package printing.  So our fellow citizens are put to work and instead of buying 11 Chinese boxcars I can now buy 10 American made boxcars.  I can live with that.

Most definitly.

the difference here is on a traditional sized simple boxcar...fairly sure that on a highly detailed, scale sized Legacy engine the difference will be much larger.

 

$70.- (msrp) for a traditional sized simple boxcar..for the same price can get a highly detailed and crafted MTH European rolling stock or Atlas Reefer.

Absolutely worth it.  For that 10% (or 7.7%) increase we can compare American QC vs Chinese QC.  I expect better of our American workers and after so many years of poor Chinese QC, any new rants will be refreshing.  You can't put a price on that!

Although the pre-order price is $50 for these $70 cars (about a 30% discount).  In general I don't think MTH cars are discounted as much from the MSRP and Atlas cars are about 15% off maximum.  Don't get me wrong, I think in general Lionel overprices their traditional rolling stock (of which I don't buy any unless it is for my kids) but we should be comparing street prices.

However, this doesn't really have anything to do with USA + $5 vs. Chinese. 

I'll pay a little more for AMERICAN MADE LIONEL TRAINS! Some have stated that material costs are not much of a factor now; actually it still is an important cost consideration. All American materials are better and do cost more. Some of these costs are directly related to the Oil Industry and their greed for big profits, no matter who they hurt! I'm willing to accept  the fact of worldwide manufacturing; and if Lionel wants to make the detailed body shells, engine or cars, overseas and import them to the states like Williams did for assembly onto American Made chassis, that would work for me. The ideal would be to have it all here, but to paraphase what an american president once said, it is a long road ahead but we must begin by taking  the first step! I'm sure that as this venture progresses, locomotives will eventually be made here and may cost a bit more, but the experience gained and the manufacturing techniques employed will keep cost reasonable. Much of the speculation of cost is done on the retail figures, not what it actually cost the manufacturers to make these products (second set of books). Let's give this start-up a chance and support it as best we each can and see what develops.  Dennis m.

Very well said Dennis.  

 

When they first announced this "idea" I was quite excited until I found out it was for only the 4 President cars (which I personally think are atrocious).  Additionally since the vast majority of what I buy is scale and highly detailed I was left unimpressed.  However I do buy some traditional for Christmas and my daughters who love all of the holiday Peanuts specials.  So I will be supporting this venture by buying all 3 Peanuts cars.

You really can't compare hevyweight passenger car construction to what is essentially 6464 boxcars.

 

Rusty

No problem, just buy Weaver. Joe Hayter decided to move production of his new-mold, high-quality cars back from China to the U.S.A. (The older molds have always been made here; only the newer, high-end cars like the B&O wagontops and the head-end cars were made in China.) We will see the fruits of this in August or September when the made-in-USA Milwaukee Road ribside boxcars will be shipping out. I've talked to a couple of people who have seen them and say they're excellent. I'm hoping this is the first beachhead for a return to U.S. production on more trains. 

 

Support US manufacturing - buy Weaver! I'm doing my bit; I've got 13 of them on order from JD's (He gives quantity discounts).

I'm willing to experiment with a few of these cars to determine if the quality is better.  I'm in for the President cars and glad to see a few of the Christmas cars are going to be American made too.

 

If the quality is better, I could see my self ignoring anything not made in America in the future, if they can keep it going.  I've had far too many problems with mid to high level items in the last year to just be unlucky.  While features and/or details in the Chinese product may be going up somewhat in recent years, I am convinced the quality is on a steady decline.  (this is not just Lionel, of course).

 

-Dave

 

No, 10% is not too much.

To me it’s no different than paying more at a small brick and mortar shop compared to a large mail order business. I understand the reason for the higher price and I am willing to pay it to help keep a local shop, and the benefits it provides, afloat. But I think the semantics are a bit warped. We aren’t as much paying more for US made products as we are paying less for imported ones. Companies will always find someplace to build their products for less, therefore raising their profit margins, by seeking out impoverished societies that will happily pay their workers virtual slave wages and trash the water they drink and the air that they breathe. While I don’t agree with every aspect of American labor, the strides we’ve made in employee health and safety, environmental standards, and reasonable wages all contribute to the prices we pay for domestic goods. We all expect these things from our own employers but insist on prices that are only possible by circumventing them by moving manufacturing elsewhere.

To tell you the truth, I would have expected 20% or more, so a mere 10% is quite a bargain.

 

I honestly don't think you'll see any difference in quality--certainly not in comparing simple boxcars.  You really have to go to motive power, and over a bit of time, to be able to properly make that kind of distinction.

Maybe for the people here but not for common buyer.  People flock to w-mart to buy cheap chinese electronics but will not go to some other store with better quality products.  Price always wins over quality with the masses.  The question that should be asked is for the 40 or 50 people who regularly post here, what percentage of the train products do you buy from a manufacturer?  I would guess it is in the low single digits if you total it up for the frequent posters.  Unless you get the price for a US made product to be the same as from elsewhere, price over quality wins out. 

 

Only if you are in a niche market can quality win over price.  For the train hobby, I would see it in the $1000+ locomotives but not in the $50 box car.  The average consumer is going to buy the $40 boxcar and never buy a $1500 locomotive.  They will settle for a $200 locomotive instead.

 

Look at all the posts talking about Williams locomotives and not going into Legacy/DCS.  This should indicate that price is important.  Those people just aren't posting to this thread.

I'm one of those Williams posters, and it's not that Legacy/DCS is too expensive for me.  It's just that I'm not interested in complicating my life.

 

When Lionel moved to Communist China, I offered my .02 that "something they make would have to be awfully attractive in the future for me to buy it."  And, indeed, I've bought only 2 Lionel engines since.

 

To answer the original poster's question - certainly!  7.7%?  A bargain. 

When you read the brief on these items it says that all parts have been crafted and assembled, I would have thought it would have said that all parts are manufactured instead. Does this mean that Lionel have either shipped back or made new tooling specifically for these items, if so that is a big investment for just a few items. I would have thought that Lionel may have produced the component parts in China than had them shipped to the US and then assembled. If this is the case I can see why the cost is just marginally more than the off-shore items. I guess also that if all production returns to the US everything will cost a lot more an 10% when you take into account wages, buildings, R&D, tooling costs etc. Just my thoughts. Neil

plus 10%--yes!

 

Given the choice, I'd happily pay that extra to support putting food on the table of an American family.

 

It's really the absence of the option to purchase a conventional version of most modern locos that relegates me to 20+ year old stuff from the secondary market, not the locale of manufacturing.  But yeah, I'd have no problem kicking in a little extra for a US product, as I expect many here would.  I doubt the masses would, as others have also stated.

Could have bought a Hershey bar or two with that ten percent.

I would gladly pay 10% more if it also meant significantly improved product quality.

I personally would pay the 10% more even if it were the same exact quality (or lack thereof) simply because I would rather give my hard earned money to my neighbor than to a foreigner.

 

However, I would think that quality could improve simply by having the manufacturing much closer to the "importer" so that proper QC can be done. 

How the heck are you going to compare quality of chinese ve american on a 6464 style Boxcar.  Theres not that many things to measure

Many of my most recent issues regard finish and defects in paint, etc.  Those can be observed even on a simple boxcar, which could have similar decorative processes as other items.

 

As an example, last year I had to look at 3 different 2012 Christmas boxcars at my dealer before I found one with defects that were small enough that I could live with them. 

 

I agree operational durability is a totally different subject, and of course there is little you can tell from a 6464 in that regard.

 

-Dave

I would gladly pay 10 percent more to purchase goods made in the USA. I don't buy many recently made trains, but I certainly do buy other goods. 

The thought that all the materials will be made in the US is a pipe dream.  Try to find many of the electronic components built here, it's a fool's errand.  While it might actually be assembled here, all the parts will surely not be made here.

 

It is a start to bring some production back home, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking it'll be 100% US content.

 

I'd like to see an actual breakdown of exactly what will truly be made here and what will still be imported.  This could be little more than a marketing scheme.

One must also consider that our Skilled American workforce (key word being skilled) is nothing compared to what it was in the past. Skills are no longer being passed on from one generation to the next as in the past. We now have a workforce that has to learn on thier own in many cases by trial and error. It is not as simple as buying some tools, renting a facility, and hiring a workforce and then poof...we now have a quality product. Our skilled manufacturing workforce has been descimated by this mass transition to offshore manufacturing so we the american consumer are going to have to exhibit patience and the willingness to pay that extra expense to support this "rebirth", otherwise one can be arruered that manufaturing will go offshore again.

 

We must return to a society that is american made "brand" loyal and not cheapest brand loyal.

$35 is pretty much the upper limit I'll spend for ANY freight car, so.. no.

Yes, Im in, its worth it to me.

Yes with no regrets.

Yes with no regrets.

I agree with Strogey.   Bring jobs back to America, I don't mind paying extra for an item made in this country.  What really upsets me is someone buying an American Flag made in CHINA.   Killian

 

VETERANS HOME - NORTHERN CALIFORNIA

POW/MIA YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN

Perhaps a more intriguing question might be "would you be willing to pay 10% for a Atlas/MTH/Lionel circuit board product that contains a lifetime, return to factory (rep) warranty similar to the type already provided for free by Bachmann/Williams?"

 

As for your original question I'm still waiting for the prices of select importers to be reduced by 10% after they used material and oil inflation as their justification for raising prices in 2009.

LOL, I am waiting for companies like General Mills to roll back their food prices now that energy prices are down.