Is Gargraves track and Ross track the same?

They are not "the same". Different manufactures. However, they are very similar and compatible; akin to mixing Marx and Lionel O-27 tubular track.

No, Ross track is individually spiked to the rails, Gargraves has a groove in the rails and they slide the ties onto the rails.  The actual rail material is very similar, and I have heard that Ross actually buys the rail from Gargraves, but that's not chiseled in stone.

Gargraves track has a sub-track structure that is used as the attachment to the wood ties.   Ross uses track nails, to attach to the ties.  Both are a tubular, hollow track.    Ross (3-way) switch, Gargraves track.  

Left in the bottom picture is Gargraves track, note: the below railroad tie profile.   After part of the lower profile was removed, with a dremel, connected, with an Atlas track joiner, to Atlas track.  Gargraves, and Ross, use track pins.  There is a slight difference in the pin size.  

Gargraves pins left, Ross pins Right.  Gargraves is a larger pin.  

Based on the ease of cutting with a Dremel cutoff disc, Ross is made with heavier gauge steel than Gargraves.

The Ross track (including ties) is a little higher than is the  Gargraves.

Hal

I think we're splitting hairs here, the difference between a new piece of Gargraves and Ross is .8mm in height.  It's actually exaggerated in this picture due to the angle, but I measured the difference to be .8mm  It's a non-factor as far as mixing the two brands.

Early on. Ross did use GG track rail until they were able to buy their own track making machines. The spikes do make Ross track look a little better but as stated above they are compatible. 

To blend the difference rail heights I place a thin cardboard spacer under the GG track 10+/- inches before the junction with a Ross product.  That way there is a smooth flat transition.

If you are using sectional curve track Ross sectional curve track is more precise.  Ross' mfg. process yields accurate replication of degrees of curvature. 

GG sectional curve track can be fudged to follow pre drawn curves but Ross will lay right on the line.

Please do not take this comment as anything but an exacting approach of how one person handles the transition difference.  GG flex track is an excellent product,  I use it frequently.

@Tom Tee posted:

To blend the difference rail heights I place a thin cardboard spacer under the GG track 10+/- inches before the junction with a Ross product.  That way there is a smooth flat transition.

Tom,

I agree with your recommendation. There will be increased wear on traction tires if the Gargraves/Ross rails have unequal heights at a track joint.

MELGAR 

Thanks gents for the very informative responses.

I think I might stick with just buying new Ross track products.  I do not plan on using flex track but rather just sectional.

When you put track pins in its the same height. then maybe as suggested support under the GG with cardboard for about a foot.

Just as an appearance difference reference:

This photo I took of an in-progress loco project a couple of years ago shows GG track (foreground) and Ross (next 2 tracks), both painted and ballasted and old and dirty (like a RR should be!). Visually almost the same, though I do like the look of the Ross "spikes", and painting/ballasting is a bit easier with Ross, as that deep "flange" of track that GG uses to slide through the ties is not there. But, both are good, friendly and available. And steel. I like steel track.

I used GG flex for the straights and "casual curves", and Ross (or now-defunct Curtis - same design) pre-formed 072 for the mains and the like.

All my track work is undergoing re-ballasting and so on at the moment. I don't intend to show the cork (see lower left) when finished. Old layout.

You would have access to both Ross and Gargraves on the secondary, (used) market.  My friend Tom's layout was done with all used Ross and Gargraves Switches, Gargraves track. 

I used Ross track for my bridge track (see Run 317, available now at your favorite LHS ) because I did not want to see a shiny web below the ties. It worked out very nicely.

I've never had an issue with mating GG and Ross track. As noted previously, once the pins are in place, the very slight difference in height disappears.

Chris

LVHR

Short answer--no, they are not the same. However, in both cases, and in all the variants of both brands, you DO get what you pay for.

I originally planned to build my layout with all Gargraves--switches and track--for cost reasons, mostly. I bought a ton of used and new Gargraves track and turnouts. Then a guy came along and offered me a good deal on a layout-load of used Ross turnouts. I bought those and used the Ross turnouts with my Gargraves flex track. That has worked out "simply grand" as they say in the king's English.

However, I discovered that I was not very good at bending GG flextrack to the tighter radiui (radius's??). So for 054 and less I started buying GG and Ross sectional track. This was probably less than 15% of my layout so not a lot. But I bought maybe 90-150 sections, a mix of used and new, and a mix of both brands.

I was under the mistaken impression that GG and Ross sections were identical in their geometry. Wrong-o; they are not (because they are not the same length, I think). So for instance, I was unable to mix GG and Ross sections in an 054 helix when I wanted the circles to be directly aligned vertically. Maybe I just bought the wrong types of sections in each brand and then tried to mix them--I don't know. You can of course mix GG and Ross sections in normal use--a helix is a special case.

I also learned that GG and Ross are not identical in their construction--not even close. And I learned that both GG and Ross have different quality offerings for their sections. So you can pay more in both brands and get better track. You have to research this to see what quality level you need. These varieties are reflected in things like indoor versus outdoor and wooden ties versus plastic ties. But also, some of the Ross sections have stiffeners underneath the rails that REALLY strengthen the track and I think that is a very worthwhile improvement.

Overall, I ended up using used GG flextrack in most layout situations--straights and sweeping curves. But I used Ross sectional track for 054 and tighter curves. I also ended up using almost 100% Ross switches with Z-stuff 2500 machines. But that is more due to the deals I was able to make than any evaluation of GG versus Ross.

There ya go!--a short story made long! My pleasure....

Don Merz

Take a piece of Ross track. Turn it upside down. You'll see the difference.

My layout is a combination of Ross and Gargraves.  All of the switches/turnouts are Ross.  All of the remaining track is Gargraves, a combination of flex (straights and free-formed curves/transitions) and preformed sectional (fixed radii curves).

I chose this combination to keep the appearance of the track more consistent.  The spikes (staples) that Ross uses help to celebrate their switches...especially that GORGEOUS double cross-over! There were several places in my RR-Track plan that required the use of Gargraves' flex track for free-formed transition curves.  Since Gargraves does not use the 'spikes', I decided to keep the rest of the track 'spike-free' for consistent appearance.  I'm happy with the choice.

But, I know that Ross considers Gargraves an essential part of their product line...check their website!!  Some of Gargraves track products...such as flex track, bumpers, uncoupling track, etc...are listed by Ross in their catalog. 

And what's even more cool about this whole scenario?....their track products are Made in America!  And always available.  AND OGR Forum sponsors, too!

KD

@Don Merz 070317 posted:

Short answer--no, they are not the same. However, in both cases, and in all the variants of both brands, you DO get what you pay for.

I originally planned to build my layout with all Gargraves--switches and track--for cost reasons, mostly. I bought a ton of used and new Gargraves track and turnouts. Then a guy came along and offered me a good deal on a layout-load of used Ross turnouts. I bought those and used the Ross turnouts with my Gargraves flex track. That has worked out "simply grand" as they say in the king's English.

However, I discovered that I was not very good at bending GG flextrack to the tighter radiui (radius's??). So for 054 and less I started buying GG and Ross sectional track. This was probably less than 15% of my layout so not a lot. But I bought maybe 90-150 sections, a mix of used and new, and a mix of both brands.

I was under the mistaken impression that GG and Ross sections were identical in their geometry. Wrong-o; they are not (because they are not the same length, I think). So for instance, I was unable to mix GG and Ross sections in an 054 helix when I wanted the circles to be directly aligned vertically. Maybe I just bought the wrong types of sections in each brand and then tried to mix them--I don't know. You can of course mix GG and Ross sections in normal use--a helix is a special case.

I also learned that GG and Ross are not identical in their construction--not even close. And I learned that both GG and Ross have different quality offerings for their sections. So you can pay more in both brands and get better track. You have to research this to see what quality level you need. These varieties are reflected in things like indoor versus outdoor and wooden ties versus plastic ties. But also, some of the Ross sections have stiffeners underneath the rails that REALLY strengthen the track and I think that is a very worthwhile improvement.

Overall, I ended up using used GG flextrack in most layout situations--straights and sweeping curves. But I used Ross sectional track for 054 and tighter curves. I also ended up using almost 100% Ross switches with Z-stuff 2500 machines. But that is more due to the deals I was able to make than any evaluation of GG versus Ross.

There ya go!--a short story made long! My pleasure....

Don Merz

One difference is that the diameter of one's O-72 is NOT the same as the other brand's.  I know this as fact in designing a layout.  As example the O-72 side of a Ross turnout is not the exactly  same diameter as  an O-72 section of GG.  So for symmetry on the opposite side of the loop I use an O-72 section of Ross track.  

So you cannot haphazardly mix section of say O-72 GG and Ross track together.  But if you balance them it works!

This is just like say O-31 Lionel is not the same as O-31 real trac.  In fact if you look at the GG specs you will see that again say O-72 plastic tie track is not the same as the specs for wood tie track.

Ron