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If a person planned on acquiring a very high end brass steam engine and caboose in the future, would the modern mass produced freight cars stick out like a sore thumb or are they close enough in scale and detail to look at home between two finely crafted pieces of equipment? If you want to run multiple trains with fairly long consist, I can't imagine spending the kind of dollars to buy that many brass freight cars, if you could find enough of them. I have already started to stock pile the various pieces of rolling stock to do the trains I want to do, 2 rail if possible, but 3 rail to be converted later if it comes my way. I just hope it doesn't look out of place when I get the brass engine and caboose to cap it? 

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I don't know. My modern mass-produced 2-rail plastic diesels seem to get along well with my brass rolling stock.

 

All kidding aside, it's a matter of detail. Atlas makes very detailed plastic rolling stock (Master Line) that compares well to brass until you get really really close. The trucks are the weak spot as the side frames are thick on the earlier items (they've since come out with new trucks) but you could replace them with some ProtoCraft trucks.

Yeah, definitely agree that it's not a problem if need more detail for the most part it's available from the sources Erik listed. 

 

Once you have the detail parity resolved, keep in mind weathering helps too hide the variance of the material used to produce a piece of equipment.  After you tone down/dull plastic freight cars, basically getting rid of the sheen and apply weathering based on whatever condition you're trying to achieve, the plastic models are hard to distiguish between the brass models also with the same treatment.

 

 

hello guys and gals...........

 

I have a sunset 3rd S.F. brass steamer and wanted to know if the williams scale 72 foot plastic Madison heavyweights are good enough to go behind my brass locomotive as they are mass produced.  I am shopping for some Madison cars on a budget. any opinions ?

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello guys and gals...........

 

I have a sunset 3rd S.F. brass steamer and wanted to know if the williams scale 72 foot plastic Madison heavyweights are good enough to go behind my brass locomotive as they are mass produced.  I am shopping for some Madison cars on a budget. any opinions ?

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

That all depends on your personal definition of "good enough". 

I had to read this closely to interpret the meaning...running models of MODERN HIGH CUBE freight cars behind brass steam..uh..no...running Atlas and other models of steam era cars behind brass engines...betcha hundreds of 3 railers, and 2 railers,  are running Atlas, and other period cars behind 3rd Rail, Weaver, etc. brass steamers. I often wondered who bought the pricey brass freight cars (I have a few older, like Hallmark, brass cabooses, because of variety, but picked up cheap) when I walk through an O scale show.  How many of those brass cars can a brass two rail engine pull, anyway?  Of course, if you want a specific model for a specific road

and it is available.....

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello guys and gals...........

 

I have a sunset 3rd S.F. brass steamer and wanted to know if the williams scale 72 foot plastic Madison heavyweights are good enough to go behind my brass locomotive as they are mass produced.  I am shopping for some Madison cars on a budget. any opinions ?

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

I have a set of Williams Heavyweights. They had the passenger "pictures" on window strip. I'm getting ready to cut some of them up, install scale wheels and kadees to make an ATSF Maintenance of Way train.

 

The Williams carsn are pretty generic and not bad for what they are. The MTH cars are better (and have interiors); I thought the K-line cars were the best (no interiors) but you can fabricate appropriate interiors for the Williams cars if you relocate/replace the lighting and add plastic window strip. K-line cars tend to be hard to get and more expensive. Sometimes there's a deal to be had on eBay on MTH heavyweight sets, but you'll need to be ready to repaint/re-letter.

 

One thing about the MTH heavyweights is the baggage cars. They're using Pennsy doors. One of these years I'll get off my duff and make some ATSF-appropriate replacements. Ironincally, on the separate-sale RPO, they had the right doors.

 

Third Rail did some that were very nice and a full 80 feet. I believe Pecos River Brass also did some in brass several years ago.

 

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by AGHRMatt:
 

One thing about the MTH heavyweights is the baggage cars. They're using Pennsy doors. One of these years I'll get off my duff and make some ATSF-appropriate replacements. Ironincally, on the separate-sale RPO, they had the right doors.

 

Third Rail did some that were very nice and a full 80 feet. I believe Pecos River Brass also did some in brass several years ago.

 

Hope this helps.

Since this thread has gotten off track, MTH now make RPOs and Baggage cars with rectangular windows. I made a mold of one and cast a few for my older MTH head end cars.

 

Old and new style doors:

 

 

Mold and resulting casting of one pair of doors.

 

 

Here are the materials used:

 

 

 

Pete

 

 

The quality and detail of today's mass produced Scale cars, two or three rail, compares to and occasionally beats brass rolling stock, especially the older brass that will be found on e-bay.

Tim

 

I agree with Andy. I would add that modern O scale plastic freight cars tooled in say the last 15 years usually beat older brass freight cars in two areas.  First, the quality of paint and lettering on modern plastic cars is excellent.  Second, the crispness of detail on injection molded doors, car ends and roofs is often better than is achieved in stamped brass.  The area where you might find plastic cars behind brass is on underside detail.  If that is a major area of concern to you adding detail to the plastic cars might be the best way to get the level of detail that you want.

 

Weather you are looking at a brass or plastic, knowledge of the prototype you are modeling will help you decide if a particular car is up to your standards.

 

There are about 200 differently tooled plastic freight cars that have been produced since the 1990s.  Since you are modeling the steam era I would suggest looking at these particular O scale models.

 

Box cars:

 

Atlas, Lionel and MTH all make USRA double sheathed box cars. I have the Atlas and MTH cars and find them to be similar in add on details but MTH has the most accurate rendering of the car sides.

 

Atlas and MTH make models of the USRA single sheathed box car.  I consider them equal in detail.

 

Atlas and MTH both make models of the 1937 AAR box car.  I have several of each.  Atlas offers both single and double door versions made from the old Intermountain tooling.  The MTH car is made from more modern tooling (which helps keep the cost down) and has a Viking roof that was preferred by the VanSwerengen lines.  If I was looking for a C&O, Erie or NKP car I'd go after the MTH model and go with Atlas for most other roads.

 

Weaver makes model of the B&O round roof car and will soon deliver the Milwaukee Road rib side box car.  These railroad specific designs will add variety to a car fleet.

 

Lionel, MTH and Pecos River have all made 50 foot steel automobile box car models.  The Pecos River cars were offered in 2 rail and, while not super detailed, they are scale models of a common car.

 

Lionel makes the best model of the PS-1 box car.

 

Atlas Trainman gets honorable mention for their post war AAR and 50 foot single sheathed automobile cars.  While less detailed than all of the models mentioned above they are scale models of prototypes that are otherwise unavailable outside of brass.

 

Reefers:

 

Atlas, Lionel and MTH all make very nice models of ice bunker reefers.  If you know your prototype you can find something you like.

 

Stock Cars:

 

Atlas Trainman, Lionel and MTH all offer O scale stock cars.  The Lionel car is the most detailed model and the most typical in dimensions of a car built in the steam era.

 

Tank Cars:

 

The Atlas 8,000 and 11,000 gallon tank cars are the best models of steam era tank cars available in plastic.  If  you want more variety I would look for brass tank cars.

 

Covered Hoppers:

 

Lionel, MTH and Weaver all make models of the 70 ton 2 bay PS-2 covered hopper from the very late steam era.  Atlas makes a model of an earlier 70 ton 1958 cubic foot covered hopper that went into production in the late 1930s.  Weaver makes a PRR specific covered hopper.  All were used to haul dense products like sand or cement and would tend to stay on or close to their home roads.

 

Coal hoppers:

 

O scale plastic coal hoppers could be an article all on their own.

 

Gondolas:

 

Both the Lionel PS and Weaver War Emergency cars have drop ends.  The recently manufactured MTH 52 1/2 footers have an underframe designed for Kadee mounting.

 

The MTH GS gondolas are good models and Petersen Supply has two road names in factory 2 rail, the first MTH freight cars offered in a factory 2 rail configuration.

 

Flat Cars:

 

Lionel and MTH make good 40 or 41 foot flat car models.  For 52 1/2 foot flats take a look at the MTH or Lionel PS car.

Ted, thanks for some very good and descriptive info. At this point I am on a PFE addiction and have about 55 or so cars mostly Atlas and Intermountain with the latest MTH six packs thrown in. I know MTH has made a couple of previously run six packs before and nervousness in details prompted this thread. But it sounds like I will have little or no issues buying the remaining modern production samples. I was also able to procure a unbuilt Athern Aluminum PFE car kit that another thread had highlighted. I am sure that after some standardization and weathering I will be pleased. I have the PFE book but it is in storage right now and I can't get to it to research, but I try not to count to many rivets because nothing is ever perfect and life is to short.

I am planning a couple of other 2 rail trains with mixed freight and your comments about the AAR and double sheathed cars is very helpful.

Sure, but it depends on the model. A blanket statement really doesn't work because you need to compare each specific model, and measure it against the prototype and era. I'm looking for the best model available no matter what material it is made of. Currently the mix on my railroad is about 75% brass/25% plastic and kit built. I'll also buy lesser items as placeholders until I can upgrade or get my hands on a better model.

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello guys and gals...........

 

I have a sunset 3rd S.F. brass steamer and wanted to know if the williams scale 72 foot plastic Madison heavyweights are good enough to go behind my brass locomotive as they are mass produced.  I am shopping for some Madison cars on a budget. any opinions ?

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

Hi Tiffany,

 

This isn't meant to be a smart aleck or flip answer, so bear with me please! The first thing you should do is get some reference material on the prototype cars you are interested in. You can buy books, go to the library, or research it on the Net!

 

Once you armed with the information what the real stuff looked like and it's features, you can look at the various models out there and decide which you like, and if they fit your budget and are what will ultimately satisfy you (emphasis here on you).

 

Only you can truly decide what suits your needs and budget! Knowing what the prototype equipment  was really  like may save you from making a purchase you may regret later!  Good Luck and Happy Modeling!

 

Simon

Tim, I like you, thought I was in a trap with my brass GP20s U50s and such with buying brass cars. I was happy that I found PRB and would buy 2 to 4 a year until I found my first Atlas car on vacation at a national show in Seattle in '04. For the 200-$400 a car one paid for a brass one wouldn't want to put a weathering brush to them cars. I like em dirty and dirt hides a lot of detailing as the eyes are pleased by realism of the on the rails look. And I guess are you trying to please yourself or some rivet counter friend.  I think you will be very happy with Atlas cars besides the price running on your tracks. . 

Let's put it this way (albeit in S Scale...)

KGB 113901 03crop

2-8-0: Brass import, Southwind Models

Reefer: 1950's vintage wood/metal/cardstock of unknown origin

Boxcar: Pacific Rail Shops (similar to Intermountain/Atlas O)

Tank: S Scale America (think Athearn HO Ready-to-Run)

Gondola: American Flyer conversion...

 

Put it all together it spells train, nothing really sticks out like a sore thumb at normal viewing distances.

 

Rusty

Attachments

Images (1)
  • KGB 113901 03crop

Intermountain and Red Caboose models are closer to scale than a lot of brass cars.  Some of this was pointed out to me by a professional painter who said the overlap on steel sided reefers is actually correct - we may not think so because our eyes are used to seeing brass models.  One of the fellows from Red Caboose showed me a tank car model in N scale and pointed out that the rivets were conical, not round!  Had to use magnification but he was right.  Can't do that with etching.  No need to fret over fidelity with a lot of the plastic models that are available.  Have fun.

To add to my comment above.

Todays plastic v. brass

Unless you pick it up and feel it.

cold to the touch - brass ( of course painted)

warm to the touch - plastic

You most likely will not see the difference.

Right now in the freight yard at NYSME we have

a freight with 25+ brass cars, the next track as a freight with

30+ cars made from Athern, Main-Line, paper sides kits, and the next

track has a train of mostly Atlas present day production.

Unless you know,,, you don't know.

 

Andy Brusgard

www.ModelEngineers.org

Collectors or display operators may care about that.   Model Railroaders would not care one iota about mixing brass and plastic etc.

 

They would notice if you mixed a steam loco with "modern", ie post steam, freight cars.    If the cars were 80s or 90s prototype, they would stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.   

 

Most of the new mass produced cars are scale and very detailed.   Their only disadvantage is they tend be made generic.   In other words, they do one car that may have details used by a specific RR and then paint it for a bunch of others.   Sometimes that is pretty accurate and sometimes it is not.

 

But again, as a model railroader, you may want to get the models to be prototypically compatible and not worry about where they came from.

hello Simon Winter........

 

Your'e doing just fine SMILE, I was thinking of the Williams scale 72 foot Madisons heavyweights cars as liked the gold pin stripes on top and bottom of the windows across the car.  Are they good enough for scale locomotives such as Sunset 3rd brass?

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

Nothing is out of place if you like it.    It all depends on what you want to do with your models.

 

If you want to be more prototypical, your cars and engines should be from the same era.  

 

But if you are not worried about being more prototypical, do it.   

 

It is your hobby and you should not have to worry about what others do or think.

Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello Simon Winter........

 

Your'e doing just fine SMILE, I was thinking of the Williams scale 72 foot Madisons heavyweights cars as liked the gold pin stripes on top and bottom of the windows across the car.  Are they good enough for scale locomotives such as Sunset 3rd brass?

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

Tiffany,

 

If they put a smile on your face, that is all that matters.  That's the best advice I can give.

 

Happy Railroading,

Simon

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