Is my train consist too long ?

I would think that the cars closest to the head end would have the derailing issues (stringlining).

Gerhardt posted:

Hi,

I’m running 8 to 10 15” aluminum passenger cars and am finding im having issues with the rear cars derailing on curves and switches.  I’m operating on 42” curves and switches. Is there anything I can do or were these not meant to run in longer consists? The Plastic cars made by mth don’t seem to have an issue when I run a longer consist but the aluminum ones keep coming off.  

Thanks in advance  for your advice. 

go very slow where the derailments happen and look for binding, couplers not moving enough etc.  length should not be a problem imo

Ten 15" cars on O42 shouldn't be an issue, and as others have said, I'd expect the cars closer to the front to be the problem if any.

No, not too long. Only wheel slip or stringlining is too long The later can often be worked around by placing heavy loads to the front, light to the rear.

It usually only happens if cars are light enough to bounce or bad track, or wide / narrow wheel gauging,

  You didn't mention which cars. It could be that 42" is too small. Are the coupler shafts articulated? If not look to see if the coupler sits over the center rail in curves. To far to the outside and they are likely dragging each other off the rails. (and towards the head end, you are just getting lucky, the extra pull is actually keeping them planted, barely.

It could also be the couplers fit to each other. Too tight and the maximum angle the couplers can achieve while coupled in a turn is insufficient. Massaging the pockets or knuckle with a file can improve the max. angle.

An articulated coupler shaft should stop most of the above, but if the centering spring is very stiff it could be as bad as a solid shaft.

Which brand of aluminum 15 inch cars? Lionel and MTH versions should be fine, as well as Williams by Bachman. The old pre Bachman Williams cars had some wheel gauge issues. I have a couple cars and had to fix the wheel sets. The axles were not tight in the truck so the wheels would bounce around and not follow the curve.

Thanks to all of you so far for your input.  I am having the issue with both MTH and Williams cars made in the likeness of the postwar streamliners.  I’m going to check on the couplers. I also have noticed some play in the trucks so perhaps they just need to be tightened. Never done that before so I will have to figure it out. These are cars that I got used so you never know what they’ve been through. I thought perhaps that it was simply too long but from what everyone is saying I can safely rule that out! Thanks guys!

Did you try moving those cars that derail forward in your train and put different cars at the rear? I, a short time back, received a new coach and a reefer which derailed on curves and switches. I found the wheels to be out of gauge, after re-gauging the cars were fine.

Ray

Check that couplers are not hitting steps.

Gerhardt,

Not the length or weight, something is binding, RJR is giving you the probable cause.

PCRR/Dave

Weight. IMO, weight is the issue, particularly toward the end. Start 'em up slow and see how the slack is taken up. 

Maybe check the wires to the trucks have enough slack to allow a full turn.

And please let us know when and how this is cleared up; eh? 

Lionel , MTH and Williams Aluminum 15" cars were designed to run on curves as low as 031. I run them perfectly on 042 curves .   I recently had a problem with derailments and it was caused by a dip in the rails.  Run a metal straight edge over the area when the derailments are occurring. Then measure if the tracks are level across and with them.  If that doesn't help switch the cars and see if its a problem with the trucks or even with a slightly bent wheel axle.  Hand rotate the wheels and observe if there is any wobble. .

Rayin"S" posted:

Did you try moving those cars that derail forward in your train and put different cars at the rear? I, a short time back, received a new coach and a reefer which derailed on curves and switches. I found the wheels to be out of gauge, after re-gauging the cars were fine.

Ray

The Fort Pitt Highrailers had similar problems.  Surprisingly the wheels usually were too close together and would ride-up on switch and cross over guide rails.    We used a simple battery terminal puller to spread the wheels slightly.

Even the notorious Weaver plastic truck frame bolsters/plastic draw bar, were corrected with a slight adjustment.  These trucks, even though they had steel wheels, had slightly larger(width) flanges.

Mike CT

Mike CT posted:

Rayin"S" posted:

Did you try moving those cars that derail forward in your train and put different cars at the rear? I, a short time back, received a new coach and a reefer which derailed on curves and switches. I found the wheels to be out of gauge, after re-gauging the cars were fine.

Ray

The Fort Pitt Highrailers had similar problems.  Surprisingly the wheels usually were too close together and would ride-up on switch and cross over guide rails.    We used a simple battery terminal puller to spread the wheels slightly.

Even the notorious Weaver plastic truck frame bolsters/plastic draw bar, were corrected with a slight adjustment.  These trucks, even though they had steel wheels, had slightly larger(width) flanges.

Mike CT

Thanks Mike and to the rest of you as well, this may actually have lead me to the issue. Several of you suggested I look at the trucks which I did tonight.  It was the observation car that was giving me the most grief and I notice it has more “side to side slack” in how much the axle can move.  I don’t have a battery terminal puller but I will see what else I can try.  Meanwhile I applied a firm grip to the outside of the trucks and just doing that made a difference  

In looking at the other cars I found 2 where the axles were not sitting on the housing so those were easy fixes and have fixed most of my problem!!!!

To ALL of you, I can’t believe how many people  helpfully chimed in. I am very grateful to you all.  This is my first experience with OGR forum and I’m blown away.

 I have just run a consist of 11 aluminum cars successfully. Only issue is that rear observation car intermittently so I will try to see what I can do there. Just applying pressure to the outside of the trucks appeared to have helped as I’ve run several full loops without issue.   

Last question (sorry I’m a newbie), does this style of wheel/truck need oil or not?

Here are some pics of the successful run as well as the issue with axles not in housing.

Thanks again, 

Gerhardt 

Gerhardt,

Welcome to the Forum. Please do not apologize for asking for information, that is what we all come here for, as well as to help others with their questions. We are happy to have you here and I am sure that down the road you are going to be helping others in the hobby with the knowledge you will acquire on your layout as well what you pick up as here, again welcome.

I am not familiar with that particular car but most cars will benefit from lubrication.

Ray

The cars with the brass bearings most certainly need oil.  The ones that normally don't really need it are the needle point axles that run in the plastic bearings, those are self-lubricating.