Is S scale still an option?

If one has the patience for it, S is certainly an option.

Here's some Santa Fe that's been available.

MTH (ex SHS) F3's, S-Helper F7's (unfortunately not currently available,) AM SF Budd cars in the background.

American Models GP9's (still available) w/details added.

American Models 2900 class 4-8-4's (Left, dolled up a little.  Right, straight from the box.  (Still available with scale wheels.)

Plus AM has a Baldwin S12 in zebra stripe and E8's available.  Both S-Helper and MTH offered EMD switchers in Santa Fe

@Jacobpaul81 posted:

..........O is too big for inside running.

All the scales have gotten crazy expensive.

If that's really true (probably not as you can make any scale as expensive as you choose...) then it's not a factor in deciding what scale to pursue.

I've always felt like S was the "right" size but I've been concerned about the viability of it - given lack of manufacturers.

Then you make what you want while scouring the planet for what's been made.....same as in any other scale....and have fun doing it.

@mwb posted:

Then you make what you want while scouring the planet for what's been made.....same as in any other scale....and have fun doing it.

Oh - no doubt that's what'll be happening.   

@Rusty Traque posted:

If one has the patience for it, S is certainly an option.

Here's some Santa Fe that's been available.

MTH (ex SHS) F3's, S-Helper F7's (unfortunately not currently available,) AM SF Budd cars in the background.

American Models GP9's (still available) w/details added.

American Models 2900 class 4-8-4's (Left, dolled up a little.  Right, straight from the box.  (Still available with scale wheels.)

Plus AM has a Baldwin S12 in zebra stripe and E8's available.  Both S-Helper and MTH offered EMD switchers in Santa Fe

Rusty - I've been looking at pictures of your layout for 6 years!  It's too bad I didn't just start in S then.

Those Baldwins are inspiring.  There's nothing in large scale steam approaching accurate for ATSF and the only HO company manufacturing them (BLI) does not inspire much confidence in me - based on the comments from even their most devoted fan base.   

I know MTH is closing.  Has there been any hints at someone picking up the S Helper Line?

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

S scale continues to gain interest due to it's size.

Check out the following:

National Association of S Gaugers at www.nasg.org

S Scale SIG at www.sscale.org

American Models at americanmodels.com

S scale layouts at www.railserve.com

The railserve site lists all of the above and more.

The American Models model of the Santa Fe 2900 class 4-8-4 is a clean machine indeed!

Hope this beginning will be of some help.

Joe

Thank you for these links.  Looks like for ATSF - there are three steam models:

S-Helper :  2-8-0
American models: 4-8-4
River Raisin: 2-8-4

And the S-Helper F7 / F3 / GP9s for my period.  That's way better than 1:32! 

There is always Lionel, this is the Y-3. It was made in two different road numbers, this 1797 and also 1795.

Current auction of American Flyer items:  https://cabinfeverauctions.bid...om/ui/auctions/57392

Two more new Lionel S gauge Santa Fe engines, this time from the wrong era for your layout.

I am going to S scale in 2021, selling all of my HO, O 2&3 rail. Better late than never....

@AmFlyer posted:

There is always Lionel, this is the Y-3. It was made in two different road numbers, this 1797 and also 1795.

It's nice to know Lionel's investing in this scale.

I assume those were produced for the N&W and Virginian modelers - ATSF being a by-product.  I think lifelike did the same in HO. It's an odd choice for Santa Fe.  I guess if you're modelling raton circa 43-47, you'd have to have them.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

Current auction of American Flyer items:  https://cabinfeverauctions.bid...om/ui/auctions/57392

Are the AF and S-Helper all pretty week scale or is the AF more toy-like high rail.  I have zero knowledge here.

Gilbert S gauge is scale size but the level of detail varies. It would not be considered true scale detail level. Current Lionel varies but many of the engines are well detailed. All require at least .138 rail, they will not run on code 100. The AM and SHS/MTH are well detailed and available with scale wheels. True scale detailed engines are made by River Raisin but these start at $2.500, DCC not included.

@Jacobpaul81 posted:

Are the AF and S-Helper all pretty week scale or is the AF more toy-like high rail.  I have zero knowledge here.

Here is a comparison of a Postwar Flyer boxcar with an SHS double sheathed boxcar:

It takes a little work to convert a Flyer car to scale, but it does add a little variety.  Here's some conversions I did way back in the 80's when I entered S.  I'll admit nowadays I probably wouldn't bother converting Traditional Postwar-Style Flyer to scale:

Are they perfect?  No, but once the 5 foot rule is activated, they fit in just fine.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Here is a comparison of a Postwar Flyer boxcar with an SHS double sheathed boxcar:

It takes a little work to convert a Flyer car to scale, but it does add a little variety.  Here's some conversions I did way back in the 80's when I entered S.  I'll admit nowadays I probably wouldn't bother converting Traditional Postwar-Style Flyer to scale:

Are they perfect?  No, but once the 5 foot rule is activated, they fit in just fine.

Rusty

Thanks for the photos Rusty!  That's very helpful.  I assume the American Models freight / passenger cars are in line with the SHS?    For scale operation, what kind of minimum radius am I looking at? 

The older AM freight cars tooled up in the 80's have slightly less detail than SHS, but are fine.  It doesn't take much to upgrade them.  Most of the boxcars in the previous photo backgrounds are AM's.

The practical minimum for scale operation I would place at 27" radius.  That's about equivalent to 18" radius in HO.

I was using 33" and 29" radius on my old layout.  It still allowed me to operate AM's 85' scale passenger cars with body mounted couplers.

I also has a 27" radius on a siding for testing purposes.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

The older AM freight cars tooled up in the 80's have slightly less detail than SHS, but are fine.  It doesn't take much to upgrade them.  Most of the boxcars in the previous photo backgrounds are AM's.

The practical minimum for scale operation I would place at 27" radius.  That's about equivalent to 18" radius in HO.

I was using 33" and 29" radius on my old layout.  It still allowed me to operate AM's 85' scale passenger cars with body mounted couplers.

I also has a 27" radius on a siding for testing purposes.

Rusty

You say "old layout".  What's your current minimum radius?  It's sounding like over 33" is best.  I have the room (I've got a 20 x 24 space I'm looking at developing out. 

If you can, I would suggest 36"R minimum.  There were some things that I couldn't run with 33"R.

My current minimum radius is zero.  I'm between layouts right now because I moved.

However, the Great Plywood Glacier was more or less 12'x18'.

It came tumbling down in March of this year .

30 years a WIP, 3 days to destroy.

Rusty

That was sad news when Rusty had to dismantle the Great Plywood Glacier. We enjoyed seeing the pictures taken on that layout.

20'x24' is a generous size room for an around the walls layout. Mine is 17'x21', I chose 30" as the minimum radius but I am not using body mounted couplers or running large River Raisin engines. If I had a 20'x24' space I would have used a 36" minimum radius exactly as Rusty advises. All my mainline turnouts are #6 or #8. Only freight sidings and the freight yard use #5 turnouts.

Here are some thoughts/opinions on things you asked about as well as others:

- Continuation of MTH's S scale line - There are recent rumors that a group of employees will be buying out MTH, but I have nearly zero hope that even if they do that they will continue S scale products.

- Freight & passenger cars

• In S there are only three manufacturers making ready-to-run non-brass rolling stock, Lionel-American Flyer (LAF), American Models (AM) and S Scale America (SSA sold by Des Plaines Hobbies http://www.desplaineshobbies.c...22/Railroad-S-Scale/).  MTH still has some leftovers and they are supposed to make the S stuff from their last catalogue before closing shop. But there is also lots of rolling stock available on ebay and elsewhere from out-of-business companies like SHS, Pacific Rail Shops (PRS), and Downs.
• For freight, SHS, MTH and SSA are all excellent. The AM stuff is great and they have a huge selection for our little S scale market, but slightly less detailed than the three aforementioned.  The LAF stuff, except for the cylindrical hoppers which do not match your modeling era, is all hi-rail with trucks, wheels and couplers that bear no resemblance to reality.  With some customization and some specialty products you can change the trucks and couplers.
• As for passenger cars in non-brass, your only choice for something decent is AM and some of the old SHS passenger cars which are harder to find.  AM has streamlined Budd cars and heavyweights.  Their web page has good pictures of these http://www.americanmodels.com/.
• Couplers is another decision you’ll need to make.  Kadee 802/808 are the most common.  You can also use Kadee HO #5’s which are compatible with the 802/808’s as are the San Juan ON30 Evolution couplers which are very realistic but a little big looking for some modelers. I use the Kadee 802/808’s and the San Juan Evolutions.

- Track

• There is scale only track and then there is track that accommodates both scale and hi-rail.
• If you are seeking true prototypical scale track, then the options are limited and most true scale folks actually hand lay the rail and ties themselves. If you want scale flex track, then http://www.tomalcotrack.net/ or https://www.custmtrax.com/index.html are probably your best bets. Both of them sell turnouts too.  I don’t know if either of have much inventory.
• However, my strong recommendation is that you go with code 138 rail which will accommodate hi-rail and scale.  There is a much greater supply of flex track in this size and they are interchangeable.  Products are readily available from Fox Valley Models (FVM), MTH and the former S Helper Service (SHS).  Furthermore you can get good scale turnouts from FVM and they have plenty in stock.  They also make hi-rail turnouts which can be modified to accommodate both types of wheels but they are currently out of stock and being manufactured. When I eventually do my layout expansion it will be all code 138 flex track with 33" radii curves to accommodate brass steamers with scale wheels and FVM hi-rail turnouts that I will modify to accommodate both types of wheels.
• Curve radius - This really is a matter of what you want to run.  I agree with Rusty though that if you do 36" you should be able to run just about anything ever made in S with the possible exception of some of the largest brass steamers from the likes of Overland and Sunset.

S scale in general

• I love S scale.  The product selection is FAR, FAR less than HO or 3-rail O, and there is nearly zero new stuff coming out in S.  But the size is fantastic.  I initially wanted to do O, but having space to do an interesting layout drove me to look at S.  I knew I didn’t want to do HO because it is too small for me to do the repairs, customizations and kit construction that I want to do.
• And regarding the selection, while much smaller than the popular scales, I have spent $thousands, and yet there is still plenty out there in the first or second-hand markets that I like but don’t own, particularly in brass.  So I am not that worried about it.  I suspect in 20 years there will be no new S scale coming out other than from some of the small kit makers, but I will still be having fun with working on what I have and probably buying from the second hand market, especially (and sadly) as estate sales of train collections seem to be coming more frequent.

- The reference to a Cabin Fever Auction above - Don't bother.  There are less than 5 items that would be of interest to a scale modeler and all of them are modern L-AF diesels that don't match the era you are modeling.