Is this usual for mail order?

Seems reasonable to me. It's an "old" item that the manufacturer no longer warranties (and shouldn't), and, so long as the shop is up front about it, this is a proper policy.

I do not know what you paid for it, but one of the reasons older stock can be cheaper stock is that it can have less value to the customer - in the form of no warranty, for example, along with repeated handling dings and electronic "shelf death" (just made that one up; I like it).

Some shops may offer older-item return warranties, of course, but that is just icing on the cake. 

I haven't paid anything for it. I'm just trying to figure out if this is SOP. Thanks for your answer.

Would seem normal unless the shop still wants the price they were asking when it was under warranty.

But there was an auction in Nebraska and someone paid about $150,000 for a 1958 (brand new, never titled, no miles) Chevy pickup with a big dent in the roof.

So...who knows.

You must decide weather it's worth it or not....my bet is you can find it on ebay for less and if DOA return it. 

if its an engine you really desire, post the item number up here. this way, all the guys familiar with that unit can tell you more about it. (and potential issues) as far as the HS policy, If the locomotive is out of warranty I can see why they would have to have that policy in place, as they could get burned with possible expensive repairs or, having to give a full refund. its all gonna boil down to how bad you want it, and how much you have to give for it (and possibly work on it) ......

Surely it is up to them to test whether or not the loco actually works.  If they aren't prepared to do that I would be very suspicious that they are doubtful as t whether it works. Bottom line is how keen are you to spend good money on what may well be an expensive paperweight?  I would have thought good customer service would encourage them to provide you with a more helpful/encouraging response.

Personally, I would never do business with a HS that would not take back for a full refund a NIB engine that was DOA, even though the manufacturer's warranty has expired. It would be another thing if it were used, but not for a NIB.

You should also ask them to put it on their test track and verify that it operates as intended.

My $ .02

I have to sing with Richie, pass it by.  It's their right to offer it that way, and it's your right to simply pass on the deal.  The only way I'd buy it if it was dirt cheap and I would clearly be getting a good deal, even if I had to do some work to get it running.

Most of the out of warranty engines from popular dealers are not cheap at all. It seems like the thinking is "sold out" and "rare". And I don't think there are any bargains in ebay. Mostly the prices are high also and have the flavor of "not easy to find unused". If it's something you really want and finally found one...then the price is probably right.

Unless it's a real good deal or the HS will take it out of the box and test it on there dime not mine I would say no. 

cjack posted:

And I don't think there are any bargains in ebay. Mostly the prices are high

 

That kinda depends....I am 100% conventional and find deals all the time. There is no way I'd bought the Lionel WM 3 truck Shay new. But mint in box first run version was $400 and it looked like it was never out of the box. Same for a Lionel UP Big Boy...mint and cheap!! I have bought dead locos too....knowing they were and willing to fix them.....it's how I got a MTH Premier Rio Grande GP-30 for a total outlay of less than $100......

So while I agree there are lots of folks wanting collector price for common items....plenty of deals out there. 

If it were any other manufacturer I'd say it could be a gamble but being the engine in question is an MTH I wouldn't be worried at all. The deciding factor for me would come down to the price of the engine.

If the hobby shop test the engine it can no longer be advertised or sold as new.

harmonyards posted:

if its an engine you really desire, post the item number up here. this way, all the guys familiar with that unit can tell you more about it. (and potential issues) as far as the HS policy, If the locomotive is out of warranty I can see why they would have to have that policy in place, as they could get burned with possible expensive repairs or, having to give a full refund. its all gonna boil down to how bad you want it, and how much you have to give for it (and possibly work on it) ......

It's from this series, 2013. GG-1 Rail King.

https://mthtrains.com/railking/spotlight/06_2015/e

No return terms seem reasonable to me.  Hobby shop legitimately would not be able to offer as new in box once you removed from the box or they removed to test for you.  However, the 30-5129 series was delivered in September 2013, so it still falls within MTH's five-year warranty limit unless the hobby shop is not an MTH-authorized retailer or purchased from the original owner.

If you feel good about the deal, go for it.

If you are nervous or skittish, pass it up.

hobby-go-lucky posted:

No return terms seem reasonable to me.  Hobby shop legitimately would not be able to offer as new in box once you removed from the box or they removed to test for you.  However, the 30-5129 series was delivered in September 2013, so it still falls within MTH's five-year warranty limit unless the hobby shop is not an MTH-authorized retailer or purchased from the original owner.

Ah. I thought 2013 made it out of warranty. That's another matter. Thank you for that info.

It's a relief that the product in question isn't much older than it is, and not just because it happens to be under warranty. Because it was made in 2013, it's equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0, meaning you won't have to deal with replacing a Proto-Sound 2.0 battery right out of the box. Granted, that issue isn't expensive to address, but is somewhat of an annoyance. Thank god for capacitors.

On a different note, I agree with the no returns/exchanges/etc policy. However, I think that dealers should still be able to sell products new if they have been tested. While all dealers should be confident in the products they sell, sometimes things just don't cooperate right out of the box. It's true that customers should know about quality control issues, but I wouldn't wish having to experience some of the things we have seen in 3 rail on anyone. Now when it comes to technicalities, a fair amount of products are actually tested at the factory before shipment to the dealer, so technically those products can't be sold as new. Yes, I do realize this somewhat defeats the purpose of my argument, but shippers these days aren't too careful. You never know what each product is like until you test it. Each tested "new" product looks new and most tests only last 4-5 minutes tops.

I have purchased many engines that were new-in-box, and clearly out of warranty.  Some were 20+ years old when  I purchased them  All ran, but I had to do maintenance and some repairs on them. The loco you are considering will probably be okay, but may need a new battery.  I'd suggest springing for a BCR replacement instead of a battery.  You  can use a 9 volt for starters, just to see if the loco still operates.  I never had an MTH loco, that was listed as new in box fail upon receipt.

However, I think that dealers should still be able to sell products new if they have been tested. 

The problem is that there are still a significant number of people to whom new means never removed from its unopened box.

A common description seems to be "test run only", but how much running would be ok? A couple of inches back and forth on a test track? A few minutes on a roller stand? Or an hour on a layout? I don't know of an agreed upon definition. 

Ironically - when buying, "Sealed NIB" might as well mean "untested, as-is"

And - I would NEVER sell a sealed train - sorry, I'm opening it!

I think whatever perception of value the "seal" brings is countered by the assurance of "test run."

Plus - it avoids problems for me when a sealed product doesn't work.

Example: I've been sitting on a set of sealed K-Line F7s.

Got these at one of the big train auction houses a year ago. Finally broke the seal this weekend!

The A units worked fine - but one of the B-units power trucks was locked up solid and would derail immediately.

I was able to free it up with screwdriver pressure on the brass gear - works fine now.

But that's the kind of thing that could cause problems if I sold this set as "Sealed NIB"

Roving Sign posted:

Ironically - when buying, "Sealed NIB" might as well mean "untested, as-is"

And - I would NEVER sell a sealed train - sorry, I'm opening it!

I think whatever perception of value the "seal" brings is countered by the assurance of "test run."

Plus - it avoids problems for me when a sealed product doesn't work.

Example: I've been sitting on a set of sealed K-Line F7s.

Got these at one of the big train auction houses a year ago. Finally broke the seal this weekend!

The A units worked fine - but one of the B-units power trucks was locked up solid and would derail immediately.

I was able to free it up with screwdriver pressure on the brass gear - works fine now.

But that's the kind of thing that could cause problems if I sold this set as "Sealed NIB"

 

In  some instances, it doesn't matter how old, or, how long something has sat on the shelf as new, still sealed.   This B unit may have been bad since the day it was assembled, and shelf life had nothing to do with it.  We all take a chance when we buy something that is out of warranty.   That's just it, you are taking a chance, and you may or may not get a perfect item.  I accept that, and make my choice upon my best judgment.   Usually, I will ask the seller if he or she could test it for me.  If they decline, I'll usually pass.  

I just had a Lionel GP-7 that would not negotiate a turn on my O-31 tubular track,  The seller had tested it on Atlas O-42 track, and it ran fine.  I found that the powered truck was hanging on the mounting screws.  So, I filed down the truck side frames where they were hanging up, underneath the motor frame.  And, things worked out fine.  

I generally look for a history on the item. If it worked fine out of the box for anyone, then it'll be fixable if necessary. On the other hand, if it's plastic gears strip pulling a reasonable number of cars, then I would pass. Unless I wanted to spend 8 hours replacing them with the brass ones. And, there are still some of those Niagara engines on the shelf at one dealer I noticed awhile back.