Scale Daylight Models - A Photo Sharing Thread and Discussion on Accuracy

John, you'd need Lionel's Shasta Daylight passenger set that would match the PA-1 diesels.  Another option is to pair the SP/UP Heritage SD70ACe diesel with the Shasta Daylight passenger set.  Even though it's not prototypical, it's a great match.   Either of those diesels would be a good match to the Shasta Daylight passenger cars -- but not the Coastal Daylight cars (which match up nicely with Lionel's SP Daylight steamers).

David

I think I would also agree with the one who worked with these engines and all the maintenance, operations...and colors that went with that.  Maybe some "mere mortal" mixed the wrong paint shades before a particular Shasta, or a Coast Daylight was painted.  All that's being pointed out here is that "officially" there was no difference in the two Daylight's paint shades.  There was no belligerence...only as much persistence as there was with those who thought there were different shades.

I have the kline versonof this locomotive.It is the freedom train paint.It has a really cool sounding whistle.I know it is a passnger train but I pull freight with mine.I have had it pull a 43 boxcars.Very powerful locomotive and a good runner.I am very happy with mine.

You'd be wrong. Especially in this thread.

David, thank you for the information.  However, I was hoping to use the streamlined cars, that I already have, which match the GS-2 colors.

Well, I don't have any idea what you mean about "not going to give up." Please calmly read what I wrote. I already said several times that I don't care what the colors were. I have no vested interest in what the Shasta colors were. I'm just doing a little sleuthing to figure it out  and looking for some evidence one way or another.

I have no doubt you guys got the 4449 colors right on the money. I know it took a lot of effort, and it was important to get it right. They're beautiful. No need to be defensive about that. That's not in dispute.

But the colors of the 4449 are not really the question.

All I'm asking is only what any investigator or anyone else would naturally ask, which is: As to the colors of the Shasta when it was running during the diesel era - why isn't there any evidence whatsoever, in the SP's ads or picture releases or in any photographs by anyone at all, showing that the diesels or the passenger cars they hauled were the same color as the 4449? Because every single piece of SP ad literature and every single photo that's out there shows they're a different color.

Again, I don't personally care one way or another. In fact, I really hope someone can confirm that the 4449-type colors were on the diesel-era equipment and on the Shasta cars. I don't know why the SP would have changed them, unless it was that the revised colors were easier to maintain and didn't show dirt and grime so much.

In investigator's terms , I'm not saying there was or wasn't a murder. But if you say there was one, where's the body?  I'd just like to see some pictures or SP literature or ads showing the steam engine Daylight colors being used on the diesels and the cars they pulled. Even freight diesels that were painted in "Daylight," let's see some photos. If engines like those shown in the photo below were ever painted in the same colors as the 4449, with the same brilliant orange paint, surely someone would have a picture of it.

Please be aware that the Shasta Daylight was started in 1949 with EMD E7 A-B-B consists, and quickly changed to the new Alco PA models. Thus, I don't really understand your fixation on the "diesel era", since the SP received both EMD E7 units AND Alco PA units, painted in the SAME red & orange Daylight passenger colors, that were also used on the GS steam locomotives and all streamline passenger cars.

Any diesel painted in "Daylight colors" in the 1980s, is totally irrelevant to ANY discussion about the Famous Shasta Daylight, or any of the other Coast Daylight passenger trains inaugurated in 1938. 

Granted your picture shows a muddy orange - pictures do not always reproduce colors accurately.  The PAs and E-7s all came through my back yard in 1949 and 1950, very far away from Dunsmuir, in Fairbank Arizona.  They looked the same color to me, as did the coaches that followed them and the Northerns.  At that time, the passenger trains were quite mixed up, with heavyweight Pullmans, corrugated Daylight cars, and Rock Island Rocket and Golden State cars all in the same train.  Steam and Diesel were also quite mixed up.  A lot of Daylight Northerns were "lost" in Arizona at that point.  By 1952 most steam had gone to the west coast.

Good grief, there's no "fixation on the diesel era." It's just that the only place we find evidence of the different Daylight color, in SP literature and in photos, is during the diesel era. Which is what the Shasta used for power.

For the umpteenth time, I really don't care what color the Shasta was painted. I'm merely raising the point that if it was the same colors as the GS steamers, it's odd that SP used different colors in its advertising showing diesel Daylights, and those same colors appear in photos, at least all that have shown up so far.

I hope someone will produce a photo or some SP publicity or ad information showing the Daylight diesels in the same color as the GS steamers. That would be great! Of course, if we find it, we still won't know why SP chose to use different colors in their advertising.  Seems pretty odd.

But it does show show that SP did indeed change those colors; they didn't always keep them the same, as some have claimed. When they did changes, who knows? Maybe they changed them for the Shasta, maybe not. But they didn't always keep them the same, it appears. But it's all speculation on my part; as with anything, I certainly may be wrong. Just looking at the evidence, that's all.

The Shasta Daylight wasn't considered a Coast Daylight, I don't believe. Different train, different era. The Shasta wasn't inaugurated until July 10, 1949. The Coastal Daylights were inaugurated on March 1, 1937, over 12  years earlier.

Just why do you keep referring to them as the "Coastal Daylights"?

He something to think about. Some how , I don't  think that when the advertising agency that they used and the person that aproved the ad campaign had the color chips to insure that the ink used matched. Also , if you look at pics from the late 40s and 50s have a slight tint to them compared to todays pics. You also have to account for human error mixing paint. Bottom line this Isn't rocket science .

You may be exactly right about the colors, Bob. Great information. Interesting to hear about Arizona. I'm not sure how far east the Daylight steam engines went - maybe as far as Houston? I don't think they made it to New Orleans. There was a SP train that used Daylight colors, the Sunbeam, which used Pacifics, and ran between Dallas and Houston for a time.

Yes, there are indeed many references to the "Coast Daylights". The key word is ALWAYS "Coast"!  NOT "Costal (sic)"!!!!  

Every single reference to posted about correctly uses the key word "Coast", and NOT "Coastal (sic)", which you alone came up with.

Sorry it confused you.

I'm in hot water with Hot Water, apparently.

This may not put your mind at ease.  There are some excellent color books available.  I have in my lap the Morning Sun Vol 3 SP Color guide. Page 67 has a pair of Coast Daylight coaches attached to a Shasta triple diner.  No discernible difference in colors.

i suspect Vols 1&2 have more Daylight painted cars, but so far I have not put them in my collection.

I like the Daylight so much, I went to California a few years ago and got inside the locomotive and met and spent the afternoon with Doyle McCormack.

Here is a video of mine. Great pics everyone!

Cesar

Great video Cesar!

I also just found the horn feature on these locos. It was more fun to use than it had any right to be 

And if you like to operate realistically, the horn would be the norm for grade crossings, not the whistle.

Does anyone have any thoughts about whether the new Legacy GS-2 offers any improvements over the previous Legacy GS-4? I don't know if anyone has been in a position to compare them.

I'm looking to get one of these engines (GS-4 from the secondary market, of course).

A book with beautiful photographs is "Daylight Reflections" by Nils Huxtable.

Although it is pretty much all "modern era" I believe, but EVERYTHING Nils ever did is truly spectacular! Nils is/was an excellent photographer, and the color printing & reproduction in all his books and calendars is always top quality. 

Bump.  You all do know that the Golden State is famous not only for gold, but also for poppies?  A field of golden poppies approximates the Daylight orange.

I'm sure everyone's seen this one from Lionel....

Also why it's the state flower.

If I don't have the term(s) correct here, hopefully it won't offend anyone, but I too have the Lionel GS-4 and am considering painting the "handrails on the boiler front" black.  Were they ever the silver color that Lionel equipped them with?

Thanks. 

From this photo, it appears the boilerfront handrails on the GS-2s were silver at least at some time; it seems logical that they would have been on the GS-4s at some point as well, although in those photos that I've seen, they're black.

If I'm not mistaken that photo was taken the day of the Daylight debut, either LA (Train 99) or San Francisco. I think there were dual opening day ceremonies at both cities. Likely dressed up for the event the paint scheme may have soon changed. Easier to keep black clean than silver.

Pete

Yes, agreed. On the other hand, they had the entire boilerfront painted silver, and kept it that way. And the silver handrails blend in with the silver boilerfront better. I don't know what the history is, and I don't have any SP books with photos to refer to.

I have both of these. The biggest difference is the whistle. The GS-4 has a very distinctive whistle, probably more true to real whistle. The GS-2 has some added creaking sounds and other slow speed sounds going on that the GS-4 does not.

Here ya go - Daylight orange

That snake is the Greek's watering hose.  These things grow wild most years, but this year they are very scarce and delicate.

The orange I see on many models may track photographs, but I believe it is an incorrect color.

i do hope to own a Lionel GS- 2 at some point.  It will get gutted, 2- railed, and probably repainted.

This is Scale Coat.  It matches the SP color chips, and I believe it is the closest.  Not saying that the digital repro is accurate, but it looks pretty close on my iPad.

Loco is a 17/64 GS-2.  Boiler is copper, rest brass.

Thanks for the information. I thought there would be changes made to parts of the Legacy electronics in the 4 years since the GS-4 came out, but some of those (other than some sounds) may be difficult to recognize. I wasn't sure if the quality of the sound had improved.

Does the GS-4 have the infrared transmitter for communication with the new SensorTrack? Not sure when they started putting that in Legacy engines. 

There's quite a bit of difference between that and some actual photos of 4449, however. Of course, can't you can't apples to apples compare because of many factors, including computer screen differences, but the orange shades are quite different.

And one of Nick's photos of his new Lionel GS-2 - pretty much the same as the photo with the brighter orange.

Golly Nick - starting 4 pages now!

Perhaps this will catch the terrific thread on GG1s someday....

Getting some inspiration from Bob's photo, here's the Lionel TMCC GS-2 in actual Florida daylight. Please note the gorgeous trash bin I forgot to move out of the background.

The point is, you'll notice the orange in particular turns a whole lot brighter (only a few shades short of gold) under direct sunlight.

Ya never know. I certainly did not expect the informative and intense debate on color this thread spawned.