Just wondering about what led to the price fall on post war trains?

As mentioned, once someone reaches their mid-40's (men for the most part), they start yearning for their 'toys' from earlier days.  It's a rolling range.  I see this with old cars too.  I noticed now that the late 1970's Pontiac Trans-Ams are fetching more money than my 1971 Plymouth RoadRunner.  You can buy a fully-restored functional Ford Model A for $10,000.  Not a lot of people left who remember these from their younger days!

Another interesting idea someone mentioned somewhere:  The current sports cars should become the collector cars in the future.  A problem is that nobody will be reproducing the computerized components found in today's cars (and cars from the mid-1980's onward).  This may not sound big, but a lot of guys are into collecting cars as originally delivered.

You will always have a smaller crowd that still appreciates (appreciates enough to purchase) items that pre-date their childhood.  I really like Standard Gauge, but compared to other scales, definitely a niche market.

@Mannyrock posted:

Here is another reason that Modern Engines won't be running 40 years from now:

Their circuit boards won't survive the EMP wave from "The Great Nuclear Missile Incident of 2039."

OMG! I was planning to live to 150!

Any collectible will go in cycles but many of the things that folks collect in general have changed. I don't think we should ever compare the 90s prices to anything else, on any collectible. Remember when comic books exploded in the 90s? What about Beanie Babies? I think these days we are dealing with more realistic prices like before that 90s explosion.

Just my thoughts.

I see the same trend in musical instruments.  A Roland Jupiter 8 synthesizer that came out in 1981 for about $2000 I bought used for $500 in 1992.  Sold it in 1998 for about the same.  Value today - $15,000.  A 1975 vintage Oberheim I got for nothing in 1987 is now in the $6,000 range.  It is because analog synthesis is back in pop music and everybody wants one.  The value will go back down once that fad has passed.  As a prog-rocker I'm never in style so these instruments will sometime be affordable for me again.

My 1981 Gibson Victory bass goes now for $1000 and up.  I got mine in 1991 for $250 and mine is a fretless.  Good luck in finding one of those these days.  When the Victory line came out it was considered a "budget" line.

Back to keys, my Rhodes 73 had a value of $250 as recently as the early 2000's and now runs about $2-$3 K.   Collecting in general is cyclical.

As has probably been mentioned in this thread many times is that there is LOTS of post war Lionel that was produced.  In general postwar Lionel is not hard to come by. Only the rarest pieces in the best condition continue to command value.

All of my postwar are on shelves and/or behind glass.  I even look at them occasionally.

Jonathan, when we pulled CMX out I gave away six eight track reel to reel machines that tied for audio with the CMX. They were Tascam and two were backup with no miles on them. A small studio grabbed them in a hot second. He told me he had clients that only wanted to record on tape....Kind of wish I kept a couple of them. Don

@AlanRail posted:

All of my postwar are on shelves and/or behind glass.  I even look at them occasionally.

Boo Alan, Boo!  Run them!!!

I really love command control.  But, if I end up having issues with electronics that become too much of a hassle, I'll start buying postwar stuff!

I wasn't into O-scale in the 90's.  Anyone get caught up in (and willing to admit) the high prices during that time?

@Frank Mulligan posted:

I wasn't into O-scale in the 90's.  Anyone get caught up in (and willing to admit) the high prices during that time?

I do remember the "What will it be worth in 5 years" frenzy off the mid-late 80's and getting partially caught up in it.  Fortunately, when out of necessity I had to sell my MPC and Postwar in the early 90's, I just about broke even.

Rusty

Don,

Those machines are great machines.  I'd be scared to check value now.   It's funny how we put value on items.  I still have a Walensack all in one 1/4" reel to reel with a reversible head for 2 track each direction at 1/16" per track or a two track one direction at 1/8" per track.  It was my grandfathers from the late 50's or early 60's.  I haven't used it in some time, but it makes good quality recordings.  My multi-track studio now is pro-tools light as I'm just an amateur pretending to be rock star.  It's not the same.  Digital doesn't render my Rhodes with a distortion pedal as well as an analog recorder.

I'm even playing digital electronic drums these days so I don't annoy the rest of my household quite as much as I used to.

To follow up on the cyclical nature of collecting, I just looked at prices for Yamaha's breakthrough DX7 from about 1983.  It was the first all digital and affordable FM synthesis synthesizer at around $2K new.  EVERY 80's recording that was in the pop and rock realm used these.  They are out of style now and I can get a used one for about $350 which is close to what I paid for my mini-me entry level small key version DX100 new in 1987.  

Will postwar come back in value?  I still believe most pieces won't.  There was a time when even trash Lionel PW had value.

NH Joe: Sorry, my train arrived late at Delay Junction.

Who emptied the Jim Beam cannisters that had their seals broken before you sold the set?

Are there any other members who own the large scale Jim Beam decanter set?  Complete is understood.

Joe (...another one?  Gads, what a thought...)

Seems like a guy could find a nice 665 for a decent deal if he was so inclined.

What destroyed train value over the years is the same thing thats keeping it barely alive today. China.   

@JC642 posted:

What destroyed train value over the years is the same thing thats keeping it barely alive today. China.   

Thanks to these hi-tech monster steam engines, the 700E now wishes to hide in the closet

@RamblerDon posted:

Any collectible will go in cycles but many of the things that folks collect in general have changed. I don't think we should ever compare the 90s prices to anything else, on any collectible. Remember when comic books exploded in the 90s? What about Beanie Babies? I think these days we are dealing with more realistic prices like before that 90s explosion.

Just my thoughts.

What about baseball cards. Remember that? Late 80s. My son was into it. Buying whole sets. Everyone was trying to find the next hot rookie card after the Mickey Mantle rookie cards went off the charts.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

You can buy a fully-restored functional Ford Model A for $10,000.  Not a lot of people left who remember these from their younger days!

I've never seen a fully restored Model A for $10,000.  No way.  One in need of a bit of restoration but a good driver...sure.  But I do agree that they have definitely gone down in value where the muscle cars have shot up.

@Will posted:

What about baseball cards. Remember that? Late 80s. My son was into it. Buying whole sets. Everyone was trying to find the next hot rookie card after the Mickey Mantle rookie cards went off the charts.

I co owned a comic shop a few years back. People still think baseball cards are a retirement plan. Hockey cards are the biggest loser though.

Everything that goes boom always go bust also.

@Lenny the Lion posted:

Thanks to these hi-tech monster steam engines, the 700E now wishes to hide in the closet

Now that is sad. On my basement sized layout I have more fun with my American made tmcc 90s era trains that sat idle for years then I ever did with the imports . What I havent sold has become the new shelf queens

Unless you're a really good fantasizer,  I have found that large expensive scale models and especially oversized rolling stock look wonderful on a shelf but quickly lose their charm running on a toy train layout sized for traditional trains.  Dust off your classic 700e and enjoy it. 

Probably a few things led to this.    First the old guys who remember the PW stuff being must have in the 50s are just that, old guys like me   - - - or gone.     So a strong interest group is not much there.  

Second, the PW stuff is not very realistic by "modern" standards.   They are not really very good scale models.    They were nice in the day, because we did not see much that was more to scale.    So the new generations of people with interest in trains, want more to scale and less to toys.

Third, the younger people like the electronics much better and search for more and more electronic whizbangs.   The old PW stuff was great mechanically and easy to maintain and repair.    But the younger people are not so interested in the mechanicals, more in the electronics.

@Will posted:

I have noticed that people begin to get nostalgic for the totems of their youth when they are in their 40s. This jibes with the general recycling of and nostalgia for fashion and pop culture after about a 25 year span. Many early boomers- the postwar Lionel generation- got interested in Lionel trains again in the late 80s and 90s. ( myself included) So that became the peak era of postwar collectors.

TRAIN-GUY/GAL ALERT: You MUST visit Will's art site. He is a truly astonishing artist and you'll be glad to see what this guy who also loves trains can do in art. Absolutely one-of-a-kind... go to: <https://willrothfuss.com/collage-and-paint>

JC642:  Right on!

What I don't understand is the $$$ some guys spend on PW trains?  Most were mass produced and I could give a roundhouse cat's* rear end for a rare 6464 that has an additional row of rivets.  Are you really serious for goodness sakes?

The Post War and probably Korean War era toy train operators and collectors are starting to drop like flies.  This Corona Mess ain't helping either.  I collected pennies back in the early 60s.  I now regret I didn't start to collect silver dollars instead.  As far as trains go, I went from Marx wind-ups to Lionel O27, HO, even tried Z and G in the 90s.

Though health issues have turned me into a first class armchair model railroader,  I now sit in front of my magic motion picture machine (computer) and watch videos of all the OGR member's layouts and still catch the spirit I had when I ran my own trains.  Thanks to all of you for sharing your trains with fellow members.  You're all a great bunch of guys and gals that $$$ can't buy!

A Healthy & Happy Holiday Season everyone.

Godspeed

Joe

* Be sure to check out Dirt, the Nevada Northern RR Museum locomotive repair shop cat.  Also, the photos of NN SD7 #401, where you'll see a really neat O scale SD7.  It too is a real Cool Cat as well!  www.nnry.com will take you there.

I think I'm happiest when I see the wonder, awe and beauty in everything, including toy and model trains.

IMO, this is sometimes not easy to do. Arnold

Scale Rail,

I was always an Ampex fan myself... but I could work magic with that splicing block in a hot second!

Jon

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I think I'm happiest when I see the wonder, awe and beauty in everything, including toy and model trains.

IMO, this is sometimes not easy to do. Arnold

Your profundity, sir, is without limit. 

John