K-line Shay problem?

If it has cruise control, the encoder ring or encoder on the motor is a likely suspect.  Have you checked closely to see if all of that is in place and no wires are loose or disconnected?

You have two problems, the speed control has nothing to do with the sound, it's strictly a function of the R2LC and DCDR-S motor driver boards.

The sound boards are the two RailSounds boards.  The first thing I do for such sound issues is reseat the two PLCC chips on the RS board and also reseat the boards and connectors.

If all else fails, the ERR Cruise Commander M is a direct replacement for the motor driver board and doesn't use the encoder wheel to regulate speed.  It's a popular replacement, however that won't do anything for the sound.

Thank you JOHN,

   I will take a look again at the boards and also the flywheel.  Should I take everthing off the sound board blow it out and replace everything?  I hope it works.

For the encoder, you need to check closely on the motor head to see if the encoder is loose or the ring is damaged.  Also, the plug that comes off the encoder should be reseated to insure a good connection.  Truthfully, one of the things I do for this kind of issue is reseat all the connectors.

There are two RS boards, the amplifier and power supply for RailSounds.  Either of them will cause the sounds to die, but my experience has been it's more likely the amplifier board, it has the logic to actually generate the sounds.

Important note:  If you are going to try to reseat the two PLCC chips, do NOT try to pry them out with anything but the correct extraction tool!  I got one at Radio Shack.

PLCC Extraction Tool

What exactly is the problem with the sound? At one point you say it "cut out," elsewhere you say it doesn't come on when the engine is addressed. Did the sound just stop working completely and now it won't come on when you start up?

Are you sure you did the correct number reset according to K-Line's instructions? The reset procedure for a K-Line engine with cruise is different from a normal TMCC reset. 

There is a known bug in the K-Line Shay where the sound cuts out above a certain speed and only will come back on when you slow way down. Then you can speed up again and the sound will stay on unless you pass the threshold speed. When K-Line was still around, mine went back to K-Line and had the boards replaced and it still did it. Finally the service manager found out it was a bug and the engineers hadn't bothered to tell him about it. He was a bit P.O.'d, to say the least. I got to know the guy pretty well while we were trying to figure that one out.

I wonder if the same problem that is causing the speed runaway might also be fooling the sound system into thinking it's going fast when it really isn't. I don't know enough about TMCC to be sure if that's physically possible, maybe the Gunrunner can figure that out. The K-Line Shay is a kind of unique problem because the system is kind of a mouse job - the TMCC boards were modified to fit in the small space and the sound board itself is a fiddled version of the one from a 4-4-2, since Lionel wouldn't sell K-Line a proper Shay sound board. The Lionel sound boards for a Shay are now available from Lionel; I installed one in mine and it sounds a lot better. I got mine from OGR member Boxcar Bill, AKA Modern Toy Train Parts.

I can't imagine the speed being dependent on the sound, but since that's a unique package, I'd have to see it to be 100% sure.  I've truthfully never had a K-Line Shay apart, but I've worked on a lot of other K-Line TMCC stuff.  I'm assuming the sound is still the RailSounds 2 board set.  I think most of the space issues in small locomotives were dealt with with unique mounting for the R2LC and motor driver board, sometimes the connecting motherboard was an odd shape.

I hears someone else talk about the sound cutout at higher speeds, one wonders what that's about.   I'm having trouble with how that could happen.

Check what's in there, or I'm sure that Bill will be able to tell you.  I don't have a reference for that locomotive.  Can you take a picture with enough detail to identify the boards, preferably laying out on a table?  I'm assuming they're the standard RS4 boards and an R2LC, but I don't know for sure.

The main sound board is an RS4 board for a 4-4-2, modified to produce a faster exhaust sound for the Shay. A regular Lionel Shay board will substitute just fine, although it's a bit of work to get the old one out. I'm pretty sure it's a standard R2LC as well. I know nothing about the power board since I've never had to mess with that part of my Shay. 

The "power" board I'm talking about is the companion to the RS4 audio board, not the motor driver board.

If there's a problem with it cutting out at high speed, maybe they "rolled their own" power supply for the RS4 board and it has a problem. In that case, I'm not sure what you can do easily. 

Again, I don't have direct knowledge or any documentation on this locomotive, so these are only educated guesses.

I don't think a Lionel Railsounds board will work in a KLine engine, even though it uses Lionel's TMCC system. I have a customer's F7 with Railsounds, and the board is defective, (sound chip fell from the board!), I had a RS4 Lionel F3 board and it not only doesn't have sound, it won't start up and run. Putting the old board with the sound chip missing allows the loco to run using TMCC. Sheesh.

There must be some other issue specific to the swap you are attempting. I have swapped RS4 boards between K-Line and Lionel a number of times, including the Shay. K-Line bought the sound boards from Lionel. 

Luke

A couple of things you might want to check:

1. Are you sure that both the K-Line locomotive and the board you are trying to use are the same version of Railsounds? I don't know if RS 2.5 and RS 4.0 boards are interchangeable.

2. Lionel made some F3 AB sets with the power in the A unit and the sound in the B. The two units were not connected with a tether and they were separately addressed in TMCC. They would work either if you set both to the same ENG number or if you gave them different numbers and addressed them as a train. If your Lionel F3 board came out of those, it might not be compatible with a unit that has the TMCC and sound integrated on one motherboard. 

I don't know for sure if either of these situations would be incompatible, but it's worth a look. 

I'll try and take some pics later today and see what you think?

TRAINDOCTOR,

  Will you be at the ALLENTOWN SHOW on the 23rd?  I can take it down there and have you work on it when you get some spare time.

laz57

I have a number of K-Line engines, both diesel and steam.  They use the standard RS4 boards, and I've had them swapped many times in the past and they always worked.  I don't have a K-Line Shay, but I can't imagine it being different.

Thanks BOB on the speakers heads up.  I might have to try a different speaker and see what gives.

laz57

Interesting thought about the speaker, it would be nice if that was the only issue.

I've never seen an R2LC with male pins, I wonder why that one K-Line used such an oddball design?