Layout for Your Families' (grand) Kids

Good ideas Ed. And yes, there have been a good many posts here saying what you noted in your introduction: That DAD has a layout... the layout belongs to dad and he let's his son run his own train on DAD's layout. Which is fine, but it is not the same attachment and involvement as letting a child have HIS OWN layout, that he was allowed to make decisions on and that have HIS ideas incorporated into the layout.

Your listing is certainly a complete one, though I don't every single idea is necessary to be incorporated into one single layout. Like it may not be necessary to have a creeper for rolling under the layout. And rather than having a barrier around the layout - something I advise AGAINST - it'd be far better to use the Lionel 1033 transformer with its' two track voltage options.

The B-U setting of 0-11 volts is a good voltage to the track with kids at the throttle and will keep most trains from running so fast they fly off a curve. The other helper would be to slightly bank the outside curves. Even a slight bank - I've used cut popsicle sticks on the outside side of the tie, with 2 sticks for the tallest point of the bank and this has worked like a charm. Having the layout at a lower height with carpeting on the floor is also another safeguard.

And yes, put accessories like crossing gates and banjo signals on a secondary power, activated by button instead of track power. Two advantage: Less momentary power draw on the track (esp. when you're using 0-11 volts), and it helps keep the kids interest. And with multiple kids, one can run the train while the other activates signals.

On the same point, I mount Lionel mechanical whistles inside a building rather than in the tender. Same advantages as above.

Another idea I have utilized - if you can find them cheaply now - is to use the MRC Sound Stations. A push button controller activates a variety of sound effects. They're not too loud, so I've wired in some old boom box speakers which gives them more volume. Again same advantage of one kid can run the trains while another activates sounds. Not to mention a cost savings. I got mine for a bargain.

I've done traveling layouts built on hollow core doors. It's amazing how popular they are, not only with the kids but with the parents. I think it's because they can see a finished layout, that is not huge and will never be finished, and also won't cost a fortune. That last point is something the mom's express great interest in, along with questions of how I made scenery things and painted the people and buildings. That's a side of the hobby mom's can get involved with.

Another cost savings idea if you are using 027 track is to use the MPC-era designed manual switch, and use nylon fishline to activate the switch. A cost savings not to mention avoiding the disadvantages of the track powered 027 automatic switch tracks - unless you want to rewire them for auxiliary power.

Final thought - what appeals to kids versus adults are two entirely different things. I've been at shows with big modular layouts with TMCC and Legacy and all the new scale trains. The kids look and then they come back to MY layout. My layout is small, but it's fun and kid friendly. Lots of whimsical operating cars, etc.

Trust me... I've witnessed this many many times: Kids will watch the trains on the other layouts making all the sounds on their own. Then they come to my layout and I hand them the controller, and they get to make the sounds. They're not overly concerned that they're blowing the whistle for a diesel engine or activating the diesel rumble for a steam engine... it's about learning and having fun.

Then as they get older, they'll maybe become more interested in realism... that is unless the interest in trains has been totally voided by not allowing kids to be kids and to have fun.

And gee, I think that's the reason why most of us got interested in trains so many years ago. It's amazing how real many of us at that time thought those air whistles and bicycle-buzzer horns were. Of course back then, kids were encouraged to use their imaginations a little bit more than we let them today... THAT was the MAGIC of Lionel.

1. kids like throwing switches (turnouts)
2. kids like operating accessories and operating cars; have plenty, let them operate them
3. automate less: it's better to having a crossing gate controlled by a switch they have to remember to push, rather than triggered by the presence of a train. Remembering in time is part of the game.
4. Scenic realism seems not important to most of the kids. 
5. kids like to move vehicles, people and animals; let them
6. Kids like lights
7. Kids like things named after them and also given familiar names (towns, industrial and commercial buildings, schools, etc.

In addition to the above kids love tunnels and bridges along with crossing tracks. and buildings that light up for running in the dark

Jerry

Rich Melvin wrote an article a few years ago about a very nice fold away layout he built for his grandchildren. I don't have the run number handy but someone my chime in with it.

Brad

Ed, This is a great topic, and one very important to me (although from the viewpoint of a parent rather than grandparent). You've amassed a great list of thoughtful observations. I do have some thoughts on #6 though.

6. Imossible to run a train off the table (removable clear barriers, which also let you control the access of the little fingers of the littlest ones).

Over the years, I've read this a lot on the forum but it's a big mistake. For kids to develop a strong interest in this hobby, they need the same unrestricted access to trains we enjoyed as kids.

An inspirational, kid friendly layout is one where little fingers can freely explore and make mistakes... even big ones that cause the loco to smash into the floor. Things will break and that needs to be OK. This is how kids learn.

When a boxcar finds its way into the hands of a three year old who is perfectly content with rolling it around on the floor, it's time to grab a caboose and join him!

Face the facts. Model railroading including O Gauge is not a kids hobby. Go to any train shop or train meet and all you see is adults. The hobby, as always, will survive.

Rod Miller

Ok, for starters. The hobby won't die. There will always be somebody interested.

For a good layout.. hmm. Well this list is taking into consideration layouts on the floor and layouts on tables.

1. Motive power and electronics.  I find steam to be the motive power that draws all the kids in. This goes for postwar, prewar, and modern engines. TMCC, Legacy, DCS, LionChief, and Conventional are all great systems but I prefer and recommend TMCC and LionChief. Of course if your aiming for a postwar layout that's fine too.

2. Track. Choose tracks that are kid friendly such as Lionel Fastrack or MTH Realtrax. They are essentially the same thing and both work great. (But once again if you run postwar or prewar, the best is tubular track)

3. Scenery. Apparently a common thought is that kids don't bother with scenery. I disagree. It may be a good idea to put a few trees here and there like the Christmas ones that have wide bases. Just spray the tree plain green and paint the snow bottom brown or green. If your like me you'll just slap down a green grass mat and call it a day.

4. Accessories. One of the most important and eye catching details of a layout. I tend to use simple accessories such as the milk car and automatic gateman. They usually draw attention.

5. Rolling Stock. Run flashy, appealing freight cars like those in the post and prewar eras. MPC can also be included in this.

That's all I got.

Need to clarify "impossible to run a train off the table (removable clear barriers, which also let you control the access of the little fingers of the littlest ones)"

The table is against one wall; the other 3 sides are accessible. There also is a "Y" shaped  24" wide internal walkway, accessible from the bottom of the Y. Of all the open edges, walkway and outside, perhaps 2/5 have the barrier - only where running off the table is a risk.

The barrier is clear plastic, mostly 36" lengths, in a slot at the table edge. Plastic is 6" wide; about 4" shows up; 2" are in the slot.

3 of 4  kids (ages 9, 11, and 13) can and do remove barrier sections as they wish. Mostly they just reach over the 4" - their choice. A barrier section is frequently lifted (by one of the older 3) when an operating accessory is misbehaving or needs some help. Only the now-5-yr-old does not have the finger strength to remove a barrier section. There is a spot on the table where she likes to play with the figures; the barrier is usually removed there for her. But when she leaves I know that that is probably the only place that I have to really check for items on the tracks.

With the barrier, the kids run the trains as fast as they wish and do not worry about damaging the trains. Them not worrying is as important as me not worrying. (And the barrier has kept my wife and the kids' parents from worrying - also important.) The 11 yr old boy sometimes really lets a train run as fast as it can; no worry.  By the way, except for two corners in one loop, all the outside track is 42" or 54" diameter O-27. A derailment from speed only has occurred with a naked engine.

Great ideas! I think a set-up should be age specific or I guess a better way to say it would be 'ability' specific. We built an elaborate low-to-the-ground layout for wooden trains when the kids in my life (and their friends) were little. Then built a loop with two sidings on a standard table-top with folding legs featuring a Thomas set - with wonderful open Troublesome Trucks that held anything. And lots of misc. on the top of the layout - toys, buildings, cars, a grade crossing and gateman that were manually operated. Then they gravitated to the 'big' layout - atop a raised crawlspace where they loved to sit and play while the trains went around them... More manually operated accessories around the perimeter of the layout and the ability to run two trains at the same time (Thomas' pals James and Percy)...

When our two grandsons turned five, I built each a 4 X 8 layout in their garages complete with a Lionel starter set for each. In addition, I added accessories and additional cars for each over the past 4 years. Both enjoy their trains and have fun running my trains when visiting as well. In addition, my granddaughter, now 6 asked for and received her own "Pet Shop Express" Lionchief starter set that she brings and runs here when she visits. Her older brother tolerates her running her train on his layout at their house as well. Their friends see and run the trains when they visit, so I think the hobby has a really good future!

romiller49 posted:

Face the facts. Model railroading including O Gauge is not a kids hobby. Go to any train shop or train meet and all you see is adults. The hobby, as always, will survive.

Agree. Hardly have known any boys who did not have a Thomas & Friends or Imaginarium Express "layout." They migrated from there to sports and video game systems ... and now iPads ... not to model railroading.

What, me worry?

Pretty much all that has been said makes sense to me.  Kids like to be at the controls, so the layout should be simple to operate.  That doesn't mean just a loop of track however.  There are plenty of standard Lionel track plans designed to fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood, the most readily available piece of lumber on the market.  

Whether or not to run post war or newer production is up to you.  I think there are many items from both eras that will perform well for kids.  

In my mind, action, above all is necessary.  I would load the layout with operating cars and accessories.  Now before anyone says that Lionel accessories can be finicky, I agree.  However, kids and some of us adults need to be taught patience.  Whether you are building this layout for your own children or for your grandchildren, they should learn the importance of slow and steady.  If the kids your intended layout is for are too young, then a different approach will be in order.  However, if the kids are a bit older, lets say older than five years, then I believe they should have some hands on in the building and set-up.

My own grandchildren like to play with my garden railway trains because I have inserted some action that requires them to think.  

Great forum topic guys.  I have a very kid friendly 7ft x 9ft layout with operating accessories close to the edge of the layout for easy viewing and control by little ones using Lionel #90 Controllers mounted on the edge of the layout set in plexiglas strips with labels for each on the back of the plexi.  They control lights and other items from the buttons too, even if they don't read the labels, they have fun pushing them just to see what they do.  The older kids run the trains, but I have separated some controls from a central control panel on purpose to let the kids spread out around the layout and work whatever strikes their fancy.  

I highly recommend the use of color and a sense of whimsy when involving kids, for instance I have a zeppelin flying over the layout and Godzilla is wreaking havoc on one corner of the layout.  

Keep the ideas coming, there are some really good ones posted.

Chris Sheldon

Elaboration on two items in my original post: 

"10. Real operating mode needs to be able to get complicated enough to hold their interest over the years. For me this dictated a minimum size, and other aspects of the layout

13. kids like operating accessories and operating cars; have plenty, let them operate them."

I wasn't sure the general topic would generate discussion so I didn't get into the following detail earlier. 

Kids don't know about freight operations. Since they are central to railroading, I wanted to get realistic about this for the kids within the limits of the space available, and be able to keep it both realistic and able to evolve into more challenging operations as their skill and interest evolve. So:

• the layout has three locations/towns (A, B, and C for our discussion now.) and a freight yard. Each "town" has two "industrial" sidings, each siding with two "industries". So, math, 3x2x2=12 industrial locations. 
• each industrial location is one of a pair, so, 12/2, there are 6 2-location industries. Cattle and milk start at the farm siding. The industry mate for the farm cattle is the meat Processing plant. The industry mate for the farm milk is a dairy (which sends back the empties). Similarly the log loader at the forest/mine siding is paired with the sawmill/lumber yard. Coal comes from the same place to a delivery point near the Yard. Drums from the petroleum distributor go to a dealer location (which also sends back the empties). Merchandise (boxes) is exchanged between a large rail/truck distribution facility and a local freight station. So, cows, milk,, logs, coal, drums, and merchandise boxes
• With malice afore-thought, the way the 12 industry locations were distributed across the 6 industrial sidings, the two cars from any one siding go to two different sidings, one each in the two other towns. This makes obvious the need for train breakdown, car sorting, and train assembly in the yard. The need for and the function of the freight yard is obvious to the kids: mission accomplished. And lots of train and car movement.
• Early operation with the kids (with a few operating ends) convinced me of the value of the above arrangement, and to have both ends to each industry pair automated with an operating accessory. (some ends are just dumping spots - i.e., for coal.)
• So, there are no cars on the layout that do not carry one of the 6 freight types, and all the cars are operating cars.

The net of all this is there is lots of necessary accessory operation, the purpose of which is obvious. This can be made complicated enough to last for years. And all love doing this loading unloading work. Car movement is also interesting (and not arbitrary). 

Ed

Really great, thoughtful ideas here. I congratulate the common thread which looks to be "let them play WITH it." Whenever I went fishing with my youngsters, I just made sure They Caught Fish. When the snoopy pole went into the water, we scooped it out and practiced again. Give them a plan B, show them how to put the train back on the tracks, cause when you go too fast, it tips over..

And when he runs the new MTH Reefer on the carpet, "Grab the caboose and join him"

Great Line. Super Topic, Thanks to all ya'lls support 

romiller49 posted:

Face the facts. Model railroading including O Gauge is not a kids hobby. Go to any train shop or train meet and all you see is adults. The hobby, as always, will survive.

Rod Miller

Absolutely TRUE!!!   Kids today can not AFFORD to get into O scale.  Its' just too spendy!!!  A new Loco is $300-$1500, cars are $50 each, add in track, transformers, scenic, ect and you have the price of a good car wrapped up in it! 

I think most kids see it as whimsical fun, but prefer to invest the $$ into a PC or tablet or living life. 

For myself, it took many years to become $$$$ available to get some nice running equipment and a layout.

I do share my layout with the kids.   They run Chessie engines on their "Kitty Kat Train" and have a blast doing so...

I will disagree with some things. I do believe that it is a matter of trains being seen as childish with the current generation, and they refuse to see otherwise until they see them running themselves beyond the initial "train set" on the floor. This is opposed to the view that seems to be held here that they cannot afford it; rather, a mixture of possibly being seen as a social outcast, plus a poor introduction and/or overprotective parents tend to be what keeps them out.

I will second the idea of whimsy that most people see as a good idea, and recommend having some inexpensive tinplate around for amusement and awe factors in addition to what I expect will be postwar and MPC. On that same note, you can't go wrong with a mixture of classic accessories and cars that interact,  some rudimentary (display like) scenery, and the capacity to run many (3+) trains at once. I dunno if those will be possible for you, but keeping some of the history in it for them might not be a bad idea.

Bermuda Ken posted:

romiller49 posted:

Face the facts. Model railroading including O Gauge is not a kids hobby. Go to any train shop or train meet and all you see is adults. The hobby, as always, will survive.

Rod Miller

Absolutely TRUE!!!   Kids today can not AFFORD to get into O scale.  Its' just too spendy!!!  A new Loco is $300-$1500, cars are $50 each, add in track, transformers, scenic, ect and you have the price of a good car wrapped up in it! 

I think most kids see it as whimsical fun, but prefer to invest the $$ into a PC or tablet or living life. 

For myself, it took many years to become $$$$ available to get some nice running equipment and a layout.

I do share my layout with the kids.   They run Chessie engines on their "Kitty Kat Train" and have a blast doing so...

As a teenager who has been in the hobby for 9 years, I will say that yes, O SCALE is out of reach of the younger generations. O GAUGE, however, is not; I have managed to create a rather large layout and collection through a combination of letting family know what my interests were (grandad is a hoarder on the search for "new" things, and great grandparents frequent garage sales) and keeping an eye out for the deals at the shows and on the internet. Thanks to that, I have a mixture of classic tinplate and postwar/MPC Lionel that run on a 8'x12' layout in the rafters above the garage that I am genuinely proud of. I do tend to sell or give away the less interesting pieces as time goes by, and do my best to do so where it will do the most good (younger siblings of friends, to give an example) for bringing others into the hobby. Most of us aren't nit picky, we do fine imagineering our roads when the interest is started right (and society isn't a worry).

There are three different kids groups, all important, being addressed in the comments:

1. kids/teenagers functioning solo or only with age peers (how most of us started)
2. kid(s) and involved parent(s)
3. grandkids with grandparents driving the effort.

The groups have different advantages and challenges. The original post (and many or most of the replies) was aimed at the third group. As described at the top of the original post, group 3 probably has the advantages of boxes of old gear, more money available, more time on the part of the grandparent. But the disadvantages of limited time with the grandkid(s) unless they live next door, the peer coolness of things other than trains, etc.. 

All comments have been interesting and helpful. One that was particularly striking was creating a satellite (my term - not the respondent's) layout at the kids home - with the real layout still at grandpa's. At home (rather than at grandpa's place) the kids have much more time to mess around, on their own, when they feel like it, drill holes, try wiring, try different track layouts, mess with scenery, plaster, paint, etc. Like we started. 

I suspect, as is true in my case, most grandpas have plenty of surplus and working gear to mostly supply what's needed. The challenge is space at the kids' home; I'm now negotiating this with my daughter and son in law. I've suggested a table (4X12) that operates resting on a carpet-ball table (that is 2x12, folds up) I built them. When not in use, the train table would go directly up to the ceiling. With 1 ft spacers so the table can remain as is and buildings & such not get crushed.

A satellite layout at their home would allow the kids to involve their friends, very important. No problem taking the friends to grandpas once the friend is interested. A satellite layout at their home will also enable roping in mom and dad. (When the kids come to our place, they usually stay overnight but their parents just provide some of the transportation, This form of kids visit allows the parents to get other things done or take a break from the 4 kids.)

Ed

Great thread. Once I saw this flatcar with excavator at Menards I had to order one for

carpet central.  My son is a landscaper and has heavy equipment, my 4 year old grandson,loves

to ride in it.  The excavator also has lights and sounds.,it also so happens all my rolling stock is 

Pennsylvania, so it is also a fit.  My Carpet Central is not much by anyone's standards, wife factor setup in the living room. But this i believe will add to grandsons enjoyment. It has only been set up since January, once I decided that HO was just not all that much fun. When I was a kid, I had American Flyer, but Lionchief has swayed me to the 3 rail system. I know Lionel is now making american flyer lionchief sets, but figured 3 rail is much more varied as to what you can buy. Besides that I get a free box truck.

OldMike

https://www.menards.com/main/h.../p-1453088261980.htm

I think the Lionchief (or any brand) with Bluetooth may be the key to the castle, so to speak. My little visitors all have an IPhone, Ipad or such device. They are always on it.

I said hi to one of them and it startled him because it wasn't coming from the screen. Ha

GVDobler posted:

I think the Lionchief (or any brand) with Bluetooth may be the key to the castle, so to speak. My little visitors all have an IPhone, Ipad or such device. They are always on it.

I said hi to one of them and it startled him because it wasn't coming from the screen. Ha

Agree. My youngest (10) loves her LC Thomas and our LC+ Mikado. Simply to operate, but SHE and her friends operate. They don't like being tethered to the transformer for conventional. Thinking I need to upgrade her WBB Girls Engine with ERR components based on this lesson rather than leave it conventional. 

raising4daughters posted:

GVDobler posted:

I think the Lionchief (or any brand) with Bluetooth may be the key to the castle, so to speak. My little visitors all have an IPhone, Ipad or such device. They are always on it.

I said hi to one of them and it startled him because it wasn't coming from the screen. Ha

Agree. My youngest (10) loves her LC Thomas and our LC+ Mikado. Simply to operate, but SHE and her friends operate. They don't like being tethered to the transformer for conventional. Thinking I need to upgrade her WBB Girls Engine with ERR components based on this lesson rather than leave it conventional. 

My kids (4&2) are pro's with the simple lionchief stuff. Throttle, horn, bell, and announcement all right there with big buttons. I limit track voltage to about 40% so the speeds don't get too crazy. The 4 year old understand how the switches work to an extent. Consider a starter lionchief set with two wheel trucks as they are much easier for the kids to put on the track without shorting the layout and the couplers are static so it eliminates that complexity as well. Then they can grow into the more complicated hardware.

As already mentioned, buttons are king. The more accessories that light up, move, or make sound the better. 

Thanks for this timely thread. I'm building an 8 x 11 bedroom layout now and am 80% complete with it and the around-the-ceiling layout. 3 of my kids are 20-25 and the other is 10, so I figure this will be more for grandchildren than children.

I think I'm going to rip out some of the insulated tracks and put in push buttons for things like the gateman and crossing gates. 

I also remember loving to play with my granfather's gang car because I could change its direction by letting it hit my hand.

I really have to hand it to Lionel with the Lionchief remote. Yesterday my 1 1/2 year old grand daughter was able to operate a train on carpet central.  They have a winner here,especially if the engines will hold up over the years.

oldmike

My son is three. Will turn four this summer. He wasn't interested in building the table. Here are the things he was interested in (and my appreciation for people on this forum for clueing me in on many of them).

1. Lights. I have a bunch of accessories that light up and/or flash. Son loves to "night run" the trains, which involves having all the accessories on, and then turning off the lights in the workshop. 

2. A loading dock and plenty of gondolas and hoppers in the train's consist. Other than the engine/tender, and caboose, the consist of my son's LC Pennsy Flyer is comprised of gondolas, hoppers, and ore cars. A couple were purchased from K-Line or Lionel complete with LCL's or crates, but I then went to Hobby Lobby and purchased items that - while much larger than scale - would work with his toddler fingers and that he could load/unload with ease. Things like these miniature sacks (which in scale are something like 13 feet long). Honestly, most of the time is my son loading a gondola, doing one lap on the 4x8 layout, stopping it, unloading, and repeating.

3. Vehicles. When the train is doing it's lap around the track, my son is playing with the bus or trucks on the layout. I know he's waiting for the day I'm not watching and he can see if the truck or train would win in a collision, but so far it hasn't happened. If there was anything I wish I had done, it would be perhaps to expand the layout table a bit to allow trucks to run outside of the track. Right now space is tight, but I'll probably do this sooner rather than later, because it's something he really likes to do.

4. Lionchief (Lionchief Plus). Kids are able to figure this out pretty easily. I have three LC engines, and one LC+ engine. I have conventional as well, but they don't see much run time because the LC/LC+ system is so easy to control.

My timing is great. Son I going to pick this up today. My Menards one should arrive shortly.

Oldmike

Love this thread!  The 9.5'x13.5' layout I'm planning will be chock full of accessories for a 5 YO boy and 8 YO girl.  It'll begin conventional with outer two loops (one elevated 7-8") for Daddy's nicer trains but inner loop for yards (Inglenook), industry operations etc.  Received my final PW accessories today - ice station, cattle car and forklift (pics attached).  Hope they work but if not kids will help with repairs.  Main industry is lumber:  will have an On30 gauge route between two mountains for logging, then regular O gauge cars for log unloader, MTH/RK sawmill (that also loads flatcars with cut lumber), forklift station for unloading lumber and finally the pièce de résistance - Vetter Door and Sash Company.  May need a cabinet shop.  Daughter is crazy about horses (she is equestrian) so on the lookout for Churchill Downs or Bryer Horse car and corral.  There will be 1:12 scale Bryer horses all around my layout I suspect.

I also just received 6 operating cars related to space/television/satellite and the obligatory exploding bunkers and car (pic attached) in various stages of disrepair.  I'll need help when that time comes.  Also have a NIB Lionel Locomotive Backshop that may need rewiring to run off switches.

Now going only conventional could be an issue for them.  So I'm going to experiment with a BlueRail board and see how I can incorporate that into a GP9 or other diesel I have with operating couplers.   If isolated from the tracks it should work fine for the kids to operate with an iPad on battery.  

Lots to do.  Should have two more tables built over the weekend then just need to build a swing out door to allow for loop running.  My city will be the last thing I worry about but it'll have a back-and-forth street trolley.  

Something that seems to be missing is that it doesn't have to be ON track, have a combination of Brio/wind-up and simple switchers at the beginning for them to run and play with, I built a simple oval with a central siding for an industrial or passenger station terminus, and let my grandkids play with ALL of the trains on the Brio, floor or simple layout, when they really are interested, I have a Chuggington train that I put on my Overhead layout that they run and watch, often getting dizzy circling to keep it in sight.

My layout is totally command controlled, yet holds their interest when they are with me, we share duties, the toddlers blow the whistles and turn on the culvert loaders and unloaders. They are still very young, but the nephews and neighbor kids all have fun when visiting. Don't get wrapped around the axle on what is the perfect layout, build a simple under the bed layout and let them grow into the larger layouts. As for building, if you have interesting tasks and ideas, i.e.; a farm, a playground, a parking lot with cars, trucks and motion which stimulates their imagination, you nurture their play and encourage them to enjoy whatever form it takes. I find that under 4 last 15 minutes before on to the next THING, as they grow older, have a project on the big layout planned when they visit, have them help complete it, then play with the finished area if possible, at least having a task along with fun adds to life lessons which are a part of this hobby.

It is ONLY expensive when you have to have the latest and greatest of what is offered, a simple kid friendly layout can be built with trains they can play, wreck and revive for under $200 and have play value beyond belief. Have a crane, a coal loader (397 is a great kid pleaser, especially if flinging coal everywhere) and an industrial section with duplo or lego blocks where they BUILD the load for today, branch out into more complex things as they age and mature, but NEVER forget it is ok to be a kid, a Grandparent should have that inner kid in him, and show the grandkids it is ok to keep some of the FUN in life even as we grow old. Trains have been, and might ALWAYS be, the catalyst your grandkids, family and neighbors use to find their passion in life. There is NO wrong way, as long as you show them your wanting time to play and share in fun activities.

If your grandkids are old enough, schedule an operating session where you build a train, deliver the goods, and show them that commerce happens in almost everything they see on a daily basis, for me, this is the biggest payoff with teens I share my layout with, they want to learn if it is fun, and find that it doesn't have to be a PlayStation or electronic game to be fun.

I'm the guy who started this thread. Great comments. 

Lots of comments about Lionel Chiefs with their remotes. I'm just starting, with 2 (!) so two kids can be running at the same time. Great first impression of the impact on the kids, will report back with results in a month or two.

I have another related thread going.  It has a lively discussion going about realistic freight operations for kids, starting with the layout I described at the top of this forum. FYI. It is "Real Freight: Anybody using operating cars, accessories, multiple locations & a yard for realistic freight operations?" It's in the Layout and Buildings Forums group, Track Plans and Layout Design subarea.

Ed 

If you want the model train hobby to stick you should get those kids from say 8 to 14 years and up to be involved and help design and build the layout.  Kids that age should be able to figure out a track plan and do much of the construction.  That way they will learn building and repair skills, tool skills and be more interested in their layout, verses your layout.

Charlie

Ed M posted:

7:  everything must run correctly and reliably (big conflict with old gear)

 

Gotta take issue here:  This characteristic describes my Marx, PW Lionel, and MPC, but NOT new Lionel (at least).

Give 'em some older stuff (sure, service it) and stop worrying about the exorbitant, rapacious price tags on the LC and Legacy stuff.  If it wrecks, it will likely survive; if not, less loss in $$$.

BTW, there is no law that says you must throw phones, tablets, and other gadgetry at kids from the cradle.  If they are absorbed by it, it is because YOU permitted it.  You don't want them addicted in that manner, don't permit it.  You permit it, don't complain about it.

If I where a grand dad I would get an lionel set and add a few boxcars.Then get a mth steam locomotive a few cars.A plasticvile buildings maybe a few autos.As to a layout I go with the 2 4X8 boards.I would keep kind of low to the floor.Oh year I would also add a set of lincoln logs.That is sure to add to the fun.

palallin posted:

Ed M posted:

7:  everything must run correctly and reliably (big conflict with old gear)

 

Gotta take issue here:  This characteristic describes my Marx, PW Lionel, and MPC, but NOT new Lionel (at least).

Give 'em some older stuff (sure, service it) and stop worrying about the exorbitant, rapacious price tags on the LC and Legacy stuff.  If it wrecks, it will likely survive; if not, less loss in $$$.

BTW, there is no law that says you must throw phones, tablets, and other gadgetry at kids from the cradle.  If they are absorbed by it, it is because YOU permitted it.  You don't want them addicted in that manner, don't permit it.  You permit it, don't complain about it.

That is a pretty good idea lots of old lionel and early mth railking.I still have an early railking erie berkshire.Still runs and pulls a fare sized train.

More great ideas!

My challenge, however,  which the title of this string captures, relates to grandkids vs kids:

• As a grandparent, you don't control whether they have phones, iPads or the like. The parents do. And their peers have them. So the presence of and interest in those items and the attendant apps/games is a given.
• Geography and time. My grandkids live 45 minutes away (and we see them frequently). This is a lot better than them living across the country, but it is a major constraint relative to the trains. In contrast, with my son and our trains then, if we had a project going we could mess with it almost daily, and put in lots of hours. With the grandkids, even when they stay overnight, they may not be over again for 3 weeks. I have involved them in several construction projects, but they have to be projects that start and complete in a single visit. Operations seem to be a better target for them. 

Ed

I built this 16 x 16 layout with the Grandkids in mind.  Can operate four trains at once from 031 to 072.  Two main reverse loops.  All switches are command controlled.  All Lionel operating accessories are located on the outside and are push button controlled (as opposed to CC).  Conventional, TMCC, Legacy, Lion Chief all operate fine on it.  They've had a ball running trains, loading, unloading, etc.

Great layout! Strongly agree on push button accessory controls, at the accessory, which is near the edge of the layout.